Noisy HAKAI

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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markiteight
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Noisy HAKAI

Post by markiteight »

I'm running into a bit of an issue with my HAKAI. With no music playing I can hear a rhythmic (about 1 second intervals) burst of what I can best describe as digital noise from the speakers. Since installing the JBL 308Ps this noise has become a bit more pronounced, to the point where I can hear it over quiet music passages. If I turn HAKAI off the noise turns into a constant, higher pitch squeal (note that the Gigaport DA converter remains powered up whether HAKAI is on or off, as long as the CPU is plugged into its power source). Anyone else experience this?

Things I've tried in order to eliminate/reduce/track down the noise:
Cable arrangement/dressing: No change
Internal cable arrangement/dressing: No change
Try all 4 USB outputs: No change
Try different USB cables: No change
Disconnect Network cable: No change
Turn off and unplug NAS: No change
Try all Network inputs: No change
Swap Power Supply with identical unit from NAS: No change
Rotate Power Supply cable at CPU input: I can find one spot where the noise gets louder, but none where it's quieter.
Disconnect power supply: Noise stops
Disconnect USB cable to Gigaport: Noise stops
Disconnect RCAs from DAC to preamp: Noise stops
Here's where it gets weird...
Adjust volume level: No change
Switch inputs on preamp: No change
Turn preamp off: No change!
Plug HAKAI into a different power strip plugged into a different outlet: NO CHANGE!

So the DAC needs to be connected to the preamp in order to hear the noise, yet the status of the preamp (input, volume, whether it's even on) doesn't affect the noise! Okay...maybe the noise is being transmitted through the power supply side of things. But isolating HAKAI by plugging it into a different outlet doesn't affect the noise. Hrmmmm...maybe it's RFI that's being picked up by other cables in the system. If that's the case I should be able to easily manipulate the noise by moving cables around, but there's no change there either! I consider the one way I've been able to manipulate the noise with the power supply input cable at the back of the CPU to be a red herring. The rhythmic noise I'm hearing is nothing like the (virtually) constant DC signal that's present on that cable.

Pardon my language, but WTAF???!!! I'm at a loss where to look next, other than swapping the NAS and HAKAI. Is there anything obvious (or perhaps not so obvious) I've missed? Or am I chasing something that is a normal quirk of HAKAI and I should just learn to live with it?
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by fatjulio »

This is the power supply to the Hakai creating an earth loop. This just happened to me, as I got some JBL 305p MkI to try.

https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 267#p48267

My solution is to cut the earth pin from the power cord going to the power supply. A temporary solution is to use a cheater plug with no earth pin, or cut the earth off a stacker power plug and use that.

The result is so much more musicality. I have a Hakai NAS, so it had the same issue. "Fixing" that also made a good improvement to musicality. Without addressing the earth loop, you're losing a lot of musicality. Without powered speakers, this issue isn't apparent.
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by markiteight »

Thank you, fatjulio!

I was reminded that I had read that post but apparently completely forgot about it. I'll give a cheater plug a try and see if that makes a difference.
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by David Neel »

I believe that will sort it for you. I had a similar problem, which recurred last week. My PC is built from Hakai cast-off parts, and plugged in 8m away from the hifi. No problem. Taking the audio out into the hifi introduced major hum. I swapped cables to no avail, and then remembered the cheater plug.
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by markiteight »

Cheater plug worked! I haven't had time to have a listen yet but the noise is gone. Thanks!!!
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by tokenbrit »

markiteight wrote: 2021-11-19 22:55 Cheater plug worked! I haven't had time to have a listen yet...
Enquiring minds (& ears) will be interested to know your thoughts after a listen, and what the electrically safe, longer-term solution would be...
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by David Neel »

I've accidentally discovered a fix, but it's not cheap.

In my correspondence with Streacom over this ground noise issue, they indicated that the duplicate ground on the Nano 160 could also be cured by a proper insulation within the case or at the power inlet connection. Before I butchered an extension strip, I tried isolating the main board, unsuccessfully and to the detriment of the music, and the power inlet connection, also unsuccessfully. So, since then, I've had Hakai powered off a cheater strip.

I bought so many components for Hakai that the spares have been built into my home pc. I got fed up with huge case I used for this, which used to house my LSNAS (!), so I bought a Streacom FC8alpha case for the Hakai, and used the original for my pc.

