General Discussion about Källa

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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Discodave »

Ha, no doubt.

I recently gave my new neighbours my phone number for this exact eventuality. No calls to turn it down yet. 🤗
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by macrotech2 »

I just checked and Spotify Volume normalisation was on. So I will need to reevaluate against Qobuz.

Can I suggest ( if not somewhere already) a page listing all recommended settings for Spotify, Qobuz, foobar2000 and MConnect? I think this would be a great help to everybody.

Thanks

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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by matthias »

My Spotify settings:

Explicit content ON
Audio quality VERY HIGH
All others OFF

I listen to Qobuz always via Audirvana 3.5.44
Last edited by matthias on 2021-11-21 16:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Arjen »

Discodave wrote: 2021-11-20 20:50 Very enjoyable and insightful.
I concur with the LP12 DILEMMA.
Ah, LP12 versus Kalla dilemma.
Isn’t this the wrong dilemma, for shouldn’t you compare streamers with streamers, turntables with turntables and judge every device on its own merit?
So the Kalla might beat other streamers, but don’t let Kalla compete with turntable/Lejonklou preamp combinations.
I’d love to listen to Kalla myself and conclude my own verdicts (any chance Marco in Tuindorp Oostzaan?), but I won’t let my recent upgraded Lenco76/S/Nagaoka MP300/Slipsik 7.1 setup down in a needless competition.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by markiteight »

Arjen wrote: 2021-11-21 01:32
Discodave wrote: 2021-11-20 20:50 Very enjoyable and insightful.
I concur with the LP12 DILEMMA.
Ah, LP12 versus Kalla dilemma.
Isn’t this the wrong dilemma, for shouldn’t you compare streamers with streamers, turntables with turntables and judge every device on its own merit?
So the Kalla might beat other streamers, but don’t let Kalla compete with turntable/Lejonklou preamp combinations.
I’d love to listen to Kalla myself and conclude my own verdicts (any chance Marco in Tuindorp Oostzaan?), but I won’t let my recent upgraded Lenco76/S/Nagaoka MP300/Slipsik 7.1 setup down in a needless competition.
No. If the goal is to achieve the most musical understanding from your playback system the format used to reproduce the music shouldn't be a factor. If we compare one source that costs $8500 with another that costs $35,000 and the cheaper option is better and gives you access to a vast library of music, isn't the choice obvious? That one is Källa and the other is an LP12 is irrelevant. If you're lucky enough to be able to afford both, more power to 'ya! But if you're on a budget and striving to get the most music out of your Dollar/Euro/Pound/Ruble, Källa represents an incredible value proposition compared to the LP12. For that reason alone it is a valid comparison.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by springwood64 »

markiteight wrote: 2021-11-21 04:39
Arjen wrote: 2021-11-21 01:32
Discodave wrote: 2021-11-20 20:50 Very enjoyable and insightful.
I concur with the LP12 DILEMMA.
Ah, LP12 versus Kalla dilemma.
Isn’t this the wrong dilemma, for shouldn’t you compare streamers with streamers, turntables with turntables and judge every device on its own merit?
So the Kalla might beat other streamers, but don’t let Kalla compete with turntable/Lejonklou preamp combinations.
I’d love to listen to Kalla myself and conclude my own verdicts (any chance Marco in Tuindorp Oostzaan?), but I won’t let my recent upgraded Lenco76/S/Nagaoka MP300/Slipsik 7.1 setup down in a needless competition.
No. If the goal is to achieve the most musical understanding from your playback system the format used to reproduce the music shouldn't be a factor. If we compare one source that costs $8500 with another that costs $35,000 and the cheaper option is better and gives you access to a vast library of music, isn't the choice obvious? That one is Källa and the other is an LP12 is irrelevant. If you're lucky enough to be able to afford both, more power to 'ya! But if you're on a budget and striving to get the most music out of your Dollar/Euro/Pound/Ruble, Källa represents an incredible value proposition compared to the LP12. For that reason alone it is a valid comparison.
This is the decision I'm assessing over the next few months
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Arjen »

springwood64 wrote: 2021-11-21 07:37
markiteight wrote: 2021-11-21 04:39
Arjen wrote: 2021-11-21 01:32

Ah, LP12 versus Kalla dilemma.
Isn’t this the wrong dilemma, for shouldn’t you compare streamers with streamers, turntables with turntables and judge every device on its own merit?
So the Kalla might beat other streamers, but don’t let Kalla compete with turntable/Lejonklou preamp combinations.
I’d love to listen to Kalla myself and conclude my own verdicts (any chance Marco in Tuindorp Oostzaan?), but I won’t let my recent upgraded Lenco76/S/Nagaoka MP300/Slipsik 7.1 setup down in a needless competition.

