Recommended network components

[springwood64]

Would it be worth using Ubiquity HD as another WI Fi network to feed my Kallas, ie keep the Virgin Hub as a router.

I presume I would just connect one of the Ubiquity HD units to the virgin Hub with an Cat 6 cable.

I am using it in this way. I have a PlusNet modem/router that is just being used as the modem, a TP-LINK router that does all the gateway and wifi duties for the household, and then two Amplifi HD units providing a mesh to which just Kalla and the iPad mini attaches. One Amplifi HD connects to my TP-LINK Router/Gateway, the other connects as another Mesh point, offering a "Hifi" wireless access point to which only my iPad connects.

[u252agz]

Thanks for that Pete

I presume you are happy with the Ubiquiti and it has been a good improvement in musicality.

I might try this with one of the Kallas and then if happy with it, purchase another HD for the second one.

[springwood64]

Thanks for that Pete

I presume you are happy with the Ubiquiti and it has been a good improvement in musicality.

Yes on both counts

[u252agz]

I'd like to mention that Ubiquity AmpliFi HD mesh routers are now back in stock at many retailers in Sweden.

I highly recommend this unit, because not only is it the best sounding router we've tried so far (regardless of which streamer you are using, it just sounds very musical), but the WiFi it provides has also proven flawless. I've never had a router that was this simple to install and free of trouble. Never had to restart them, never upgraded the firmware, they just work.

I’ve now acquired two of the Amplify HD units and set them up as a mesh network , still using my Virgin HUB 3. as the router.

Wow - big improvement from the BT mesh units , and I mean big. I was always very happy with the BT mesh unit connected to Kalla/ Giella Pi and JBL 308 Mk1 s , but this takes the music to another level.All aspects from musicality to Hi Fi sound are better.

As expected Kalla now sounds even more amazing with Giella Pi and my Grado rS2e headphones - totally addictive.

The only downside is that the range of the AmplifyHD unit is not that much better than the
BT mesh units, and only the upstairs Kalla can therefore be connected .

The signal drops to moderate in the main room downstairs ( and this only in the part of the room far away from Kalla).

I will need at least a third HD unit ( hopefully no more than that ) but can’t wait to hear Kalla with my monos snd 242s.

Thanks to Fredrik for reminding of us all of these units and thanks to forum members for advice and sending over the units.

[Whatsmynaim]

Is Amplify HD still the best option?

Or is it the more recently discovered router TP-link Archer MR200? The one that doesn't need to be connected to a switch to perform well. A switch even degrades its performance.

[tokenbrit]

I’ve now acquired two of the Amplify HD units and set them up as a mesh network , still using my Virgin HUB 3. as the router.

Wow - big improvement from the BT mesh units , and I mean big...

So, your Virgin Hub is still the WiFi & Internet connection for the family, and services other than to the Kallas? I take it you didn't have any problem configuring the AmpliFi units and HUB 3 to play nice together?

I'm using an Apple Express as WiFi client of my main router. The Apple provides the Ethernet port for Kalla via a 308T switch... Based on your report, I'm considering trying a couple of AmpliFi HDs for possible (likely?) improvement as long as HD (& main router) configs are straightforward.

I'd end up with: Internet - hub - router - HD ~ HD - switch - Kalla (I hope that's not counter-productively complicated*)

* hub is in bridge mode; router is for work... so they're non-negotiable - HDs would need to play nice within the setup

[lejonklou]

Is Amplify HD still the best option?

Or is it the more recently discovered router TP-link Archer MR200? The one that doesn't need to be connected to a switch to perform well. A switch even degrades its performance.

I intend to find that out!

In my new lab I have an Archer MR200. I also have two Amplifi HD and several switches.

I installed the music system two days ago. Yesterday we did a rough tuning of speaker positions and compared a couple of rugs (the gain in musical performance you can get by optimising the rug between you and the system can be shocking). More to do later but it sounds good already.

I’m going to compare:
Archer MR200 to Källa, with
Archer MR200 to first Amplifi, second Amplifi to switch to Källa

Will post clips!

[Hermann]

[...]

The only downside is that the range of the AmplifyHD unit is not that much better than the
BT mesh units, and only the upstairs Kalla can therefore be connected .

The signal drops to moderate in the main room downstairs ( and this only in the part of the room far away from Kalla).

I will need at least a third HD unit ( hopefully no more than that ) but can’t wait to hear Kalla with my monos snd 242s.
[...]

Congratulations on the Amplfi HD. The improvement is actually very big.

