HAKAI Build Help?

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tokenbrit
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HAKAI Build Help?

Post by tokenbrit »

The Nano160 arrived, finally, so I started looking at how the pieces would go together inside the Streacom F1CWS case... If I try to attach the Intel 320 to the underside of the cage, per the instructions, the SSD is too flush to the cage to be able to plug in the power connector. I can either:

a) install the SSD vertically to the side as suggested in the instructions for primary drives, or...
b) use the rubber 'donuts', meant for mechanical drives, hopefully to space the SSD enough to seat the power plug.

Is everyone installing their SSD vertically? Otherwise, how have you installed your 320 SSD(s) in the F1CWS?

In case it makes a difference, my 320 SSD is one of those with the spacer on the top - I only have the option to mount it flat to the underside of the cage (upside-down) or to the side of the motherboard, attached between the cage & the base. My preference was to attach it to the underside of the cage as I thought mounting it flat would be better thermally than on its side, but that may be of less concern in this implementation, especially since it would then be above the CPU.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by David Neel »

Yes, it's tight, but you can do it. I assemble the cage and disk first, then connect power and sata cables before putting the cage in place and screwing it down. Hope this helps?
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Sopper »

I have the F1CWS evo
The ssd is screwed just under the top plate on a rooster.

In the end I don’t think it matters much, horizontal or vertical.
The FC1CWS evo is getting pretty warm, I don’t really like it.

I have build the HAKAI NAS in a FC5 alpha
This one is running much more cooler since it has way more space and thus metal to dispense the heat.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by tokenbrit »

David Neel wrote: 2018-12-30 10:25 .. I assemble the cage and disk first, then connect power and sata cables...
I'm struggling to see how. If I screw the SSD to the cage I can't connect the power cable: the connector has a lip that fouls the cage. That's why I was curious about a spacer or a mount for the SSD to allow clearance for the power connector.
Since it'll be warm(er) above the CPU, I may just install the SSD vertically, to the side, assuming there's no musical reason why not.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Paaf »

Attach the tiny adhesive rubber rings which gives a bit more space for the two connectors. Then attach the connectors and then screw the ssd to the metal plate.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by David Neel »

It's a tight fit, but I've done it several times. Are you mounting the SSD with the connectors facing the rear of the case?
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by tokenbrit »

Thanks Paaf, that's what I thought I might have to do even though the instructions only say to use the little rubber rings for mechanical or optical drives, not solid state...
Yes, DN - connectors facing the rear... If I connect the SSD first, then attach it to the cage, it looks like the ridge on the power connector will be in contact with the cage, unless I use the little rubber rings, or something, as spacers.

Is there any reason *not* to mount the SSD vertically? Doing so means the SSD isn't above the CPU, and allows all connections to be made before putting the cage on, at the end of the build, and only then to support the top of the drive - otherwise the cage doesn't appear to serve any purpose with a solitary SSD, vertically mounted, and no fan.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by tokenbrit »

Getting ready to re-image the hardware as a HAKAI build based on Sopper's instructions... I have a couple of questions regarding the DAC, and the USB ports on the GA-N3160 m'board:

Is there any general preference between the USB ports for connecting the ESI DAC? ESI's specs say the HD+ is USB 1.1, but compatible with USB 2.0 controllers... The GA-N3160 m'board has 2 X USB 3.0 ports compatible with 2.0, and 2 X USB 2.0 ports compatible with 1.1
I plugged my DAC into one of the 2.0 ports, assuming the fewer compatibilities the better, but wondered if anyone was using their Gigaport plugged into a USB 3.0 port?

I was surprised to see the DAC's power LED shine bright blue even though the HAKAI wasn't on. Presumably USB power is always on even though the m'board isn't booted up/on? Are other's finding their HD+ 'always on', and do you leave it like this, or unplug it .. or unplug the ps to the HAKAI?
Alternatively, I guess I could look into script options to disable the USB port at system power down, if that would work...
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Sopper »

Try all USB ports, they can differ in sound quality.
I haven’t noticed power on USB when the HAKAI is off... but then again, mine is always on.
Can check tomorrow
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by ThomasOK »

Yes, I noticed ESI power on with HAKAI shut down. You have to disconnect the power supply to stop power to the USB port. I only discovered this when I was trying to isolate some RF interference on the SINGularity and found that powering down the HAKAI left on the ESI, which was a source of the RF. However, the problem was actually due to a ground loop between the SINGularity and the Urika, which was still inside my LP12. Disconnecting power from the Urika made it go away.

I have not tried different USB ports for musicality.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Paaf »

My ESI is also on, while HAKAI is off. (Although I usually leave HAKAI on.)

The blue lights are disturbingly intense, I have placed something to block the view of them.

I think modern USB ports are providing power so that people can charge their phones etc even when the computer is not running.

One of my USB ports is better than the others.
Last edited by Paaf on 2019-01-05 14:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Sopper »

@tokenbrit: do you have the HAKAI up and running now? Impressions please :)
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Lego »

Sopper wrote: 2018-12-30 10:25 I have the F1CWS evo
The ssd is screwed just under the top plate on a rooster.

