HAKAI playground

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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David Neel
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

Last edited by David Neel on 2018-09-18 18:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou »

Great work David!

We arranged a test of J3455N-D3H, but for some reason the board doesn't work.

Am I right if I guess that both of these boards are new? Not one new and one run in.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Charlie1 »

I prefer the first clip in each pair. Second seems drunk / seasick with the tune off pitch and/or wavering.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit »

Thanks for posting. I find the second posted clip of each song to be more intimate, relaxed, accomplished, communicative, and engaging.

And now I am LOL having just read Charlie1's quite opposite impression :)
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

One board has about about 10-20 hours cumulative time. The other has about 2 hours. Also, I've not yet tried to find the best USB port on either.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou »

OK!

I'm with tokenbrit here. Second clips I find more intimate and engaging.

At the same time, Charlie is right in that the first clips seem more pitch accurate. I am not sure whether this is the case in the room, however.

My experience with these simple recorded clips is that, while very revealing in some ways, certain aspects can be deceiving. I find pitch accuracy to be one of them. And also when there's a sense of clarity, like "on this clip, I can really hear what's happening", it can be misleading as in the room it's completely stiff and unbalanced.

Trying to actively connect emotionally when hearing the clips is what works best for me. And when I do that the second ones feel a little better to me.

Apologies for perhaps stating some obvious things.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Charlie1 »

tokenbrit wrote:And now I am LOL having just read Charlie1's quite opposite impression :)
Ha, :)
I just had another listen but on a different laptop. I still find something 'odd' about clip 2. However, on the second piece of music, there is a burst of piano towards the end and I too found that better on clip 2. So, a bit mixed for me now.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

Ok, I may have thrown a bit of a curveball here! I chose both tracks because they are difficult to get right, poor kit won't get either of them going very well. In the first clip, Christine Tobin's voice can easily sound off-pitch and the tune gets lost. In the second clip, there should be tension and propulsion as the piece slowly builds.

I'll set the new board to run overnight and catch up on burn-in time, but won't repeat any clips unless there's a material difference.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

lejonklou wrote:OK!

I'm with tokenbrit here. Second clips I find more intimate and engaging.

At the same time, Charlie is right in that the first clips seem more pitch accurate. I am not sure whether this is the case in the room, however.

My experience with these simple recorded clips is that, while very revealing in some ways, certain aspects can be deceiving. I find pitch accuracy to be one of them. And also when there's a sense of clarity, like "on this clip, I can really hear what's happening", it can be misleading as in the room it's completely stiff and unbalanced.

Trying to actively connect emotionally when hearing the clips is what works best for me. And when I do that the second ones feel a little better to me.

Apologies for perhaps stating some obvious things.
Very useful comments, thank you. I am finding, as I experiment with these clips, that they don't always correspond with what's going on in the room - sometimes big differences in the room sound pretty marginal on the clips, and vice versa.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Charlie1 »

I prefer the second clip on both pieces now.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Azazello »

Second! Substantial difference to me.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Spannko »

It’s the 1st clips for me guys!

With the 2nd clips, both the rhythm and tune seem compromised. After listening to each one about 6 times, the second clips start to sound pretty uninteresting compared to the 1st clips.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

In the room, only one makes me want to carry on listening.... so I'll give an overnight run on mute to see what burn-in does.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck »

Spannko wrote:It’s the 1st clips for me guys!

With the 2nd clips, both the rhythm and tune seem compromised. After listening to each one about 6 times, the second clips start to sound pretty uninteresting compared to the 1st clips.
I like your way of testing Spannko. I have a difficult time when comparing digital playback clips but if I can trust what I hear using my ipad via their earphones and through my system I end up on team Charlie1/ part 1 and Spannko. :-)
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

I will post some new clips of J3455N-D3H vs N3050N-D2P later, having run the newer board overnight. This will mean removing the earlier clips of this comparison to make space in dropbox. So last chance on yesterday's clips!
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK »

tokenbrit wrote:Thanks for posting. I find the second posted clip of each song to be more intimate, relaxed, accomplished, communicative, and engaging.
+1 I am still listening to the second clip of the piano piece as I type this as I find it quite enjoyable. The #1 clips aren't horrible but seem somehow constricted and don't move me as much.

I fully agree with David and Fredrik that clips don't always give the full story that you hear in room. This dichotomy has happened with a few clips I have put up here in the past. But I do find that it often does let you hear what is more musical, especially when the differences are relatively large or overwhelmingly in one direction.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck »

This has reinforced my 1. clip preference. I wonder of this will end in a kind of source first/pre first discussion........
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by kallesprätt »

I just listened with my phone, and I prefer the second clips by some margin.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

beck wrote:This has reinforced my 1. clip preference. I wonder of this will end in a kind of source first/pre first discussion........
Ah, but did I keep the same order of clips....?
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck »

David Neel wrote:
beck wrote:This has reinforced my 1. clip preference. I wonder of this will end in a kind of source first/pre first discussion........
Ah, but did I keep the same order of clips....?
Then let me refrase: I prefer the 1. clips in this latest comparison. :-)
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper »

kallesprätt wrote:I just listened with my phone, and I prefer the second clips by some margin.
I did with headphones @ iPad
Liked the 2nd clips more
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit »

Struggling this time... There are elements to each that are communicative, and others that are irritating.
Not sure if it's the track selection that I can't relate to through the clips, or something more fundamental with the streamer. Could it be that the performance through burn-in hasn't settled down yet?
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

tokenbrit wrote:Struggling this time... There are elements to each that are communicative, and others that are irritating.
Not sure if it's the track selection that I can't relate to through the clips, or something more fundamental with the streamer. Could it be that the performance through burn-in hasn't settled down yet?
I agree. I'd like the best aspects of each, they are very different. I agree with most of the comments here, even where they are apparently contradictory! And I'm not sure about the burn-in, each has 20+ usage hours at the moment which may well be inadequate. But the defining characteristics of each have remained constant. I'll reveal which is which tomorrow....
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou »

tokenbrit wrote:Struggling this time... There are elements to each that are communicative, and others that are irritating.
Not sure if it's the track selection that I can't relate to through the clips, or something more fundamental with the streamer. Could it be that the performance through burn-in hasn't settled down yet?
I agree.

I think there's a directness and precision in the number 1 clips that seems lacking in number 2. But there's also an atmosphere, especially in the lower mids (I must apologise for being so analytical this time, but the differences are multiple and I have to take them apart) that is really communicative in number 2.

Tough one. Probably easier in the room, I suspect.
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