Control Apps

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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OscarH
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Control Apps

Post by OscarH »

Hello, thought it would be relevant with a tread to discuss pros and cons of the various control apps available.

I got my Hakai to work last night and made my first ever attempt using Linn Kazoo; it has been mentioned on here and is available for iPhone.

Since I at present don't have a NAS but only (some test) files stored locally on the Hakai Kazoo could not recognize it as a media server hence I could only play the songs I had added to a playlist. The various radio stations ran fine.

For me personally it is an absolute requirement to be able to launch an album as an album, without creating a playlist. It is far too cumbersome to add all albums to playlists... I assume this will be possible with a separate NAS.

Please share your experiences.
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Re: Control Apps

Post by FairPlayMotty »

For Android HiFi Cast is head and shoulders better than any other app.

The only app I found usable in ios is MyAudioStreamer but HiFi Cast is in a different league. And it's actively improving.
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OscarH
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Re: Control Apps

Post by OscarH »

Interesting... could be worthwhile having a dedicated tablet for music control anyway. Some android models come quite cheap.
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Re: Control Apps

Post by maffe »

I’m using Kazoo and happy with that. Tried a few others but came back to Kazoo.
Maybe not the prettiest app, but it works.
NAS running minimserv and bubbleupnp as home render for Tidal.
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Re: Control Apps

Post by tokenbrit »

maffe wrote: 2020-02-07 16:29 I’m using Kazoo and happy with that. Tried a few others but came back to Kazoo.
Maybe not the prettiest app, but it works.
NAS running minimserv and bubbleupnp as home render for Tidal.
Slightly confused: I thought BubbleUPnP is (was?) a control point, which would be alternative to Kazoo, but you say you use both... Or do you mean BubbleUPnP Server? :/
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Re: Control Apps

Post by maffe »

tokenbrit wrote: 2020-02-07 17:04
maffe wrote: 2020-02-07 16:29 I’m using Kazoo and happy with that. Tried a few others but came back to Kazoo.
Maybe not the prettiest app, but it works.
NAS running minimserv and bubbleupnp as home render for Tidal.
Slightly confused: I thought BubbleUPnP is (was?) a control point, which would be alternative to Kazoo, but you say you use both... Or do you mean BubbleUPnP Server? :/
Yes :P
The bubble server, sorry for the confusing part it’s kind of my trademark to confuse people;)
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Re: Control Apps

Post by tokenbrit »

To be fair, you had some help from BubbleSoftApps calling multiple things BubbleUpnP something... ;)
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Re: Control Apps

Post by donuk »

I must mention Lumin
A bit like Marmite. You either love it or hate it.
I love it - takes a bit of getting to know, but flexible when you know how.
You can rescan Minimstreamer from within it, for example. Also has the option of viewing everything by date added order.
This is because it keeps all its data on your iPad or whatever. Yes, you have to update that database when you add a CD to your collection. But it is very fast.
There is also a folder view if you prefer.
It is great being able to spread out resizable images of your album covers all across the screen (as opposed to just down one side). The nearest thing to sorting through my no longer extant LP collection. And free.....

Really worth getting to know.
And music sounds much better through this app. No, I lied about the last bit.......

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macrotech2
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Re: Control Apps

Post by macrotech2 »

Another vote for Lumin from me. head and shoulders above all the Linn apps.
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OscarH
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Re: Control Apps

Post by OscarH »

Very early days in my life with the hakai, so I haven’t had the time to try too many solutions yet.

However, both Kazoo and the new Linn app have the nasty tendency to loose connection to the Hakai, requiring a reboot of the former to regain control, eg to change or add music in the queue. Upon reboot, the app still remembers the previous queue, but it’s off course very annoying.

It sees the minimserver NAS the whole time. At least something.

Dabbled briefly with LUMIN last night. This app also sees the NAS but I didn’t manage to add a player. Is this really a upnp app - it appeared to search specifically for lumin devices?

The solution may be found in the Hakai/Snakeoil/Network settings. As stated, early days.