In the end I don’t think it matters much, horizontal or vertical.
The FC1CWS evo is getting pretty warm, I don’t really like it.

I have build the HAKAI NAS in a FC5 alpha
This one is running much more cooler since it has way more space and thus metal to dispense the heat.
Was there an improvement in sound quality?
I know that tune
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Sopper »

Lego wrote: 2019-01-05 15:00
Sopper wrote: 2018-12-30 10:25 I have build the HAKAI NAS in a FC5 alpha
Was there an improvement in sound quality?
I haven’t compared the 2 different cases yet.
Will do so when I have time; 1 of both goes for sale, since I never use the NAS.
(Don’t have much music on the NAS and always stream with Qobuz Sublime+)
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by tokenbrit »

Sopper wrote: 2019-01-05 13:44 @tokenbrit: do you have the HAKAI up and running now? Impressions please :)
It's not a HAKAI just yet. I have been getting used to the hardware configuration necessary - bios, realtek firmware, second LAN, etc. - using a desktop environment first... Plan is to add mpd & upmp this weekend, and run the DAC for a week or so, then rebuild as headless using your instructions and my config cheat sheet. Will post impressions once it's up & running .. soon ;)
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Paaf »

When I walk on the floor here, there is a rattling from inside my HAKAI. Of course, knocking gently on the rack board gives the same rattling.

It reminds me that I'm not very happy about how I put the cables inside. For instance, the internal power cable going from the motherboard to the SSD continues to two more unused connectors. I just stuffed them inside because I didn't know how to do it properly. Probably the plastic of the connectors touch the case causing the rattling sound.

What's a neat and tuneful way to "manage" the cables inside?
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by tokenbrit »

I don't know about tuneful...
I installed the SSD vertically to the side of m'board so that it wasn't sitting above the cpu. This allowed me to route the cable to the side of the cpu too, with the remaining, unused cables propped on the back ventilation 'shelf' of the case above the back panel connectors.
I thought about using cable ties and securing the unused cables to the underside of the ventilated mounting plate, but the arrangement above worked well enough for me.
Hope that helps.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by markiteight »

This is how my HAK-NAS is currently wired:

Image

Being the NAS there are 3 drives so the wires are a bit more packed in there. I chose to use zip ties because otherwise it becomes a veritable rats nest. Only the power wires are zip tied, the data cables I tried to route so they lay loose and free and come in contact with as few other bits as possible.

For HAKAI I plan to mount the drive vertically as Tokenbrit has done. I like the fact that the vertical drive attaches to both the bottom plate and the upper "drive tray" and becomes an additional anchor point for that tray. Tapping on the tray after it's installed produces quite a rattle, even with two drives attached to it. Of course with just the one drive the tray could be eliminated altogether. More experiments. I plan to just zip tie the unused connectors on the SATA power harness to the rest of the harness. I don't like the idea of loose cables flopping around in such a confined space. I've considered removing the unused bits from the harness, but as that is a rather permanent act I'll save it for down the road.

Will any of this make a musical difference? Time will tell. But first I need to persuade this thing to behave like a NAS. It's being resoundingly recalcitrant.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Paaf »

Very nice, guys. I didn't try vertical simply because I thought the ssd would then have to hang on the tray with only two contact points.

I wonder why your tray rattles. Is it the contact between drives and tray? Do you use the tiny rubber rings?

Do zip ties affect tunefulness? I would conjecture that it does - but I didn't try it.

Yeah, getting them to run well is an issue much more complex and important than rattling. :)
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by markiteight »

Paaf wrote: 2019-01-19 00:08 Very nice, guys. I didn't try vertical simply because I thought the ssd would then have to hang on the tray with only two contact points.
I assumed the opposite - that the drive would locate to the bottom plate only. I was pleasantly surprised when I fitted the upper tray and discovered two holes lining up nicely with the threaded mounts on the drive.
Paaf wrote: 2019-01-19 00:08 I wonder why your tray rattles. Is it the contact between drives and tray? Do you use the tiny rubber rings?
The drives are snug and secure to the tray, sans rubber rings. The rattle was worst with nothing installed, much better with the two drives in place, and better still with the third vertical drive attached, but it's still there. I have no clue to what extent this may or may not affect the performance, but it shouldn't be that hard to find out...if (when?) I ever get it going!
Paaf wrote: 2019-01-19 00:08 Do zip ties affect tunefulness? I would conjecture that it does - but I didn't try it.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you're right. One more thing to try. Even if we ultimately determine that zip ties diminish the tune I'd still use them - at least during the initial build. They can be quite useful for persuading wiring harnesses to go where you want them to go, then once the wires have taken a set the ties can be removed and the wires *should* remain in a relatively orderly state.
Paaf wrote: 2019-01-19 00:08 Yeah, getting them to run well is an issue much more complex and important than rattling. :)
And how! I'm about ready to shelve this endeavor and go back to my other project: a car. At least there the issues are mechanical and I can SEE what's wrong!