No. If the goal is to achieve the most musical understanding from your playback system the format used to reproduce the music shouldn't be a factor. If we compare one source that costs $8500 with another that costs $35,000 and the cheaper option is better and gives you access to a vast library of music, isn't the choice obvious? That one is Källa and the other is an LP12 is irrelevant. If you're lucky enough to be able to afford both, more power to 'ya! But if you're on a budget and striving to get the most music out of your Dollar/Euro/Pound/Ruble, Källa represents an incredible value proposition compared to the LP12. For that reason alone it is a valid comparison.
This is the decision I'm assessing over the next few months
So because of the very expensive LP12 it is a dilemma, or not in the end, when the cheaper Kalla beat the more expensive LP12. If it is about a excellent Lenco upgrade or another reasonable priced high performance turntable than the comparison is put in a different light. Than it is also more about the rituals en joy of playing music, holding physical (signed) sleeves and shining records, playing albums as it was meant to be by the artists. I’d say playing records is also a adventurous (sentimental) journey, different from streaming music.
Last edited by Arjen on 2021-11-21 12:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by matthias »

A question for Fredrik:

When a client gets a brand new Källa how many hours of "burn-in" needs Källa to reach its optimum performance and how does the sound signature change in this period?

Thanks
Last edited by matthias on 2021-11-21 16:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Defender »

hi Arjen,
comparing Källa to other streamers is already game over. Thats why you ultimately start to compare it to the ultimate musical benchmark which for most is the LP12.
About 70-80% Källa already does better than my LP12 so a pure rational decision would be to have the Källa instead the LP12.
I bet you will find out the same comparing it to your turntable.

@Matthias: when I got 003 I didnt feel there was much run in still going on. It was not the normal roller coaster ride. But I also dont know how much it was played before. Just niiiice from the start.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Hermann »

Thank you very much Defender for the detailed report. Seem you enjoy it...

However, I am still confused about the control point. On the one hand Apple is recommended, on the other hand it is said that the CP has no influence on the musicality. How can I understand this?

Fredrik does an excellent job posting a lot of information. Supported by some users who obviously ask the right questions, a clear and unclear picture emerges.

Network settings etc are clear, so is power supply, dedicated hardware and cabling. So do I need an Airpad as a CP if I currently only have access to a NAS? Maybe the questions have long been answered and I'm reading the answers wrong?

Thanks to Defender, I now know that a trial subscription to Spotify is possible. Ok, I was never interested in that. But when Källa comes along, I'll have a look into that.

Some music examples are also online, which is certainly very good. However, I can't always follow everything that is posted. Could be due to my inadequacy, who knows.... But I am sure that many will follow.

Another important question is of course the current upgrade for the LP12. My dealer is almost stepping on my toes and an invitation to a Linn event next week is pending. Upgrade LP12 or wait for the Källa so as not to get into new gear at the same time? Because currrently the demand for Källa seems to be high and demo units are few and far between.

I'll post some examples with different repeater configurations and different positions of the NAS in the coming days. It took a lot of time because the delivery of the Blue Jean cables took a very long time on the one hand and on the other hand they caused a really huge problem (but more about that later). It's only been a few days now that I can relax and listen to music via Naim NDS again.

So, do I need an Airpad or something like that to get maximum Källa enjoyment?
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by matthias »

Arjen wrote: 2021-11-21 09:39 Than it is also more about the rituals en joy of playing music, holding physical (signed) sleeves and shining records, playing albums as it was meant to be by the artists. I’d say playing records is also a adventurous (sentimental) journey, different from streaming music.
Possessing music as a physical media doesn't play for me a role any more as long as I can get the music I want to listen to in perfect quality. This seems to be possible with streaming services like Qobuz and Spotify and Källa as streamer.
So it doesn't make sense for me to invest further in vinyl playback with replacing or overhauling the cartridge after 2000 hours.

