HAKAI playground

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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magben02
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by magben02 » 2018-11-23 12:02

Steven Wilson, clip 2 better

Art Ens....., clip 1 better

//Magnus

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Charlie1 » 2018-11-23 15:07

I preferred the opposite to Magnus, although I found it difficult to decide with clip 1, and did briefly prefer clip 2, before going back to clip 1 - both sounded great.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-11-24 04:09

2 x 2 (7736 + 7)

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-11-24 12:02

In the first set clip 2 by a mile
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-11-24 12:05

Sopper wrote:
2018-11-23 11:39
Clips on request HAKAI
ESI Gigaport HD+ vs RME ADI-2 dac

Steven Wilson - Luminol
https://www.dropbox.com/s/py1s2hznjjxqp ... 4.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgxs1hxjhy43g ... 6.MOV?dl=0

Art Ensemble of Chicago - Charlie M
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gw4bicn8ohk64 ... 5.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/km1rvmiz6enme ... 7.MOV?dl=0

I expect people to like RME more with Steven Wilson and ESI with Art Ensemble
Second set clip 1
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-11-24 12:12

So what's so special about this DAC compared to other £1k DACs Sopper?
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-11-24 12:37

Lego wrote:
2018-11-24 12:12
So what's so special about this DAC compared to other £1k DACs Sopper?
It’s measurements are exceptional good; one of the best so far.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru ... -dac.2582/

Waiting for Matt and Thomas before saying which clip is which dac
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-11-24 16:56

Sopper wrote:
2018-11-23 11:39
Clips on request HAKAI
ESI Gigaport HD+ vs RME ADI-2 dac

Steven Wilson - Luminol
https://www.dropbox.com/s/py1s2hznjjxqp ... 4.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgxs1hxjhy43g ... 6.MOV?dl=0

Art Ensemble of Chicago - Charlie M
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gw4bicn8ohk64 ... 5.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/km1rvmiz6enme ... 7.MOV?dl=0

I expect people to like RME more with Steven Wilson and ESI with Art Ensemble
Just had a chance to listen to these. I did not read the other comments first. The clips are good, I am honestly surprised how well those speakers keep up with the Steven Wilson piece. On that one I preferred clip 1 off the bat but both clips sounded good so I went back and forth a few times with different parts of the piece to be sure. But clip 1 just seems to hold everything together better and let you hear each musician's contribution. Instrument tone is better too, especially noticeable on the flute part.

On the second set of clips I also preferred clip 1. This was an easier comparison, possibly because I am not familiar with the piece and already disposed to like it, as I am with the Steven Wilson track. I just found that clip 1 swings better than clip 2 which also sounds a bit squashed compared to clip 1.

As an aside, I haven't listened to that Steven Wilson track for a while and it reminds me what a sponge he is. When he is working on his remasterings he absorbs influences from whichever artist or group he is working on. This generally shows up in his next album. You can certainly tell on this track that he had just done some remastering for Yes! This isn't just accidental things rubbing off either. When I was first introduced to Porcupine Tree (Steven Wilson's first band, which he did most of the writing for) the first album I bought was "In Absentia", still one of my favorites. I'm listening to it the first time and track three, "Lips of Ashes", comes on. As soon as the vocals start my mind is blown because the vocal harmonies sound just like Crosby, Stills and Nash! Even down to the "la la la" choruses. I couldn't believe how close he came to their unique sound. Years later I am reading an interview with him where he talks about "In Absentia" and says that he wanted to experiment with vocal harmonies so he listened to a lot of The Beach Boys, particularly "Pet Sounds" and Crosby, Stills and Nash. There you go! Here is a link if you want to see what I mean. You will notice that it is quite different from the Luminol clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-W6ctbSHbc

(Edited to add the link to the clip I apparently forgot.)
Last edited by ThomasOK on 2018-11-28 17:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-11-24 17:00

Aha! Reading the other comments I see there is dissension among the ranks. It looks like you have gotten every possible reply on these clips. Very amusing.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-11-24 17:29

Thanks for your thorough reply Thomas!

I think in the end, it’s a matter of taste; both dacs are really good.
I’ve noticed that it depends of the kind of music in the clips, which dac people prefer.
Although the ESI seems to win more...

Will reveal later, when Matt has replied
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by matthias » 2018-11-24 22:49

I apologise for the late reply but we had friends here over the weekend.
A great thanks to Sopper for the clips.
I will vote tomorrow.

Best regards

Matt
LP12 / Exposure / JBL3677

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by matthias » 2018-11-25 22:39

VERY close,

SW clip1
AEC clip2

Thanks again

Matt
LP12 / Exposure / JBL3677

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2018-11-25 23:04

matthias wrote:
2018-11-25 22:39
VERY close,

SW clip1
AEC clip2

Thanks again

Matt
What does SW mean? So What? Software? Street Worker? Star Wars?

