Volumio.

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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Sopper
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper » 2018-12-13 19:22

tokenbrit wrote:
2018-12-13 19:08

If I get this right, we now have a myriad of options:
Volumio; default MPD (Jessie)
Volumio; 0.20.xx MPD (Jessie)
upmpdcli and 0.21.xx MPD (Stretch)
I would skip Volumio default MPD and go directly to Volumio with MPD 0.20.23 and Upmpdcli 1.3.8.
The first will get you frustrated… at least it did with me, haha
tokenbrit wrote:
2018-12-13 19:08
The above would be with media server on a NAS, and a DS-style control point. Additionally, NAS & Volumio can be configured to use NFS; bypassing the media server on the NAS with control through the Volumio UI... Is that about right?
That's right. But Volumio-ui is really not that great...
tokenbrit wrote:
2018-12-13 19:08
Seems like MPD can also be configured to use NFS, either running on the Hakai, or on the NAS as a (music) file server, but I'm unclear what the 'control point' would be for these...
I read that too, but i'm not sure how this will show up in a control point. I should google this option..
tokenbrit wrote:
2018-12-13 19:08
I've used NFS to copy my music files from old- to new-NAS, and am happy with minimserver running on Debian Stretch on the NAS. BubbleDS Next works nicely on my Android devices, but will compare with Kazoo once the Hakai is up & running. At the moment, my preference will be to build the Hakai using Stretch, and latest upmpdcli & MPD - should give me a bit more control than the Volumio install too. Hopefully it sounds as good or better than Volumio.

Sopper, do you install Debian with a lightweight desktop environment on your Hakai, or just use the command line for everything ... or do you enable SSH from the beginning and do everything remotely -> headless Hakai?
I did this once, so i went for the easy route; with minimum graphical options to guide me through the install proces.
All the updates and installing (build) packages, MPD, Upmpdcli, etc, i did with Putty.
I'm confident that i could repeat this proces without graphical guidance now.
Because Debian Stretch contains far newer packages, installing buildpackages/dependencies and MPD/Upmpdcli is really very easy
Last edited by Sopper on 2018-12-13 19:28, edited 1 time in total.
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-13 19:27

I advise to try turning off X11 and similar as soon as you don't need a screen connected to it any longer. It's likely to impact musicality.

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Re: Volumio.

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-12-13 21:50

Sopper wrote:
2018-12-13 19:22
I would skip Volumio default MPD and go directly to Volumio with MPD 0.20.23 and Upmpdcli 1.3.8.
The first will get you frustrated… at least it did with me, haha
Why go with Volumio at all - why not just latest upmpdcli & MPD on Stretch/headless Hakai? It seems that most of the frustration stems from Volumio and outdated interfaces & daemons on Jessie? Or is Volumio there to manage other things such as the DAC?
Last edited by tokenbrit on 2018-12-13 22:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper » 2018-12-13 21:56

tokenbrit wrote:
2018-12-13 21:50

Why go with Volumio at all - why not just latest upmpdcli & MPD on Stretch/headless Hakai? It seems that most of the frustration stems from Volumio and outdated interfaces & daemons on Jessie?
True

I will make some clips tomorrow, so we can compare the musical performance between the both.
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Re: Volumio.

Post by lejonklou » 2018-12-13 23:59

tokenbrit wrote:
2018-12-13 21:50
Sopper wrote:
2018-12-13 19:22
I would skip Volumio default MPD and go directly to Volumio with MPD 0.20.23 and Upmpdcli 1.3.8.
The first will get you frustrated… at least it did with me, haha
Why go with Volumio at all - why not just latest upmpdcli & MPD on Stretch/headless Hakai? It seems that most of the frustration stems from Volumio and outdated interfaces & daemons on Jessie? Or is Volumio there to manage other things such as the DAC?
No, Volumio is not really needed. They just happened to write software that sounds really good.

It's likely possible to beat the sound quality of Volumio for someone who:
1. Can program it
2. Understands that EVERY, yes, EVERY change to the program results in a change in the musicality of HAKAI.
3. Can evaluate the differences caused by step 2. This is time consuming!