Note to self: One project at a time! Patience can only be stretched so thin.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by Paaf »

I suggest you try OMV with MiniDLNA to get it running, then you can try even better versions later.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by markiteight »

Paaf wrote: 2019-01-19 01:00 I suggest you try OMV with MiniDLNA to get it running, then you can try even better versions later.
No can do. Every time I try to boot into the OMV installer from a USB thumb drive the display is scrunched into a 2cm tall band across the top of the screen. It managed to display correctly once, but never since.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by tokenbrit »

Are you still set on OMV, or did you try the simple Debian Stretch install that I posted, and it's still not working?
One other thing to mention is to reset the motherboard to its defaults before starting any install... Since you have 3 disks installed, and a usb thumbdrive with the netinst image of Stretch, presumably, you might want to make sure that all 3+1 drives are recognised by the BIOS, as expected, and that you're installing the os to the appropriate SSD.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by markiteight »

tokenbrit wrote: 2019-01-19 05:29 Are you still set on OMV, or did you try the simple Debian Stretch install that I posted, and it's still not working?
I am set on whatever works. I did not try your suggestion because it assumes a certain level of knowledge that I lack.

At one point I did manage to successfully install OMV but couldn't do anything with it. Gave up.

I went back to Debian (the full GUI version) and installed minimserver, but I get an error message when I launch it saying it can't find any music files. I can't transfer any music until I figure out how to get it to behave like a NAS. I can't get into disc manager to check the status of the data drives because I don't have permission to do so. I tried installing minidlna but get an error and the install aborts. Gave up.

Then I came across this:
Lego wrote: 2018-09-27 16:29 https://youtu.be/gT-EGNl9bZA
which showed me what I was missing the first time around so I decided to give OMV another try, but the display is screwed up and I can't even begin the install. Towel in hand, about to be thrown.
tokenbrit wrote: 2019-01-19 05:29 One other thing to mention is to reset the motherboard to its defaults before starting any install...
What do you mean?
tokenbrit wrote: 2019-01-19 05:29 Since you have 3 disks installed, and a usb thumbdrive with the netinst image of Stretch, presumably, you might want to make sure that all 3+1 drives are recognised by the BIOS, as expected, and that you're installing the os to the appropriate SSD.
I have a USB thumb drive with the .iso image of OMV. All 4 drives are recognized in the bios. I can't even see the first page to start the install process, so I'm about 20 steps away from determining what drive to install to.
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Re: HAKAI Build Help?

Post by tokenbrit »

So you have managed to install OMV once and, separately, also managed to install Stretch & MinimServer... Stretch will require some knowledge to enable shares like a NAS so I'll stick with OMV, if you haven't thrown the towel in already.

Backing up a bit:
What motherboard do you have - is it a Gigabyte GA-N3160N?
What OMV image do you have and how did you get it onto the thumb drive?
- it looks like the latest installation image of OMV (that should work on a GA-N3160N) is openmediavault_4.1.3-amd64.iso
- from the YouTube video you shared, Etcher seems to be the recommended application for writing the .iso file to a USB thumb drive.
I am assuming that you are trying to install OMV to one of your SSDs, not run it from the USB thumb drive...

If you're working with the expected motherboard, iso, & used Etcher, then on to the next step...

What monitor/screen do you have, and how is it connected to the computer?
- is it connected to DVI (the bigger white port) or VGA/D-Sub (the smaller black port?)
I'm assuming you have a GA- N3160N that looks like this at the back - the connectors for the monitor should look the same even if you're using a different motherboard.
- are you using an adapter of any sort to connect the monitor, or just a straightforward cable that has the same type of connectors on either end?
I'm going to assume that the monitor cable isn't loose on either end since you indicated that you did Stretch & MinimSever installed, but it might be worth double checking that the cable is plugged in properly, with thumbscrews tightened a little, both ends...

If everything is connected ok with the monitor, and you're not using an adapter, then next step...

From your comment about that the "4 drives are recognized" tells me you are ok getting in & out of the bios. What I meant about making sure to 'reset the motherboard to its defaults' is in the bios. If you haven't thrown towel or computer out the window, and are prepared to give it another go, boot up the computer and enter the bios - there should be a tab near the that says 'Save & Exit'. Click on that then, under Default Options, you should see Restore Defaults. Click to restore the bios to its default settings:

Code: Select all

Restore Defaults
Press <Enter> on this item and select Yes to load the BIOS factory default settings. The BIOS defaults
settings help the system to operate in optimum state.
After this, you probably want to check that the boot priority is still USB thumb drive first. If it is, then you should be good to save & exit the bios. Looks like that should be F4 according to the manual - I don't have bios access on my HAKAI at the moment to confirm...

Did any of that help, or are you still getting a screwed up display?
- if the display is ok then you should be able to follow the YouTube video that you posted...
- if the display is screwed up, can you share a photo of it so that we might try to diagnose?
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