Does anyone else experience this kind of instability?
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Re: Control Apps

Post by tokenbrit »

Kazoo doesn't work well for me but did notice that a new version of upmpdcli was released, just yesterday, to fix issues with Kazoo - if they haven't already I'd expect SnakeOil to update soon with the latest version soon so check for updates.

Otherwise, I have found BubbleDS to be stable where Kazoo hasn't been... I use BubbleDS on an Android phone - where are you running your control point: phone or laptop/pc?

One other thought: have you rebooted your network router recently? Guessing that's where you DHCP server is to provide IP addresses to your network. A reboot can resolve some network issues. Also, you could try assigning static IPs to your Hakai, NAS, and control point device (phone or computer) to avoid any address conflicts.

But, yeah, I find Kazoo to be flakey, while Hakai & Minimserver have been solid.
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Re: Control Apps

Post by OscarH »

Thanks, will certainly see if there are improvements to be had in my home network or on upmpdicli in snakeoil. I haven’t done any tweaks yet beyond just getting the setup to play music.

Currently using my iPhone as control point. As Today I’m using the new Linn app (I really understand it to be called just ‘Linn’... that’s gonna be confusing) and have actually managed to have it in contact with the Hakai for over an hour now. Earlier tonight I had to reboot the Hakai (yes, typo in my previous post where ‘former’ should have been ‘latter’ - restarting the app is not sufficient) after every album.

The indication is that android has better offerings. I’m entirely open to getting a simple tablet to act as music control.
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Re: Control Apps

Post by FairPlayMotty »

OscarH wrote: 2020-02-27 21:24 Thanks, will certainly see if there are improvements to be had in my home network or on upmpdicli in snakeoil. I haven’t done any tweaks yet beyond just getting the setup to play music.

Currently using my iPhone as control point. As Today I’m using the new Linn app (I really understand it to be called just ‘Linn’... that’s gonna be confusing) and have actually managed to have it in contact with the Hakai for over an hour now. Earlier tonight I had to reboot the Hakai (yes, typo in my previous post where ‘former’ should have been ‘latter’ - restarting the app is not sufficient) after every album.

The indication is that android has better offerings. I’m entirely open to getting a simple tablet to act as music control.
Having wasted money on an iPad Air I would go for an Android tablet and HiFi Cast. I couldn't find an ios app anywhere near that quality. Apple seems to like people streaming from itunes. My itunes days died with my iPod Classics. I'm guessing their rampant control of their customer freedom restricts apps that are equivalents to HiFi Cast.
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Re: Control Apps

Post by OscarH »

‘Linn’ lost the Hakai three times just during breakfast today, so I went shopping on my way home.

Edit: I should perhaps specify that this is HiFi Cast on a cheap Lenovo tablet. SO much better than Kazoo or Linn.

Edit 2: to stay on the topic of the ‘bass guitar tread’ I intentionally made Graceland visible ;)
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Re: Control Apps

Post by FairPlayMotty »

OscarH wrote: 2020-02-28 18:21 ‘Linn’ lost the Hakai three times just during breakfast today, so I went shopping on my way home.

Edit: I should perhaps specify that this is HiFi Cast on a cheap Lenovo tablet. SO much better than Kazoo or Linn.

Edit 2: to stay on the topic of the ‘bass guitar tread’ I intentionally made Graceland visible ;)
Tagscanner is good Oscar. The Gram Parsons SACDs sound way better. Do you have them?
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Re: Control Apps

Post by OscarH »

Haven’t owned an SACD in my life. That and minidisc would be the two main formats I’ve never used... (well, I wasn’t allowed to touch the reel-to-reel when I was a kid, but my dad had one)
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Re: Control Apps

Post by OscarH »

To follow up on HiFi Cast: last night the (brand new) tablet needed a restart to install updates. I did that and went to bed. When I woke up this morning and opened it I could immediately use it to play music on the Hakai.

