HAKAI playground

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by springwood64 »

Here are two clips comparing 2 separate Snakeoil configurations.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipM ... tJYUU1RjlB
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit »

springwood64 wrote: 2020-11-12 13:05 Here are two clips comparing 2 separate Snakeoil configurations.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipM ... tJYUU1RjlB
A on quick listen but found the percussion a bit distracting in both and couldn't help wondering if that's from the slightly unusual recording position... Would the clips sound different if recorded from a position closer to where your head would be when you listen to music? Or do you listen sitting on the floor? :) I know, from one of Thomas's posts, that there were speakers tuned for listening prone, but thought that was down to '60s influences ;)
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck »

To me the second clip is more to my liking. It is like a soup that has gained a good umami taste over night.

I like it. :-)
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Kalle05 »

beck wrote: 2020-11-12 14:38 To me the second clip is more to my liking. It is like a soup that has gained a good umami taste over night.

I like it. :-)
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by springwood64 »

tokenbrit wrote: 2020-11-12 14:00 A on quick listen but found the percussion a bit distracting in both and couldn't help wondering if that's from the slightly unusual recording position... Would the clips sound different if recorded from a position closer to where your head would be when you listen to music? Or do you listen sitting on the floor? :) I know, from one of Thomas's posts, that there were speakers tuned for listening prone, but thought that was down to '60s influences ;)
That's an interesting question. I'll look at recording clips at head height in future. I'm 1/3 of the way through speaker position tuning, which might also be a factor.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by springwood64 »

Clip A: CPU 0, 1, 2 allocated to user (mpd, upmpdcli, irq/119-xhci_hc), 3 to system (everything else)

Clip B: CPU 0 allocated to user, 1, 2, 3 to system

I was surprised that this made such a difference. In the room I'm not sure which I prefer. I think I will revisit it once I have finished tuning the speaker positions.

I think I will do some further refinement of this. Maybe start by tuning the allocation of CPUs for just one process, and then add in other processes to determine which need to be real-time and share the CPU allocation.

From a source-first perspective I should probably start with mpd, then irq/119-xhci_hc.

I am beginning to suspect that upmpdcli should NOT be included (as I think it manages the playlist but not the playback), but this means dropping Snakeoil's mechanism and setting it all up myself.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK »

I'm late to the game so it isn't blind but I definitely prefer the second clip. Nice choice of music, one of my favorite songs. Reminds me a lot of a relationship I had a little over 20 years ago. There is a very good video that goes with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlJew-Dw87I

Originally posted in the wrong thread.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck »

ThomasOK wrote: 2020-11-14 18:54 I'm late to the game so it isn't blind but I definitely prefer the second clip. Nice choice of music, one of my favorite songs. Reminds me a lot of a relationship I had a little over 20 years ago. There is a very good video that goes with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlJew-Dw87I

Originally posted in the wrong thread.
I agree that this is some of the best work done by Helena Christensen! ;-)
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Re: HAKAI playground

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego »

I know that tune
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by markiteight »

Slight preference for B, definite preference for D.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by OscarH »

B and C.

There’s been so much consensus lately :)
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck »

markiteight wrote: 2021-01-26 05:16 Slight preference for B, definite preference for D.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by V.A.MKD »

A & D for me ...

Nice music David, please give more info for both ...
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit »

A & D for me too, please - felt more nuanced, intimate...
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

The music was (A, B) Sudovian Dance, from Spark of Life, Marcin Wasilewski Trio and Joakim Milder. C and D were Anthem, from A Thousand Kisses Deep, Christine Tobin.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

The differences were that A and C had the Hakai running a 300GB Intel 320 with Debian Stretch, controlled from Kazoo via AssetUPnP on the LSNAS. B and D were from a 160GB Intel 320 with Volumio 2.411 running MPD 21.16, with Volumio accessing the files directly.

Although I had done this comparison a while back, and chosen Volumio, I had been getting dissatisfied recently, so went back to Debian. However, doing the comparison has lifted the performance of Volumio over what I've been hearing recently, so here's a pair of clips, both with Volumio. Can anybody hear a difference between the SSD outside the case (to ease the previous comparisons) and bolted back in? (That's not the only detail change since I was dissatisfied, I also changed the shelf position - but one element at a time.)

Out: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3qckwx7856840 ... 3.mp4?dl=0
In: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0f8uoah9vhd1 ... 9.mp4?dl=0
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Re: HAKAI playground

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David Neel wrote: 2021-01-26 21:03 The differences were that A and C had the Hakai running a 300GB Intel 320 with Debian Stretch, controlled from Kazoo via AssetUPnP on the LSNAS. B and D were from a 160GB Intel 320 with Volumio 2.411 running MPD 21.16, with Volumio accessing the files directly.
Great, so I picked one of each... Of course :D

Just out of interest, what version of MPD are you running on Stretch - still on 21.5?

