Recommended network components

[V.A.MKD]

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dowaf4ojr2rjg ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/76doxxm3zm0a2 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

I'm for A here ...

[ThomasOK]

I definitely prefer A, indeed more musical. Maybe music and a bag of chips don't go well together? Did the left speaker do something wrong to not deserve a beautiful dress and flowers too?

[tpetsch]

Oh yea, "A", pretty obvious. ...Also digging that Tube Trap!

[springwood64]

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dowaf4ojr2rjg ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/76doxxm3zm0a2 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

The unanimous vote is for A

Ho hum.

A is wired and B is wireless, and I definitely prefer the wireless configuration. I spent much of last night exploring new music with my eldest daughter.

I'm glad you like the dress. It's a lockdown project by my youngest and a first foray into serious haberdashery. It is a recreation of the dress from original french patterns (written in French, which was a new experience for my youngest) combined with reference to a famous painting of Madame de Pompadour, mistress of Louis XV. He built the dress from the skin up, including chemise, stays and panniers (recreated using industrial sized tie wraps instead of whale bone). Most of the dress is constructed from old curtains. The dress is going on display in our local castle, Powderham. I'm not sure if I'm going to miss its commanding presence, or not. Here it is on location: https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzzDkp

Back to much more trivial matters, here are a couple of recordings comparing a minimal change from wired to wireless. No changes to power or position were made for this comparison.

Wired:
* Router >> 5m Cat 5e (not BJC, embedded in the walls) >> Wall plate >> 0.5m BJC >> (port 7) Netgear GS108T (port 8) >> BJC 2.5m >> Hakai
* Router powered downstairs, by the phone cable point
* Netgear GS108T upstairs, powered as per Frederik's recommendations on a second mains extender and the same mains ring as the rest of the HiFi.

Wireless:
* Router >> BJC 0.5m >> Amplifi HD 1
* Amplifi HD 2 >> BJC 2.5m >> (port 7) Netgear GS108T (port 8) >> BJC 2.5m >> HAKAI
* Router and Amplifi HD 1 powered together from the same mains extender (downstairs, by the phone cable point)
* Amplifi HD 2, Netgear GS108T upstairs, powered as per Frederik's recommendations on a second mains extender and the same mains ring as the rest of the HiFi.

Which do you prefer?

C https://www.dropbox.com/s/61vypo5gjr8sr ... 6.mp4?dl=0
D https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1k1ifnqq9b2x ... 4.mp4?dl=0

[matthias]

A is wired and B is wireless, and I definitely prefer the wireless configuration.

Is this correct?

[springwood64]

A is wired and B is wireless, and I definitely prefer the wireless configuration.

Is this correct?

Yes!

[matthias]

A is wired and B is wireless, and I definitely prefer the wireless configuration.

Is this correct?

Yes!

So is the in room listening differently than the clips or do you prefer B in the clips as well?

[springwood64]

So is the in room listening differently than the clips or do you prefer B in the clips as well?

I prefer B in the clips as well as in the room. I've tried listening to the clips in 3 different ways and my preference still stands:
* On the phone as originally recorded
* Downloaded onto my PC
* Played from Dropbox

Maybe I'm being swayed by a sound improvement over a musicality degradation, but if so it's of a different character to my usual dead-ends. The effect at the moment is that I want to play more music and play it louder, which is usually a pretty reliable indicator of an improvement for me.

[Defender]

A by a margin B sounds more ‚airy“ to me but makes musically less fun

hu? I just read that you prefer the other even though we all prefer A better. Are you sure A is the file which is the wired connection?

[matthias]

The effect at the moment is that I want to play more music and play it louder, which is usually a pretty reliable indicator of an improvement for me.

Yes, for me as well, but I found B like there is some compression on the music.

[springwood64]

Are you sure A is the file which is the wired connection?

Yes: A is definitely wired.

[lejonklou]

C https://www.dropbox.com/s/61vypo5gjr8sr ... 6.mp4?dl=0
D https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1k1ifnqq9b2x ... 4.mp4?dl=0

I prefer C.

I also absolutely love the dress! Bravo to your youngest!

It’s perfectly possible you are right and we were all wrong on A versus B.

Can I ask you to do one experiment? No need for clips, just listen for yourself whether you can hear the difference between your 0.5 m BJC from Router to Amplifi 1 and some other cable that is longer.

The reason I’m asking is because I’ve done this in my own setup.

[Defender]

with this one I have difficulties not a clear preference for C or D

[matthias]

IIRC, the recommended length of ethernet cables on this forum is minimum 8.5 feet or 2.5 meters.
If this is the case then doesn't it make sense to do all comparisons with recommended lengths?

[springwood64]

Can I ask you to do one experiment? No need for clips, just listen for yourself whether you can hear the difference between your 0.5 m BJC from Router to Amplifi 1 and some other cable that is longer.

