HAKAI playground

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2019-01-15 00:22

Small differences, but I think A is the best, B a little worse and C is the worst.

They might be getting progressively clearer, but they also loose a little flow. The initial drumming alone is enough for me, where drummer A is most relaxed and focused.

Incidentally, I felt the same on the first three tracks. B and C simplify. And what happened to the low frequency rumble after the first note? It was there on track A and gone on B and C. Weird! A truck driving by?

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HAKAI playground

Post by Ron The Mon » 2019-01-15 01:52

Paaf wrote:
2019-01-14 19:33
A is the Volumio based HAKAI (with upgraded MPD and Upmpdcli.)
B is the same as A but after killing the Volumio processes
C is the same as B but after also killing the graphics "kiosk" processes, including X11 etc since it would require a screen to be attached to HAKAI anyway.

In my ears, C is best. Surprisingly, the difference is larger between A and B than between B and C.
I agree partially with tokenbrit, "B" is best on second comparison only. First song is still within my margin of error; very little difference between all three.

Paaf, you may not quite understand the activation and elimination of computer processes. If you start a computer and negate a process, that is different than negating the process and restarting the computer with a process not active. There are several apps that allow manipulation of processes actively. I doubt Volumio offers that. If you are stopping processes during a same session, meaning not restarting, you will not get the same result.

I have done MANY comparisons between using and eliminating computer processes and have found that though they can improve the sound, a far larger benefit was increasing the priority of the primary application.

For example, reduce the priority of "kiosk" graphics instead of eliminating it. There are often dependencies which allow a certain app to function. Eliminating it changes its' priority.

Think of it this way, a computer can only perform one function at a time. It may perform many thousand functions per second but one sequence often sounds better than another.

Have you listened to your own samples here you've posted online? I think you may be surprised as to what you've uploaded compared to what you think you have heard prior to that.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Paaf » 2019-01-15 03:01

lejonklou wrote:
2019-01-15 00:22
Small differences, but I think A is the best, B a little worse and C is the worst.
That's very interesting: the complete opposite of my impressions. I'm glad I posted!
The initial drumming alone is enough for me, where drummer A is most relaxed and focused.
There are micro rhythms in the drumming that for me become easy to follow on B and especially C, while the rhythm seems a little more "simplified" on A.
And what happened to the low frequency rumble after the first note? It was there on track A and gone on B and C. Weird! A truck driving by?
Probably someone parking a car outside, driving at low rpm gives a lot of rumble. I no longer register it much myself. It's a dead end street so at least there are no very fast cars driving by.
Last edited by Paaf on 2019-01-15 03:14, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Paaf » 2019-01-15 03:05

Ron The Mon wrote:
2019-01-15 01:52
If you are stopping processes during a same session, meaning not restarting, you will not get the same result.
Probably not identical results, but doing it this way allows for fast ABA testing of something quite interesting.
a far larger benefit was increasing the priority of the primary application.
That's definitely worth looking into!
Have you listened to your own samples here you've posted online? I think you may be surprised as to what you've uploaded compared to what you think you have heard prior to that.
Yes, I have. :)

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Paaf » 2019-01-15 18:10

I today tried switching the priority of the MPD process up and down, using several different songs, but it doesn't make much difference in my HAKAI IMHO.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by NinthWave » 2019-04-02 22:09

About a month ago, a kind guy lent me is non-working HAKAI under the promise I would do my best to make it work. It took me a full day but here is the initial sample: Commercial streamer vs HAKAI. Which is which? Prefered sample?

Waiting for your comments.
  1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h8AJB ... d9UGMyQmSQ
  2. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RjRc1 ... 4LUGgu53zB
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-04-03 10:31

NinthWave wrote:
2019-04-02 22:09
About a month ago, a kind guy lent me is non-working HAKAI under the promise I would do my best to make it work. It took me a full day but here is the initial sample: Commercial streamer vs HAKAI. Which is which? Prefered sample?
  1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h8AJB ... d9UGMyQmSQ
  2. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RjRc1 ... 4LUGgu53zB
Nicolas
I prefer B by quite a big margin. Here the bass and the piano play a tune.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2019-04-03 11:22

Tendaberry wrote:
2019-04-03 10:31
NinthWave wrote:
2019-04-02 22:09
About a month ago, a kind guy lent me is non-working HAKAI under the promise I would do my best to make it work. It took me a full day but here is the initial sample: Commercial streamer vs HAKAI. Which is which? Prefered sample?
  1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h8AJB ... d9UGMyQmSQ
  2. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RjRc1 ... 4LUGgu53zB
Nicolas
I prefer B by quite a big margin. Here the bass and the piano play a tune.
I agree!

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-04-03 12:21

+1 for B

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-04-03 14:47

+1 for B.
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Spannko » 2019-04-04 16:56

+1 for B from me too.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck » 2019-04-04 19:40

This is getting too sugar coated for me to read. :-)

Not judging the sound in the clips (a bit weird) I find the groove in clip A more natural and clip B gives me a headache. Just my 2p.
In need of good ears

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2019-04-04 19:57

beck wrote:
2019-04-04 19:40
This is getting too sugar coated for me to read. :-)

Not judging the sound in the clips (a bit weird) I find the groove in clip A more natural and clip B gives me a headache. Just my 2p.
Come on beck! You don't have to be a contrarian. Sometimes the majority is right, strange as it may seem.