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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by matthias »

Hermann wrote: 2021-11-21 12:21 .......on the other hand it is said that the CP has no influence on the musicality.
Sorry Hermann,
I do not know where you got this but when you read the control point thread it should be clear that this is not the case.
Last edited by matthias on 2021-11-21 16:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Defender »

Hermann wrote: 2021-11-21 12:21 Thank you very much Defender for the detailed report. Seem you enjoy it...

However, I am still confused about the control point. On the one hand Apple is recommended, on the other hand it is said that the CP has no influence on the musicality. How can I understand this?

Fredrik does an excellent job posting a lot of information. Supported by some users who obviously ask the right questions, a clear and unclear picture emerges.

Network settings etc are clear, so is power supply, dedicated hardware and cabling. So do I need an Airpad as a CP if I currently only have access to a NAS? Maybe the questions have long been answered and I'm reading the answers wrong?

Thanks to Defender, I now know that a trial subscription to Spotify is possible. Ok, I was never interested in that. But when Källa comes along, I'll have a look into that.

Some music examples are also online, which is certainly very good. However, I can't always follow everything that is posted. Could be due to my inadequacy, who knows.... But I am sure that many will follow.

Another important question is of course the current upgrade for the LP12. My dealer is almost stepping on my toes and an invitation to a Linn event next week is pending. Upgrade LP12 or wait for the Källa so as not to get into new gear at the same time? Because currrently the demand for Källa seems to be high and demo units are few and far between.

I'll post some examples with different repeater configurations and different positions of the NAS in the coming days. It took a lot of time because the delivery of the Blue Jean cables took a very long time on the one hand and on the other hand they caused a really huge problem (but more about that later). It's only been a few days now that I can relax and listen to music via Naim NDS again.

So, do I need an Airpad or something like that to get maximum Källa enjoyment?
Hi Hermann,
my advice to you is - hold the upgrades for the LP12 back. Dealers who try to rush you are not the ones which I consider good ones. And upgrades for an LP12 are not a limited good. You can always get it later. Linn will not run out of it.
I promise you the Källa will question many things including your LP12.
With respect to the control point you need an Apple IPad or an Apple IPhone and even though Fredrik said he minimized the influence of the different types of Apple devices they are still there. If you need to buy one for using it with Källa you might choose the best from the list which is currently the IPad mini 6 - for the test almost every Ipad or Iphone which is not older than 4 years will do fine with out big loss of musicality.
Look at the Control Point as your remote control for the music with a screen. You probably access also your music files on your NAS to play through the Naim with such a remote control (maybe a phone or an Samsung Tablet or with a computer) thats where you control your music - you choose which album to play, you choose to start or stop the music.
The difference for you now is that your NAS sends the music than directly to your Streamer. The protocol which sends the data is transferring data directly between your NAS and your Naim. Your Naim understands the protokoll which the NAS uses.

Now Källa only understands the protokoll which Apple is using so even when your music is on the NAS you need the music to go from the NAS to your IPhone/IPad be translated into the Apple protokoll and only than send through your network to Källa. The control point is connected to your wifi the rest goes trough your ethernet wires.
Hope that helps.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by V.A.MKD »

Thank you Defender.
Great ...
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Hermann »

Thank you very much Defender for your detailed description. Regarding CP, seems I got it wrong.

So does the QNAP music server instead of Naim NDS or Källa the Ip-address of the Ipad is entered, where the music is then routed and the Ipad "sees" Källa and sends via WLAN/LAN the translated music data to Källa. Hope I got it.

Sorry for my impertinent inquiry.