I compared the 0.5m BJC to a 1.5m patch cable, and listened to a couple of tracks, including Sting's Fragile.

There is a reliable tonal difference, and I prefer the longer cable. It conveys more atmosphere, nuance, subtlety and is more emotive. I could not hear a timing difference via tune method, but the longer cable seems to bring more of the benefit that the wireless set up brings over the wired.

I have ordered a 2.5m BJC cat5e patch cable.

[ThomasOK]

I'm liking C better as well, although these two seem a bit closer to me than A and B did. I'm glad Fredrik asked about the short Ethernet cable as I was wondering about that as well. I still have one point of confusion - isn't it the CAT6a that is the recommended BJC type rather than CAT5e?

[ThomasOK]

The dress is even more impressive seeing how it drapes on a person. That is an amazing job, period, much less for a first attempt at something that complex. Congratulations to your youngest son! Next you'll be telling us he is 6 years old! ;-)

[springwood64]

isn't it the CAT6a that is the recommended BJC type rather than CAT5e?

O, bother. Is it? I guess there's always a use for a patch cable ...

[Pedro]

Now that the Amplifis are available again, I received 2 on Thursday.
In order not to endanger the existing network (I am not a network expert), I selected bridge mode for the first Amplifi. Otherwise I did everything as Fredrik described. In the music room, the cabling with two power strips is also done according to Fredrik's suggestion.

What is changed by the two Amplifis ?

The two Amplifis make the stage slightly larger in all 3 dimensions.
The resonance of the notes is a bit more audible, so that the playing and interaction of the musicians is even easier to follow. The flow of the music is even better, the dynamics are maintained.
In comparison, the version without Amplifis seems minimally constricted.
Here, the foot-tapping effect is perhaps minimally greater; in the version with Amplifi, the swaying effect is convincing (you sway along with the beat of the music).
At low volumes (25-35) and also with sources with low data rates (e.g. Internet radio streams with 44.1 kHz - 128 kps), the music remains somewhat more differentiated, voices somewhat clearer.
At very high volume levels (70 - 80) the low bass (Komris!) remains better under control, so that it is a real pleasure.
I'll be listening with this network arrangement over the next few days and then maybe try a few more variations.

The Microconnect cables (our former favourites, 9 years old) are about 2.5 m long, the Meicord Opal cables 2m.

About the plug switching power supplies:
I don't plug them directly into the power strip, but use extensions about 2.5 m long each and then put the power supplies upside down. It sounds better to me, whether it is the firmer stand, vibration control or the “power-distance” between the switching power supplies...

Netzwerk.jpg

Netzwerk mit Amplifi.jpg

Steckernetzteile 2.jpg

[Defender]

have you also checked which side of the power supplies gets the live wire (L1)?

[Pedro]

Yes, it is the left side if you hold the plug as when you plug it in and the cable hangs down.

[springwood64]

Wired:
* Router >> 5m Cat 5e (not BJC, embedded in the walls) >> Wall plate >> 0.5m BJC >> (port 7) Netgear GS108T (port 8) >> BJC 2.5m >> Hakai
* Router powered downstairs, by the phone cable point
* Netgear GS108T upstairs, powered as per Frederik's recommendations on a second mains extender and the same mains ring as the rest of the HiFi.

Wireless:
* Router >> BJC 0.5m >> Amplifi HD 1
* Amplifi HD 2 >> BJC 2.5m >> (port 7) Netgear GS108T (port 8) >> BJC 2.5m >> HAKAI
* Router and Amplifi HD 1 powered together from the same mains extender (downstairs, by the phone cable point)
* Amplifi HD 2, Netgear GS108T upstairs, powered as per Frederik's recommendations on a second mains extender and the same mains ring as the rest of the HiFi.

Which do you prefer?

C https://www.dropbox.com/s/61vypo5gjr8sr ... 6.mp4?dl=0
D https://www.dropbox.com/s/g1k1ifnqq9b2x ... 4.mp4?dl=0

C is wireless, D is wired

[matthias]

Thank you guys for clips and contributions, very valuable info!

[lejonklou]

isn't it the CAT6a that is the recommended BJC type rather than CAT5e?

O, bother. Is it? I guess there's always a use for a patch cable ...

What you want is the Blue Jeans CAT 6a in 8.5 ft length, wherever it fits.

I tried a 0.3 dm one between modem and Amplifi 1, because it made the installation so visually tidy. Although not as influential as the cables between Amplifi 2, switch and Källa, it was still easily heard and not fun.

[springwood64]

What you want is the Blue Jeans CAT 6a in 8.5 ft length, wherever it fits.

Thanks. 3 are winging their way to me from the US.

Thanks everyone for contributions to this thread: listening this morning to a Beatles album I've known for decades, and it sounds so fresh and alive. I'm really enjoying the improvement this network fiddling has brought.