And AEC, I can't even guess.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-11-25 23:20

Guessing it's his shorthand for Steven Wilson, and for Art Ensemble Chicago ;)

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2018-11-25 23:27

tokenbrit wrote:
2018-11-25 23:20
Guessing it's his shorthand for Steven Wilson, and for Art Ensemble Chicago ;)
Ha ha! OK, sorry, I've clearly not paid attention to what the clips contained. Will listen now.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2018-11-25 23:35

Now I have and I vote like Matt:

Steven Wilson: Clip 1
Art Ensemble Chicago: Clip 2

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-11-26 00:16

Sopper wrote:
2018-11-23 11:39

Steven Wilson - Luminol
Clip 7734 - ESI Dac - 4 votes
Clip 7736 - RME Dac - 3 votes

Art Ensemble of Chicago - Charlie M
Clip 7735 - ESI Dac - 3 votes
Clip 7737 - RME Dac - 4 votes
Close call
In room i liked RME with Steven Wilson and ESI with Chicago art emsemble

Open for suggestions next set of clips.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2018-11-26 09:14

Sopper wrote:
2018-11-26 00:16
Open for suggestions next set of clips.
I am more interested in how the different versions of Volumio performs. In my experience with the earlier versions, the differences were big, similar to how firmware for Linn DS differs. I haven't tested the latest ones, but they could quickly be evaluated with the help of clips. Without clips the time between listening can sometimes become long.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-11-26 21:59

lejonklou wrote:
2018-11-26 09:14
I am more interested in how the different versions of Volumio performs. In my experience with the earlier versions, the differences were big, similar to how firmware for Linn DS differs. I haven't tested the latest ones, but they could quickly be evaluated with the help of clips. Without clips the time between listening can sometimes become long.
Not sure where to find older versions.
Also, they need to be configured on different USB thumb drives to test
I can test dev. version I’m using now against latest version
And off course, different MPD versions
I might have some time to try this next weekend when my girlfriend is away for a couple of days.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2018-11-26 23:04

OK, if there are no choices (there used to be several older versions available for download and then one could sometimes uppgrade to the latest in the interface - something I'm from experience not 100% sure will always gives the same result, but it seemed to when I tested it) then it's not an option and nothing to worry about.

But when you make changes to the code, I would recommend that you record a clip before and after the change, just to confirm that your bug fixes (which I'm very excited about!) don't accidentally affect the musical performance.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-11-28 17:43

Sopper wrote:
2018-11-26 00:16
Sopper wrote:
2018-11-23 11:39

Steven Wilson - Luminol
Clip 7734 - ESI Dac - 4 votes
Clip 7736 - RME Dac - 3 votes

Art Ensemble of Chicago - Charlie M
Clip 7735 - ESI Dac - 3 votes
Clip 7737 - RME Dac - 4 votes
Close call
In room i liked RME with Steven Wilson and ESI with Chicago art emsemble

Open for suggestions next set of clips.
At least as interesting as the vote tally is how the individual votes went. There was at least one person who voted for each possible combination 1+1, 2+2, 1+2 and 2+1. Also interestingly I seem to be the only one who voted for the ESI DAC both times. They are indeed both good DACs and both close. But I don't feel any need to run out and buy an RME at this point. And thanks for the Steven WIlson clip. Now I'll have to go back and listen to that album again - on my LP12!
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-11-28 18:29

Even though I voted for the RME both times, they were close enough that I too "don't feel any need to run out and buy an RME". I will be happy with the ESI and money in the bank for music purchases.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-11-28 18:46

Agree with you both

The one thing in favour for the RME is that it works flawlessly with any Volumio version.

ESI still causes problems, although I have it running stable with Volumio 2.394, MPD 0.20.21 and Upmpdcli 1.3.6
I’m afraid to try a new or different version... I couldn’t make the latest version with MyVolumio integrated Qobuz run stable
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-11-29 11:56

Sopper wrote:
2018-11-28 18:46


The one thing in favour for the RME is that it works flawlessly with any Volumio version.

If someone offered to fix the flakiness of the esi/volumio combo and it would only cost me £800 to do so, I think I might be tempted to tell them where to get off.
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Paaf » 2018-11-29 14:42

lejonklou wrote:
2018-11-26 23:04
OK, if there are no choices (there used to be several older versions available for download and then one could sometimes uppgrade to the latest in the interface - something I'm from experience not 100% sure will always gives the same result, but it seemed to when I tested it) then it's not an option and nothing to worry about.
I googled a little.

Very old ones are at https://sourceforge.net/projects/volumio - it's possible (or at least not impossible) that these are more musical.

Later ones 2.x can be found like this:
2.348 http://updates.volumio.org/x86/volumio/ ... 86.img.zip
2.368 http://updates.volumio.org/x86/volumio/ ... 86.img.zip
2.387 http://updates.volumio.org/x86/volumio/ ... 86.img.zip
and there's a pattern there from which one can do detective work.

For instance, 2.411 (the one mentioned by Fredrik in the definition of HAKAI) has the release date 2018-06-17, but using that date in the link didn't work. It turned out that the link should be
http://updates.volumio.org/x86/volumio/ ... 86.img.zip

(EDIT: I will copy this to the volumio thread)
Last edited by Paaf on 2018-11-30 11:55, edited 1 time in total.

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