Regarding the third Amplify HD (AHD), my experience is that it has no influence on the sound. My original audio-only network consisted of three AHDs, the first of which was connected via LAN. However, the stream interruptions were too great. With two AHD the sound didn't change. The first AHD currently receives the signal via Lan from an AVM repeater, which is much more stable than the AHD. As an example, in the 5GHz network the AVM receives up to 550Mb/s, the AHD was not able to set up a stable network in the band. There is a 20cm thick concrete ceiling between the first and second AHD and the signal has to pass through two approximately 50cm stone walls. Since the new setup the signal has been stable.

Perhaps it is enough to build a stable network in front of the first AHD, which could consist of other components.

[u252agz]

I’ve now acquired two of the Amplify HD units and set them up as a mesh network , still using my Virgin HUB 3. as the router.

Wow - big improvement from the BT mesh units , and I mean big...

So, your Virgin Hub is still the WiFi & Internet connection for the family, and services other than to the Kallas? I take it you didn't have any problem configuring the AmpliFi units and HUB 3 to play nice together?

Yes - the virgin HUb 3.0 has remained as the router and its own WiFi has to be used for my Sky boxes ( sky is very fussy with WiFi providers) .

I then have the BT mesh units connected to the router to set up the main second WiFi network for the whole house ( 6 units) - until now both Kallas have used the Ethernet on the BT mesh units.

The first Amplify HD just connects to the Virgin Hub ( one of its 4 Ethernet sockets) and Sets up its own wi fi mesh. Very easy to set up ( I reset my units to factory setting as they were donated to me by a forum member) .

The second HD unit ( after resetting) then automatically picked up the Amplify wi fi signal and acts as a mesh, I then just removed the BJC cat 6 cable from the BT unit and connected to the second Amplfy unit. Other end is to the 108T / and then 108T goes to Kalla.

The only thing that tripped me up is that I initially forgot to change the wi fi on my I phone 11 to Amplify!

Anyway, easy to do and a big improvement in musicality - the sort of fundamental improvement one sees early in the digital chain and definitely worthwhile.

The range is not what I was hoping for though and, only the room next to the router upstairs ( through 30cm solid) brick wall receives a good enough signal for the second AMPLIFI unit. The second Kalla is downstairs and at the back of the house and the signal is only moderate/ bad in that room.

[Hermann]

I had been thinking about laying a 30m long LAN cable for a long time, but with the repeaters I get a very stable WiFi network. If it is also possible to set the channel in the 5GHz range, as Amplifi offers, interference from other networks is as far as possible excluded.

The Amplifi HD offered an update to 4.0.3 today. The devices obviously handle the order themselves, because a single router cannot be selected. The update starts with the last one and after about 2-3 minutes with the first one. In total it took about 6 minutes. The self-selected setup is not changed. I don't hear any difference to version 4.0.2 in terms of musicality.

Here are the changes:

v4.0.3 (13 May 24)

• Open SSL update

• Updated timezone for some countries

• Speedtest stability improvements

• Updated WiFi client icon library

[ThomasOK]

The Ubiquiti AmpliFi HD units still appear to be unavailable in the US except used or at outrageous prices. However, in checking on them I found that Ubiquiti has some other products that might suit and it would be interesting to know if they sound as good, worse or better.

The one that is part of the AmpliFi series, and appears to be the replacement for the AmpliFi HD is the AmpliFi Alien series. This is supposed to be a much more powerful unit with WiFi 6 and the ability to support 16 streams (which they claim is unique in the world to this router). Also interesting for our usage is that the Alien MeshPoint has a Gigabit Ethernet port (the router has 1 WAN port and 4 LAN ports as on the AmpliFi HD). This means you wouldn't need two of the routers but instead a Alien router and MeshPoint would cover it for our use with a Källa. They have a package that includes an Alien Router and MeshPoint with a retail of $379 in the US. This isn't much more than 2 AmpliFi HD routers.

They also have a number of new units in their other series. These include U6 and U7 units designed for ceiling or wall mount that are WiFi 6 or 7. There is also a DreamRouter in a WiFi 6 version with the 1 + 4 Ethernet ports on the back but Ubiquiti shows that as out of stock so, of course, everyone with them in stock is trying to get a lot more than the $199 retail price. The U6 and U7 WiFi units all have a single Ethernet port. The U6 units are between $129 and $179 except for the enterprise version and the U7 Pro and Pro Wall are $189 and $199. As one of the U6 units is called the U6 Mesh it may be that the other units don't make up a mesh network like the HD and Alien units do.

I am not into advanced networks so I can't say what advantages or disadvantages these would have for the types of networks we are using. I just found it interesting that Ubiquiti has these other options and wondered if anyone has checked them out?

