Recommended control points

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jajo
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by jajo »

Defender wrote: 2023-03-26 09:00 not related to the topic before but I just thought if it is possible to use an Apple TV as control point for Källa and Spotify- it seems to have Airplay and can send and receive. I know it would be less convenient because you need to switch on the TV for having a display but than you can use a phone to change the playlist.
Would be an cheap controll point to start with if that works.
Apple TV works great as a control point. That is how we all watch TV/movies with our Källa. It sounds absolutely great.

I will test my Apple TV 4K 32GB with the Spotify client for tvOS and report back how well it performs comparing to my 14 Pro Max.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by Defender »

That is great jajo and much appreciated- I meanwhile saw in earlier posts in this thread what you stated. It could probably be a good solution for high quality background music without draining your phone/ipad battery and at if there is a musical advantage for the phone or ipad mini to just use that for more serious listening sessions.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by lejonklou »

Excellent jajo! I’ve been curious about the Spotify app on Apple TV, but still haven’t tested it.

Apple TV to Källa is dangerous (time wise). For me it has transformed rather cheesy TV series into fascinating storytelling. Background music really grips us and the dialogue is much more intense. Tested a range of DACs for the Apple TV before but wasn’t convinced by any of them. Källa is something completely different.

Unlike iPad, Apple TV never drops Källa as the preferred output, so each time we switch on the TV, the sound comes through without the need to activate anything. It’s just automatic. The only time it’s dropped Källa is when it’s done a firmware upgrade. And those don’t come often.

I recommend connecting the Apple TV to the local network using WiFi, not cable. It sounds better through WiFi. The cabled connection disturbs the clean recommended network layout of Källa: Mesh point to switch, switch to Källa, nothing else connected to the switch.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by Lego »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-27 14:38 Excellent jajo! I’ve been curious about the Spotify app on Apple TV, but still haven’t tested it.

Apple TV to Källa is dangerous (time wise). For me it has transformed rather cheesy TV series into fascinating storytelling. Background music really grips us and the dialogue is much more intense. Tested a range of DACs for the Apple TV before but wasn’t convinced by any of them. Källa is something completely different.

Unlike iPad, Apple TV never drops Källa as the preferred output, so each time we switch on the TV, the sound comes through without the need to activate anything. It’s just automatic. The only time it’s dropped Källa is when it’s done a firmware upgrade. And those don’t come often.

I recommend connecting the Apple TV to the local network using WiFi, not cable. It sounds better through WiFi. The cabled connection disturbs the clean recommended network layout of Källa: Mesh point to switch, switch to Källa, nothing else connected to the switch.
This reminds me of when I was listening to the news on The Kremlin for the first time.The journalist was reporting live from a factory and all of a sudden I could hear a worker cheerily whistling away in the background.At that moment my focus quickly shifted from the news to trying to identify what the tune was.I remember thinking he must have just received a redundancy cheque .😆
I know that tune
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by Sopper »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-27 14:38
Apple TV to Källa is dangerous (time wise). For me it has transformed rather cheesy TV series into fascinating storytelling. Background music really grips us and the dialogue is much more intense. Tested a range of DACs for the Apple TV before but wasn’t convinced by any of them. Källa is something completely different.
/sigh… Fredrik, don’t post such things…
Now I have to convince my partner to buy and use an Apple TV for watching tv /sarcasm off

Which is super exciting for me, cause I can get back to single source with my Sagatun
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by Mitmu »

Sopper wrote: 2023-03-27 15:46
lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-27 14:38
Apple TV to Källa is dangerous (time wise). For me it has transformed rather cheesy TV series into fascinating storytelling. Background music really grips us and the dialogue is much more intense. Tested a range of DACs for the Apple TV before but wasn’t convinced by any of them. Källa is something completely different.
/sigh… Fredrik, don’t post such things…
Now I have to convince my partner to buy and use an Apple TV for watching tv /sarcasm off

Which is super exciting for me, cause I can get back to single source with my Sagatun
Same problem here ;)

But this will fix my issue of not having the use of HDMI-ARC anymore when the ADSM might be replaced with a Kalla.... the net is closing fast ;)
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by lejonklou »

Lego wrote: 2023-03-27 15:42This reminds me of when I was listening to the news on The Kremlin for the first time.The journalist was reporting live from a factory and all of a sudden I could hear a worker cheerily whistling away in the background.At that moment my focus quickly shifted from the news to trying to identify what the tune was.I remember thinking he must have just received a redundancy cheque .😆
Ha ha!

I can only recall once hearing a live concert broadcast with Kremlin. It was really, really good. Sort of lacked the "recording" element and felt very alive in the room.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by Defender »

I didnt meant to create trouble our nets closing in on you when I asked the question about Apple TV - I was just thinking out loud what would create the most flexibility/value for a relatively low price.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by Mitmu »

Defender wrote: 2023-03-27 22:31 I didnt meant to create trouble our nets closing in on you when I asked the question about Apple TV - I was just thinking out loud what would create the most flexibility/value for a relatively low price.
I meant that the 'net' of personal excuses of not buying a Kalla is running dry haha ;)
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by macrotech2 »

Sopper wrote: 2023-03-27 15:46
lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-27 14:38
Apple TV to Källa is dangerous (time wise). For me it has transformed rather cheesy TV series into fascinating storytelling. Background music really grips us and the dialogue is much more intense. Tested a range of DACs for the Apple TV before but wasn’t convinced by any of them. Källa is something completely different.
/sigh… Fredrik, don’t post such things…
Now I have to convince my partner to buy and use an Apple TV for watching tv /sarcasm off

Which is super exciting for me, cause I can get back to single source with my Sagatun
Exactly the same here - the sonic improvement is amazing. The transformation of the theme tune from the BBC2 Quiz Show "Only Connect" on iPlayer through Källa still astounds me (how sad I am!) Even better now that an annoying lip sync issue on Dolby Vision programmes has gone away (after a TV software update).