For sure I will buy an Ipad mini 6 when Källa arrives. Anyway I need a new tablet. Must bite the bullet and make this company a little richer. But what the heck, it's about music.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Defender »

for the test of Källa I would find a friend with an IPAD or IPhone to understand what Källa does for you

dont worry about your NAS connection we can figure that out easily when you have a Källa but for the test I would go with Spotify or Qobuz
For the NAS you only need to find an app which can assess your NAS and stream over airplay to Källa
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Tendaberry »

Defender wrote: 2021-11-21 11:23 About 70-80% Källa already does better than my LP12 so a pure rational decision would be to have the Källa instead the LP12.
I bet you will find out the same comparing it to your turntable.
Defender, may I ask what recordings/pressings you used to arrive at this conclusion?
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Defender »

it is a general conclusion - I didnt found one pressing where the trend was different and the LP12 could turn the tide - there might be variance and better pressings but the overall conclusion stays the same. I used US pressings of Chris Isaak and Bruce Springsteen but also first pressings from Europe. But I have to admit I am not as knowledgabe as you are with respect to the most musical pressings.

Maybe my LP12 is not perfectly set up? I dont know I might have to send a clip to Thomas and ask him if it sounds reasonable.
But go back to the comparison clips which Thomas did provide - LP12/Singularity vs. Källa. His LP12 is a higher level than mine surely better set up and toqued and the Sigularities are better than my phono stage.

Why dont you test the Källa by yourself - just ask Marco and I am sure he will find a way.

P.S. When I give percentages I dont mean 70-80% of albums sound and are more musical with Källa and 20-30% with the LP12 - no I mean from all the musical impressions which make you enjoy a device or an album in 70-80% Källa is better (like emotions, voices, transparency, calmness, pace, rythm, drive, naturality, musical flow, ability to understand what is going on). I know some of them blend and might be more or less the same or depend on each other but thats what I mean.

However maybe the 20-30% where I think the LP12 does a better job is where your priorities are.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Hermann »

Defender wrote: 2021-11-22 22:53 for the test of Källa I would find a friend with an IPAD or IPhone to understand what Källa does for you

dont worry about your NAS connection we can figure that out easily when you have a Källa but for the test I would go with Spotify or Qobuz
For the NAS you only need to find an app which can assess your NAS and stream over airplay to Källa
No one of my frends uses Apple. If I want to test Spotif, I need an Ipad mini 6. I now know that the NDS can use Spotify premium.

Regarding tablet access to NAS could be a problem, because so far I have not found an app that does this under Android. Perhaps it is due to the rather old QNAP SW. I don't know.

In fact, for example, the Naim app is the only one that finds the NDS on the network. Neither VLC, nor Kodi or some others that are always recommended. I guess I'll have to dig deeper into that. Airplay for Android exists, of course, but the review says it's not very good.

The Naim app also exists for iOS, of course. Therefore, an Ipad should be the right tool.

If the forum would'nt exist.... Thanks for the help
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Defender »

hi Hermann you probably use the QNAP DLNA/UPnP media server on your QNAP.

I use the minimserver (https://minimserver.com/) for QNAP which is an app you can install on your QNAP
This minimserver is also an UPnP AV music server but only very "schlank/basic" codierung - to get the best out of the music.

This server (minimserver) can be accessed from your IPhone/IPad through an app called foobar2000 if you want to use your NAS with Källa.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Hermann »

I no longer know how to thank you defender. Minimserver trial is up and running. Even my wife is asking which switch I flipped this time. Anyway, an improvement can be heard over the standard QNAP music server.

Well use Foobar2000 on all my computers. Thats the only app on Windows which found the NDS.
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Defender »

Hermann wrote: 2021-11-23 21:48 I no longer know how to thank you defender. Minimserver trial is up and running. Even my wife is asking which switch I flipped this time. Anyway, an improvement can be heard over the standard QNAP music server.

Well use Foobar2000 on all my computers. Thats the only app on Windows which found the NDS.
thats great to hear - minimserver even has the chance of transcoding your music files (from wav to Flac or even transcoding to 32bits) if that makes your NDS sound better.
Foobar2000 on the IPad would than allow you to control your NDS and/or Källa from the IPad. No need to control it from the computer … but you still could (only for the NDS)
Something nice is coming your way ;)
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Hermann »

I'm not deep enough into that yet, so here's my question. Is it also possible to transcode hires recordings in CD quality?
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Defender »

it seems to also work in transcoding to lower resolution - you can check minimStreamer-User guide-Transcoding
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Re: General Discussion about Källa

Post by Pierre@headonist »

These guys were meant for each other.

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