Yesterday I rebuilt my network in preparation for Källa and moved the GS108T to the socket previously used by the cheater strip. Then I wanted to check all was working, so plugged Hakai into the main power strip, without the cheater strip. I then went to unplug Entity to remove the hum, before realising there was none....

So it MAY be that the case is the difference, and that I've not needed the cheater strip since I rebuilt Hakai! At this point I'm not going to open anything up again...

And yes, Fredrik's recommendation of the switch powered from a socket next to the main strip is very effective.
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by markiteight »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-19 23:00 Enquiring minds (& ears) will be interested to know your thoughts after a listen, and what the electrically safe, longer-term solution would be...
Wiv: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjesyaj0a39t4 ... 2.MOV?dl=0
Wivout: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz9qmsb5ngwha ... 1.MOV?dl=0

The song is called Ends of the Earth, by Hot Chip. Not exactly the best song for clip comparison but the title seemed appropriate.
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by tokenbrit »

markiteight wrote: 2021-11-20 02:49
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-19 23:00 Enquiring minds (& ears) will be interested to know your thoughts after a listen, and what the electrically safe, longer-term solution would be...
Wiv: <original clips...
Wivout: .. clipped!>

The song is called Ends of the Earth, by Hot Chip. Not exactly the best song for clip comparison but the title seemed appropriate.
Secret squirrel clips asking me to sign in?!?
Last edited by tokenbrit on 2021-11-20 17:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by markiteight »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-20 03:51 Secret squirrel clips asking me to sign in?!?
Oopsss...I knew something didn't look right! Should be fixed.
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by tokenbrit »

markiteight wrote: 2021-11-20 03:59
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-20 03:51 Secret squirrel clips asking me to sign in?!?
Oopsss...I knew something didn't look right! Should be fixed.
Wivout doubt you've unearthed the problem
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by markiteight »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-20 04:23 Wivout doubt you've unearthed the problem
Agreed. The clips cannot convey the extent to which this change has elevated the music. HAKAI has always been really good, but this is getting silly! I'm currently playing Janis Ian Hunger, an album I'm fairly familiar with...or so I thought. I encountered a track I'd never heard before. A hidden track perhaps? But in the middle of the album? Turns out, much to my embarrassment, it's the title track! Of course I've heard it before, but I've never experienced it. I guess it's a song that I never connected with and either skipped it or tuned it out. Not tonight!
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by tokenbrit »

Getting Cowboy Junkies vibes from the album…. Cool that the hacked Hakai came on song from just humming along :)
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by ThomasOK »

markiteight wrote: 2021-11-20 02:49
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-19 23:00 Enquiring minds (& ears) will be interested to know your thoughts after a listen, and what the electrically safe, longer-term solution would be...
Wiv: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjesyaj0a39t4 ... 2.MOV?dl=0
Wivout: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz9qmsb5ngwha ... 1.MOV?dl=0

The song is called Ends of the Earth, by Hot Chip. Not exactly the best song for clip comparison but the title seemed appropriate.
Wiv is definitely wivout as much music as what Wivout is putting out. Very nice. (By the way your links now work but the links tokenbrit copied don't. Maybe he could edit that post to remove confusion as I clicked on his first.)
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by tokenbrit »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-11-20 17:17
markiteight wrote: 2021-11-20 02:49
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-11-19 23:00 Enquiring minds (& ears) will be interested to know your thoughts after a listen, and what the electrically safe, longer-term solution would be...
Wiv: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjesyaj0a39t4 ... 2.MOV?dl=0
Wivout: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pz9qmsb5ngwha ... 1.MOV?dl=0

The song is called Ends of the Earth, by Hot Chip. Not exactly the best song for clip comparison but the title seemed appropriate.
Wiv is definitely wivout as much music as what Wivout is putting out. Very nice. (By the way your links now work but the links tokenbrit copied don't. Maybe he could edit that post to remove confusion as I clicked on his first.)
Maybe he could... Maybe he should have rickrolled the links... Maybe he wouldn't do that (again :)

Done. Any confusion that remains is your own responsibility ;)
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Re: Noisy HAKAI

Post by ThomasOK »

Rickrolling would have been cool. It has been long enough for everyone to have forgotten.
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