There's one issue though, Apple TV does not carry BBC iPlayer UHD streams, or indeed any HLG encoded programmes, so not suitable for watching the amazing visuals of Wild Isles for instance.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by macrotech2 »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-27 14:38 I recommend connecting the Apple TV to the local network using WiFi, not cable. It sounds better through WiFi. The cabled connection disturbs the clean recommended network layout of Källa: Mesh point to switch, switch to Källa, nothing else connected to the switch.
Thanks for this recommendation Fredrik. Switching the Apple TV from wired to wireless was certainly an excellent improvement. It was streets ahead of optical out from the TV before, but now even more natural and alive.

I'm a big Star Trek fan and the improvement of the orchestral Next Generation theme at the end of the latest Picard episode was astounding.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by mradem »

I play with different control points and the one thing I did notice is the sound volume. My iPad mini 6 plays louder then my Apple TV 4K (using WiFi). I have no idea why..
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by lejonklou »

mradem wrote: 2023-07-14 10:32 I play with different control points and the one thing I did notice is the sound volume. My iPad mini 6 plays louder then my Apple TV 4K (using WiFi). I have no idea why..
There should be no difference, unless the app has some kind of digital volume feature.

What app are you listening with on the iPad and Apple TV? I assume you’re comparing the same app on both devices. If not, it’s worth knowing that most films and TV series are mixed low in order to have headroom for loud passages, like explosions. Pop and rock on streaming services are often mixed closer to max, as there’s little need for headroom.
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Re: Recommended control points

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I use Apple Music on all devices.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by lejonklou »

OK, then make sure you disable the equalizer, set Sound Check to off (volume normalisation, bad for audio quality) and set the volume control (if there is one) in the app to Max.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by mradem »

Oké thanks! Couldn’t find those settings at first but now I did 😄. Had to change some settings, audio quality wasn’t even on lossless..
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by tokenbrit »

TLDR; bought a 2nd iPad Mini :)


Considering getting a 2nd control point - it's between:
iPhone 11 (refurb)
iPad Mini 6
Mac Mini (M1 or M2)

I don't need a 'new' phone at the moment, and realistically wouldn't buy a 4-yr old phone as a new/replacement phone. Concerned that the screen size is less practical as a control point than an iPad Mini...

A second iPad Mini in the house could control the TV, while the other is free for music in the other room, or we could control the music from either room without musical favo(u)r... (lazy, I know :)

Mac Mini offers additional, practical use as a creative desktop, but M1/M2 versions don't appear on the control point rankings list... what are the chances a new(er) Mac Mini would come in above an iPad Mini &/or iPhone 11? Anyone tried an M1/2 Mac Mini as an AirPlay control point?

Of the 3, would anyone choose other than a 2nd iPad Mini 6? If so, what would it be and why? (can't afford/justify an iPhone 14 Pro Max 512Gb, sorry)
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by Defender »

is there meanwhile any verdict where streaming Spotify through AppleTV finds its place compared to other control points in the list?
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by tokenbrit »

Has anyone tried using a 9th gen iPad* as a control point? Apparently it utilizes the same A13 chip as the iPhone 11 - just wondering if it represents good musical value for money?

* 2021, 10.2-inch screen, 64 or 256 GB
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by tokenbrit »

Defender wrote: 2023-09-15 17:33 is there meanwhile any verdict where streaming Spotify through AppleTV finds its place compared to other control points in the list?
I don't know about Apple TV's ranking as a control point for Källa but, subjectively, tvOS 17 is sounding good here... do you have a sense of where it sits compared against other control points that you have? Maybe some clips would help ;)

Sure, it would be nice to have add'l control points (Apple TV, Mac Mini, etc.) compared & ranked against the current top-3 / top-5 - as if Fredrik doesn't have enough on his plate :) - but, honestly, except for critical listening, I feel like the best control point is the one you have to hand: buy 1 for 'dedicated' listening; others for convenience, imho :)
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by jajo »

tokenbrit wrote: 2023-09-18 17:10 Apparently it utilizes the same A13 chip as the iPhone 11 - just wondering if it represents good musical value for money?
Unfortunately there is no established connection between the device performance and their SoC type.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by lejonklou »

Defender wrote: 2023-09-15 17:33 is there meanwhile any verdict where streaming Spotify through AppleTV finds its place compared to other control points in the list?
I haven’t had the chance to position it in the hierarchy, but Apple TV sounds really good.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by lejonklou »

The Pro models of iPhone 15 have been added to the list on the first page.

These phones fooled us at first, by sounding rather sharp and hard with Källa. But it turns out they need to run a couple of weeks and after that they sound really great! This is the first time we've experienced a serious improvement in sound quality of a control point after running in.
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by Lego »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-10-09 22:52 The Pro models of iPhone 15 have been added to the list on the first page.

These phones fooled us at first, by sounding rather sharp and hard with Källa. But it turns out they need to run a couple of weeks and after that they sound really great! This is the first time we've experienced a serious improvement in sound quality of a control point after running in.
Hmm this is similar experience I had when I bought a dac for my laptop.It sounded bright and sharp but after a couple of weeks it greatly improved with a warmer sound .Then I took it to a friend's house an lo and behold it was back to its original sound.I sometimes wonder is it the gear changing or is it us .I'd like to hear this burn in thing demonstrated with clips .Burn in always seems to end up sounding better ,never worse .
I know that tune
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Re: Recommended control points

Post by Spannko »

I’ve heard loudspeaker capacitors getting worse with time, usually the audiophile type.
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