[knoslean]

I have been using the AmpliFi Alien Router with one Alien MeshPoint for a few months now. I connected the mesh thing to the Netgear GS108T v3 and then to Källa. Can´t detect any difference with/without the Netgear but let it sit in between anyway. Blue Jeans cables are used. Everything have worked out stable and flawless technical wise. Sound? Good. But I have not experimented a lot with this, just noting that this is much better than a D-link G415 router, and better than old Technicolor router I tested for some time.

[Hermann]

Considering the cost of used Amplifi HDs, the price for the Alien router with Meshpoint is not very lucrative. The market in Germany is asking for this combination starting at EUR 474. This means that almost 5 used Amplifi HDs are possible, or 3 new devices, which are currently available from around EUR 135.

As far as I know, the APs require PoE, which requires a LAN cable. I now appreciate the advantage of a stable WiFi network, because with this setup the influence of network cables is reduced.

Nevertheless, a comparison would be interesting, even if I have no idea that it could be any better.

[lejonklou]

Is Amplify HD still the best option?

Or is it the more recently discovered router TP-link Archer MR200? The one that doesn't need to be connected to a switch to perform well. A switch even degrades its performance.

I have found a new router that sounds really good:

Zyxel FWA505

This is a 5G router that takes a micro SIM card (not nano SIM, so you might need an adapter). In common with all previously tested 3G/4G/5G routers, it sounds worse when a switch is added in between it and Källa.

My initial impression is that FWA505 is a little more musical than Archer MR200. It certainly has incredible data speed potential: I got 286 Mbps in download speed a minute after having switched it on.

My next test will be to see whether the music benefits from adding two Ubiquity Amplifi HD and a switch to this router. Like this:

* More than 5 m away from the HiFi: FWA505 handling 5G reception with WiFi being switched off, connected with a 8.5 feet BJC cable to the first Amplifi HD (providing WiFi).
* Next to the HiFi: Second Amplifi HD connected to switch, switch connected to Källa. (Confirm again that the switch has a positive musical impact).

Stay tuned!

[Whatsmynaim]

Thanks Fredrik for the effort doing all these tests! I will absolutely stay tuned.

[ThomasOK]

Considering the cost of used Amplifi HDs, the price for the Alien router with Meshpoint is not very lucrative. The market in Germany is asking for this combination starting at EUR 474. This means that almost 5 used Amplifi HDs are possible, or 3 new devices, which are currently available from around EUR 135.

As far as I know, the APs require PoE, which requires a LAN cable. I now appreciate the advantage of a stable WiFi network, because with this setup the influence of network cables is reduced.

Nevertheless, a comparison would be interesting, even if I have no idea that it could be any better.

Just a little followup with more information on this. For starters it appears pricing and availability are much different in the US that overseas. The price for the Alien router is $199 and of the combo of router and mesh point is $379, both from the Ubiquiti store (although I note higher prices in some stores so this may be a relatively new price). This compares with a retail price for the AmplifiHD of $149, however this is unavailable in the US from any of the big sellers or the manufacturer.

As to usability there are a couple of things to note. One is that the mesh point does not require Power over Ethernet. It has a power connector and cable included as well as a single 1Gb Ethernet port, which makes it well suited to our purposes. They have a claimed WiFi range of twice the AmplifiHD and a speed over four times when using multiple units. However, there are a couple of significant limitations to the mesh point. One is that they are not available separately so you can't use additional units to extend the network. The other is that the mesh point ONLY works with the router it is packaged with. If your router goes south the mesh point becomes a doorstop. On the other hand multiple routers can be connected together with no such restrictions. Considering the price of $379 for the two piece kit vs. $398 for two routers it seems obvious which is the best way to go. I don't really have the time to investigate further but I might have to do so at some point. In the meantime I hope this is helpful information.

[Sopper]

You can contact customer service to “undo” the connection between router and mesh point
They will provide instructions and “firmware”

[lejonklou]

I have found a new router that sounds really good:

Zyxel FWA505

This is a 5G router that takes a micro SIM card (not nano SIM, so you might need an adapter). In common with all previously tested 3G/4G/5G routers, it sounds worse when a switch is added in between it and Källa.

My initial impression is that FWA505 is a little more musical than Archer MR200. It certainly has incredible data speed potential: I got 286 Mbps in download speed a minute after having switched it on.

My next test will be to see whether the music benefits from adding two Ubiquity Amplifi HD and a switch to this router. Like this:

* More than 5 m away from the HiFi: FWA505 handling 5G reception with WiFi being switched off, connected with a 8.5 feet BJC cable to the first Amplifi HD (providing WiFi).
* Next to the HiFi: Second Amplifi HD connected to switch, switch connected to Källa. (Confirm again that the switch has a positive musical impact).

Stay tuned!

Tests have been completed!