There is no groove in clip A and your sudden headache was probably uncorrelated with you hearing clip B. More likely it was an after effect of just having heard clip A.
;o)

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck » 2019-04-04 19:58

:-)

My ipad or my ears can be broken but I am honest about my opinion.
In need of good ears

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by matthias » 2019-04-04 20:33

B for me.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2019-04-04 21:17

beck wrote:
2019-04-04 19:58
:-)

My ipad or my ears can be broken but I am honest about my opinion.
OK then!

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck » 2019-04-04 21:38

lejonklou wrote:
2019-04-04 21:17
beck wrote: :-)

My ipad or my ears can be broken but I am honest about my opinion.
OK then!
Here is what I get out of this finding it very interesting:

If I listen for what clip that moves me along gently pushing me feeling a flow overall from all the instruments and voice B is “best” but listening for internal togetherness in voice and instruments musical timing I get a better groove (musicians playing together feeling the same groove) in clip A.
I get that A from the “outside” sounds a bit slow but from the inside I feel the musicians play together. Clip B gives me a sense of seperation in how the instruments (and voice) time their playing.

Again just my 2p and I do stand alone.
In need of good ears

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by NinthWave » 2019-04-04 22:25

@Beck What do you mean by "too sugar coated" ? Because it's Norah Jones?
When I visited Thomas OKeefe, I heard this song on different vinyls press and different cables and different speaker placement and I found the piece was "well balanced" in the sense that it was easy from this piece to hear audible differences without hesitation. But then, it was a top of the line system. Now it's a Galaxy S8 .wav taken from an LK series set.

I have a large discography so I am opened to song suggestions for new clips.

Two more clips

Havanna, a version I do like since I don't like the original
  1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1peOfy ... xEjTEXZPmM
  2. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1u9y8E ... 6ifxdfocJw
I can see clearly now
This one was one of the songs the guys at the now defunct "Audio Club" played me to show me different systems. This was in 96 and I was 22 years old and fresh out from University. I could only dream of KLOUTs and Keltik then but I got an Arcam set with AE120s. If Beck can survive his head from beeing blown off by pain until 50sec, this is when piano gets in over contrabass. :-)
  1. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_UO94 ... YAJRooWLeN
  2. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Fhr9d ... 5t3hKNY9Rh
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2019-04-04 22:53

Are A and B the same two streamers, in the same order as in the first two clips, Nicolas?

I would have liked to know which was which, as there was already such consensus around B...

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by NinthWave » 2019-04-04 23:02

lejonklou wrote:
2019-04-04 22:53
Are A and B the same two streamers, in the same order as in the first two clips, Nicolas?

I would have liked to know which was which, as there was already such consensus around B...
Yes it is still the CA SM6V2 vs HAKAI.

I will reveal only tomorrow it they are on the same order as otherwise it would not be "blind" test as one could want to stick to his original opinion. :-)

I have flu with fever since tuesday and my ears are not as sharp today as they should. :-(
Stream Magic 6v2 | HAKAI testing < Kairn < LK140 | LK85 < Ninka AKTIV

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck » 2019-04-04 23:46

Sorry to have been unclear Ninthwave. I only comment on the proces of listening to the recorded clips (not your system!).

I am absolutely sure you have a great sounding system at home that you enjoy.
In need of good ears

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-04-05 14:53

Two clips from months ago (Volumio days). One of the two players is a Hakai. Both used the ESI Gigaport DAC. Preference?

Clip A: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yUjWQ ... 7AXgZ-aAGj

Clip B: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PFUsY ... GMqjpMQEDQ

Happy Friday,

Brian
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by matthias » 2019-04-05 20:04

FairPlayMotty wrote:
2019-04-05 14:53
Two clips from months ago (Volumio days). One of the two players is a Hakai. Both used the ESI Gigaport DAC. Preference?

Clip A: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yUjWQ ... 7AXgZ-aAGj

Clip B: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PFUsY ... GMqjpMQEDQ

Happy Friday,

Brian
I prefer A.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2019-04-05 21:16

FairPlayMotty wrote:
2019-04-05 14:53
Two clips from months ago (Volumio days). One of the two players is a Hakai. Both used the ESI Gigaport DAC. Preference?

Clip A: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yUjWQ ... 7AXgZ-aAGj

Clip B: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PFUsY ... GMqjpMQEDQ

Happy Friday,

Brian
B by a furlong, not even close
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2019-04-06 07:47

matthias wrote:
2019-04-05 20:04
FairPlayMotty wrote:
2019-04-05 14:53
Two clips from months ago (Volumio days). One of the two players is a Hakai. Both used the ESI Gigaport DAC. Preference?

Clip A: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yUjWQ ... 7AXgZ-aAGj

Clip B: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PFUsY ... GMqjpMQEDQ

Happy Friday,

Brian
I prefer A.

Matt
I prefer A as well.

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