It's easy to have preconceived and incorrect ideas of how the program should be in order for HAKAI to sound best. Drop those ideas immediately, otherwise the development becomes impossible! For instance:
A: A smaller/simpler program will sound better. FALSE
B: A program that causes HAKAI to run cooler, using less memory/disc space/processing power/energy will sound better. FALSE
C: A program that shuts down unnecessary parts of the motherboard will sound better. FALSE
D: A program that distributes the load across all the processor's cores OR uses less cores will sound better. FALSE
E: This small change of one line of code can't possibly affect sound quality, as it has nothing to do with the data being sent to the DAC. FALSE

The correct answer to A, B, C, D, E and others is that they need to be tested, by listening to the alternative settings. There are no obvious rules that one can follow, but with repeated experiments, dim traces of rules for what sounds better and what doesn't start to appear. Only to soon be questioned once again when an exception appears.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing this work, in fact I applaud it enthusiastically! I'm just saying that's it's way more tricky than most can imagine.

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Re: Volumio.

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-12-14 01:34

Hi Fredrik, I appreciate the warning, the reminder, and the challenge. My coding skills were never up to the task, which leaves me with Volumio, or upmpdcli & mpd independently of Volumio. Volumio uses upmpdcli & mpd so I thought it'd be interesting to compare, and through has kindly offered to post clips...
When I finally get to build my Hakai, I can partition my 300Gb 320 into 2: one for Volumio; another for Debian Stretch with mpd & upmpdcli... Did you try that renderer on its own by any chance, as part of the streamer work/research/spin-off, or just included in Volumio? upmpdcli has been integrated with Volumio, to provide the upnp/dlna control, since Volumio 1.4 so maybe upmpdcli & mpd, ideally configured, are what make Volumio musical.
Volumio 'out-of-the-box' seems unreliable and requires a bit of effort to patch. Curious what impact the patches have, if any, on the musicality of Volumio, vs living with the issues, or compared against upmpdcli & mpd on Stretch, without Volumio for the UI. As you advised, we'll have to listen.

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Re: Volumio.

Post by fatjulio » 2018-12-15 04:57

I've successfully updated mpd and everything works wonderfully. No more stopping or not playing. Thank you Sopper.

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper » 2018-12-15 08:58

fatjulio wrote:
2018-12-15 04:57
I've successfully updated mpd and everything works wonderfully. No more stopping or not playing. Thank you Sopper.
You’re most welcome, glad I could help.
Enjoy the music!
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-16 03:02

When I try to a) play a song from NAS b) play radio for a while c) play a song from NAS again, I get stuck on step c) unless I first go to Kazoo Playlist -> Edit -> Delete All (in the windows app, similarly in the Android app).

Could someone please check if they have the same issue?

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper » 2018-12-16 08:34

Paaf wrote:
2018-12-16 03:02
When I try to a) play a song from NAS b) play radio for a while c) play a song from NAS again, I get stuck on step c) unless I first go to Kazoo Playlist -> Edit -> Delete All (in the windows app, similarly in the Android app).

Could someone please check if they have the same issue?
Confirmed by JF
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

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Re: Volumio.

Post by flojo » 2018-12-16 17:49

Om my Stretch/MPD/Upmpdcli my Kazoo crashes when switching from b to c. Need to restart Kazoo.

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper » 2018-12-16 18:04

This is a quote from Jean Francois in response of my emails:

You will probably find out that there are still problems when switching
between radio and playlist with Kazoo. Kazoo compatibility will be improved
in the next version.
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-17 02:37

I have noticed another weirdness. After playing several songs, Android Kazoo stops updating the field below with the current song. I have to kill the app and restart it, to make it again show the current song.

Which in itself has issues, because I may have to try a few times before the app actually starts. The most common result after starting the app is an empty black screen. Other times it crashes completely.

(And weirdly, the last two days it almost never shows my HAKAI NAS.. although other apps finds it fine.)

Does it happen to anyone else?

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper » 2018-12-17 11:10

No real/big problems with Kazoo on iPad here
What server are you running @ HAKAI Nas?
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-17 16:12

Interesting. Perhaps Linn develops it for iOS and then converts it sloppily to Android.

The NAS has Openmediavault with Minidlna. It seems to work quite well.

Kazoo is not showing it for almost two days now. I cleared all program data, uninstalled it and installed again. Same thing. BUT, you can play radio fine with Kazoo.

Meanwhile, BubbleDS works fine with the NAS - but gives an error when trying radio.