The Zyxel FWA505 has proven itself these last weeks. Clearly better musically than the TP-Link Archer MR200. Its web interface isn't great, for instance it doesn't always show the network address of Källa, despite it being connected with a cable directly to FWA505. To find its address I've had to use the app 'Fing' (available for free on Apple's App Store), which works splendidly. But otherwise the FWA505 has worked flawlessly and needed no maintenance.

I added the first Ubiquity Amplifi HD to the FWA505 and placed them both more than 5 m away from the HiFi system (8.5 feet BJC CAT 6a from port 1 on the FWA505 to the WAN port on Amplifi HD). Text on BJC running towards the Amplifi. This 5 m distance is important for the mesh system to work well. Your control point by the HiFi will always connect to the second Amplifi, which does sound a little bit better than if you move the control point to the first Amplifi.

Then I put the second Amplifi HD close to the HiFi system, connected an 8.5 feet BJC from port 2 on Amplifi to port 7 on a Netgear GS-108T switch and another 8.5 feet BJC from port 8 on the switch to Källa. Text on both BJC running towards Källa. The switch and Amplifi are powered from a separate power strip (plugged into the wall outlet next to the power strip feeding the HiFi) with the switch in the first outlet on the strip and Amplifi in the second. Haven't yet compared the mains phase (which way you orient the mains adapter in the strip) on the Amplifi, but have done it on the switch.

Clearly better music with these two Amplifi's than running a cable directly from FWA505 to Källa! More organic and natural sounding, easier to understand and get drawn in, just more music! Wow!

Removing the switch in between the second Amplifi and Källa is a smaller difference. A bit sharper and more direct without, more gentle and easily flowing with. I prefer with the switch in place.

Disabling the 2.4 and 5 GHz WiFi on FWA505 brings a nice musical improvement as well. As WiFi is provided by the two Amplifi's, the WiFi from FWA505 is not needed. Interestingly having the WiFi activated on FWA505 seems to weigh down the music, it feels darker and more gritty. Surprising difference!

I am so happy with these changes, the music in the lab has improved a lot! 😃

[matthias]

Clearly better music with these two Amplifi's than running a cable directly from FWA505 to Källa! More organic and natural sounding, easier to understand and get drawn in, just more music! Wow!

Thank you Fredrik,
would you say music via a 5G router is superior to a router with an earthbound connection (cable, fiber)?

[lejonklou]

Thank you Fredrik,
would you say music via a 5G router is superior to a router with an earthbound connection (cable, fiber)?

I have no idea about that.

It is however clear that also when using a separate mesh unit for Källa, the main router that is now two steps away from Källa still has an effect on the final result.

[Hermann]

Considering the cost of used Amplifi HDs, the price for the Alien router with Meshpoint is not very lucrative. The market in Germany is asking for this combination starting at EUR 474. This means that almost 5 used Amplifi HDs are possible, or 3 new devices, which are currently available from around EUR 135.

As far as I know, the APs require PoE, which requires a LAN cable. I now appreciate the advantage of a stable WiFi network, because with this setup the influence of network cables is reduced.

Nevertheless, a comparison would be interesting, even if I have no idea that it could be any better.

Just a little followup with more information on this. For starters it appears pricing and availability are much different in the US that overseas. The price for the Alien router is $199 and of the combo of router and mesh point is $379, both from the Ubiquiti store (although I note higher prices in some stores so this may be a relatively new price). This compares with a retail price for the AmplifiHD of $149, however this is unavailable in the US from any of the big sellers or the manufacturer.

As to usability there are a couple of things to note. One is that the mesh point does not require Power over Ethernet. It has a power connector and cable included as well as a single 1Gb Ethernet port, which makes it well suited to our purposes. They have a claimed WiFi range of twice the AmplifiHD and a speed over four times when using multiple units. However, there are a couple of significant limitations to the mesh point. One is that they are not available separately so you can't use additional units to extend the network. The other is that the mesh point ONLY works with the router it is packaged with. If your router goes south the mesh point becomes a doorstop. On the other hand multiple routers can be connected together with no such restrictions. Considering the price of $379 for the two piece kit vs. $398 for two routers it seems obvious which is the best way to go. I don't really have the time to investigate further but I might have to do so at some point. In the meantime I hope this is helpful information.

At some point I will compare Amplifi HD vs Alien Router. At the moment the Alien Routers are quite cheap in good old Germany. The current price is 262 EUR. As soon as the price drops further or the used market gives different amounts, they will be compared.

[lejonklou]

Ubiquity Alien router + mesh point is currently being tested.

Very promising so far!

[matthias]

BTW, Ubiquiti released their own audio devices:
https://ui.com/eu/en/new-integrations/premium-audio