I'm in the process of doing the same comparison here between Debian and Volumio, but with Debian Buster rather than Stretch, and with MPD 21.11 on Buster vs 21.16 on Volumio... I was going to start with both playing from my NAS. I hope to post clips soon(ish ;)

If possible, after Buster vs Volumio with different versions of MPD, I'd like to see if I can get 21.16 on Buster to make it a straight comparison.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-01-26 22:01 Just out of interest, what version of MPD are you running on Stretch - still on 21.5?
Yes. Based on your record with the last comparison, how do you feel about an opinion on the current one? :D

PS: Don't worry, it's very close in the room...
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit »

David Neel wrote: 2021-01-26 22:23
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-01-26 22:01 Just out of interest, what version of MPD are you running on Stretch - still on 21.5?
Yes. Based on your record with the last comparison, how do you feel about an opinion on the current one? :D

PS: Don't worry, it's very close in the room...
Why not :) 'In' sounded a bit more vibrant, bordering on splashy. 'Out' took that brighter edge off, but sounded a fraction less engaging... problem is, I tend to be sensitive to bright recordings so found 'out' easier to listen to, but was left wondering whether the recordings did justice to the difference, more so than being comfortable picking a musical winner. Is that on the fence enough? :D

Going back to your previous clips, I found & find AvB easier than CvD. I'd love to be consistent for one - Debian or Volumio - but my ears & brain find it difficult to pick consistently between C & D, for some reason, despite knowing the setups... Reading your post tho', it sounds like it's clearer for you in favour of Volumio, in the room... both songs, correct?
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-01-26 23:38 Reading your post tho', it sounds like it's clearer for you in favour of Volumio, in the room... both songs, correct?
No. I was listening to the Volumio Hakai with it sharing a shelf with Gigaport HD+ and Entity. Then I recorded the Debian clips first, but took the Kremlin away from the top shelf so that I could use it to remove the top of the Hakai case and do the comparison without continually moving and re-screwing the case. This gave a noticeable improvement over what I was used to. So I imagined that I may have been wrong to prefer Volumio after I duplicated kallesprat's comparison last year. So much that I focused on holding the phone steady for the clips rather than listening. I was surprised that Volumio was universally, well, almost;) preferred - in my head, Debian had this won. So when I went back and actually listened to my clips again, I realised that Volumio was better than I had thought. On a par with Debian. In the room Debian is perhaps slightly more sonorous, but Volumio is now, again, on form. The differences between my memory of recent listening and the clips are presumably accounted for by the changes I made, i.e. different shelf placement and different SSD placement.

It's been a good lesson in expectation bias...
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit »

David Neel wrote: 2021-01-27 00:07 I recorded the Debian clips first, but took the Kremlin away from the top shelf so that I could use it to remove the top of the Hakai case and do the comparison without continually moving and re-screwing the case. This gave a noticeable improvement over what I was used to...

I was surprised that Volumio was universally, well, almost;) preferred...

It's been a good lesson in expectation bias...
Yes, not universally ;)
Perfect timing tho' as I am listening to Volumio with the lid off, so it's easier to swap the SSD back to Debian - I had been wondering whether I should/could just listen with the SSD outside the case :?
I'm giving Volumio a few days here for the expectation bias & UI/setup irritation to wear off :)
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by V.A.MKD »

David Neel wrote: 2021-01-26 18:56 The music was (A, B) Sudovian Dance, from Spark of Life, Marcin Wasilewski Trio and Joakim Milder. C and D were Anthem, from A Thousand Kisses Deep, Christine Tobin.
Thank you David.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego »

David Neel wrote: 2021-01-26 21:03 The differences were that A and C had the Hakai running a 300GB Intel 320 with Debian Stretch, controlled from Kazoo via AssetUPnP on the LSNAS. B and D were from a 160GB Intel 320 with Volumio 2.411 running MPD 21.16, with Volumio accessing the files directly.

Although I had done this comparison a while back, and chosen Volumio, I had been getting dissatisfied recently, so went back to Debian. However, doing the comparison has lifted the performance of Volumio over what I've been hearing recently, so here's a pair of clips, both with Volumio. Can anybody hear a difference between the SSD outside the case (to ease the previous comparisons) and bolted back in? (That's not the only detail change since I was dissatisfied, I also changed the shelf position - but one element at a time.)

Out: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3qckwx7856840 ... 3.mp4?dl=0
In: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0f8uoah9vhd1 ... 9.mp4?dl=0
On initial listening outside sounded(not musically) better ie inside sounded slightly distorted in the upper register..jeez I hope Fredrik is sleeping ..lol....not much in it but I'd choose outside.I recently built a Hakai Nas with openmediavault but it said my 600 had errors and needed fixing so used it in the streamer initial impressions were a lot more exciting than 300 but a bit rough sounding .I'm going to do clips to be sure .Also with Volumio grabbing music NFS is miles better than cifs ..not even close .
I know that tune
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