So far it’s proving entirely stable - crucially taking away any ‘DIY feel’ this setup might have had, which is satisfying both for me and the family.
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Re: Control Apps

Post by maffe »

I find it interesting that some find "Kazoo" to work badly and others have no problem at all.
Kazoo (on iOS and macOS) works good for me and have done so with ADSM, Hakai, rpi3 and TinkerBoardS running volumio. works both on ethernet and WiFi. Running Minimserv and Bubbleunpn server on a Qnap Nas.
So it have to be something in the network setup that make the difference?
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Re: Control Apps

Post by OscarH »

It may well be something in my network setup that doesn’t quite click with kazoo/linn.

On the other hand kazoo is really rather poorly rated in AppStore despite the general Linn customer, as far as I can determine, having rather high brand loyalty.

It’s also noteworthy that the Linn tech portal has a section titled (approximately) “Kazoo frequently looses contact with DS”.

But I obviously won’t dispute your good experience.

In my case, there were also a user friendliness aspect of getting one control for all digital playback. That way I won’t have to hand over my phone to everyone all the time :)
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Re: Control Apps

Post by maffe »

OscarH wrote: 2020-02-29 11:47 In my case, there were also a user friendliness aspect of getting one control for all digital playback. That way I won’t have to hand over my phone to everyone all the time :)
Have a control point installed on all computers/iPad and iPhones ;)

And yes I agree that Kazoo have potential for improvement when it come to UI.
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Re: Control Apps

Post by OscarH »

maffe wrote: 2020-02-29 12:04
OscarH wrote: 2020-02-29 11:47 In my case, there were also a user friendliness aspect of getting one control for all digital playback. That way I won’t have to hand over my phone to everyone all the time :)
Have a control point installed on all computers/iPad and iPhones ;)

And yes I agree that Kazoo have potential for improvement when it come to UI.
My kids don’t have phones, they’re 5 and 7.

Also, when you go for a DIY project you do put your pride on the line - 100EUR for a single point, stable UI was, in the grand scheme of things (aka “allmänna konkursen”) a small price to pay to keep everyone happy and impressed ;)
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Re: Control Apps

Post by maffe »

OscarH wrote: 2020-02-29 12:09
My kids don’t have phones, they’re 5 and 7.

Also, when you go for a DIY project you do put your pride on the line - 100EUR for a single point, stable UI was, in the grand scheme of things (aka “allmänna konkursen”) a small price to pay to keep everyone happy and impressed ;)
So true!
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Re: Control Apps

Post by FairPlayMotty »

I tried Lumin, Kazoo etc. Flakey at best.

HiFi Cast is streets ahead and is regularly updated and enhanced. It even makes Volumio usable!
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Re: Control Apps

Post by FairPlayMotty »

In fairness to Kazoo I tied apps by Marantz, Pioneer, Yahama, Sony, Denon, Cambridge Audio etc, when trying to get a reasonable streamer for my daughter. They were all flakey, I don't think any mainstream manufacturer app is likely to be great.

If you look at the system choices given by Antipodes Audio they're remarkably similar to the Snakeoil OS - they might recommend a third party app as a control point.
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Re: Control Apps

Post by springwood64 »

I've tried Hifi Cast, Kazoo, BubbleUpnp, BubbleDS

I have settled on BubbleDS as my main control on my android mobile and my wife uses it for the streamer in her art studio.

My requirements have settled on:
1. Support for Qobuz hi res
2. Support for Radio Paradise FLAC including art and metal data
3. Custom playlists
4. Simple navigation of my music library

Bubble DS is the only control I've found that meets these requirements. It's support for the Radio Paradise album art is a bit flaky, but other than that it is robust and ready to use.

Occasionally I use Kazoo on PC, which has no problems with the Radio Paradise album art, but it cannot control Qobuz because upmpdcli no longer authenticates Qobuz. It relies on BubbleDS to do that, but Kazoo interacts differently.

BubbleDS supports Open Home Radio, so works with the upmpdcli radio feature.

Radio Paradise and Qobuz have become my main music sources, both for discovery and for old favourites
Pete

Linn Axis, Kinki, Källa (GS308T+Amplifi HD x 2 + BJC), Boazu, Espeks
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