Adding to the confusion, songs that are added from BubbleDS can be controlled by Kazoo.

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper » 2018-12-17 16:49

Paaf wrote:
2018-12-17 16:12
Adding to the confusion, songs that are added from BubbleDS can be controlled by Kazoo.
That's a setting in Upmpdcli that causes this:
ownqueue = 1 (bij default)

I am running OMV + Minidlna aswell and i have no trouble whatsoever; Kazoo always show miniDlna
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Re: Volumio.

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-12-17 19:38

Hi Paaf, have you restarted your router & DHCP server, and do you use static IPs? Did you try clearing the Kazoo cache on Android?

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-17 20:25

tokenbrit wrote:Hi Paaf, have you restarted your router & DHCP server, and do you use static IPs? Did you try clearing the Kazoo cache on Android?
Thank you.

I do use static IP for both the NAS and the HAKAI. I rebooted the NAS and the switch, and I did clear the app cache on the phone, as well as even uninstalled and re-installed the app. Everything but the kitchen sink (aka router. :) )

Everything else could reach the NAS, I tried FTP from two computers and from the phone, SSH from two computers, the web admin GUI from two computers, as well as BubbleDS from the phone, and all worked without any issues - it therefore seemed illogical that restarting the router would help.

HOWEVER, in desperation I did so now and now Kazoo finds the NAS for the first time in days. :)

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Re: Volumio.

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-12-17 21:29

Nothing as frustrating as e-things not working / behaving illogically... No idea whether it was Kazoo or your router misbehaving, but glad that helped.
I use reserved IPs here, which you think would keep things stable, but I still end up rebooting the router about once a month; the cable modem every few months... The router is typically the easiest component to restart, and that often keeps glitches or gremlins from creeping in, or prompts a recalcitrant device or app back into line.

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-17 22:09

It's maddening at times. I haven't noticed a need for a separate router, I simply use the dhcp of the fiber modem, and the two ethernet ports there, one for a stationary PC and the other for a switch.

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-18 14:27

Kazoo lost the NAS again. That didn't take long. It's amazing that such a poorly written app can play music so well. lol

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Re: Volumio.

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-12-18 18:56

Paaf wrote:
2018-12-18 14:27
Kazoo lost the NAS again. That didn't take long...
When you say static IP, I'm not sure whether you mean configured on the NAS and the HAKAI, or in DHCP. Does your fiber-modem-router-dhcp allow you to reserve IPs, usually by MAC address? If so, you might want to try reserving an address for the Android device running Kazoo, too. It shouldn't but it could be that the app is getting confused by wifi IP address changes. Picking up the same reserved IP each time the Android device connects to your home wifi may help Kazoo. Worth a try.

Also, have you looked to see if Android lets you specify a router, again by MAC address, so that you know it's not trying to roam to other routers/networks while at home?

Otherwise, there's the Kazoo app settings: check Subnets & Rescan Network. I know you've reinstalled Kazoo, but have you tried clearing Kazoo's app data, not just clear cache, and going through the app setup again?

If all else fails, check that you haven't turned off wifi on your Android device, for some reason ;)

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-18 19:39

I set the fixed IP on the HAKAI- and NAS- side because I didn't find a way to do it on the router. First I cleared app cache, then I removed all data. There is only one subnet to select. Rescan network gives no sign at all that it was pressed. Only one router in my home, although of course there are several dozens from my neighbors. Sometimes I switch on and off VPN on the phone. Perhaps that confuses Kazoo - although it doesn't seem to confuse any other apps. Kazoo on a laptop reaches the NAS.

BubbleDS on the same phone has no problem accessing the NAS, so I don't think that wifi is off. :)

Kazoo freezes or crashes 4 times out of 5 when I start it, and there is also the incorrect current song status, so let's just say they need to work a bit more on the Android version over in Glasgow. :)

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Lego » 2018-12-29 13:05

I find this works well. Pick an album from your library and play album , then close Kazoo, listen to the album and when album finishes open Kazoo, then play another album and close kazoo then listen to the album and so on and so on. I know it does seem a very strange way to listen to music but you do find yourself listening to music
I know that tune

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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf » 2019-01-02 15:53

Lego, thanks for your suggestion, however, you forgot that it's impossible to play an album if the app doesn't even see the NAS. :)

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