HAKAI playground

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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Lego
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-11-05 07:48

ThomasOK wrote:This has been stated here and there many times before but I doubt it can be mentioned enough. It is amazing how much more accessible a tuneful system makes music. I had not heard this Ane Brun piece before and didn't know who it was. I had to do some searching based on the lyrics to find it but after hearing the clip on here I wanted to hear the rest of it. I found the track on youtube and was totally underwhelmed. The tremolo in her voice sounded trite, the guitar was flat and unimpressive, when the other voices came in it was a mess. I just really didn't care for it. I came back here and listened to the second clip and the voice has expression and emotion, the guitar has beautiful tone and dynamics, the chorus was great - just a lovely piece of music.

I think this is one of the great disasters of our digital age. There is hardly anywhere to hear good new music. At least in the US most of the radio stations are owned by big conglomerates and they are just looking for the most advertising dollars so they mostly play the same worn out garbage all the time: "classic rock" which seems to skip bands like The Who, the Stones, the Yardbirds, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, the Kinks, etc. in favor of Foreigner, Kiss, Toto, Boston, the Eagles, etc., "country" which also ignores the real country musicians and plays what is more like country-pop, R&B stations also ignoring all the classic players, religious broadcasting, etc. Long gone are the days when there were radio stations that played an eclectic mix of music that only had one requisite - it had to be good. Now we have the streaming media sources and youtube being the biggest music source for most people. With the poor quality of the compressed music mostly on offer you have a hard time getting a feel for how good the music sounds, even if they did bother to make available the worthwhile music out there, which is often hard to find. In the end I find most good new music by taking a chance on a good review (always chancy in my experience) and recommendations from customers and cohorts. I believe there is nowhere near as much good music coming out now as there was in the50s, 60s and early 70s, but I am equally sure that there is stuff I am missing because of the money-grubbing culture of the big music industry. End of rant!
Yes Thomas my late father used to say the same thing 50 years ago.
I know that tune

FairPlayMotty
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2018-11-05 10:46

I'm only 56 and can't recall a single year when great music wasn't made. Browsing through my NAS by year reminds me of the consistent ability of musicians to create new and great music every single year. It's one of the luxuries of life. Still wallowing in the wonderful sounds being produced by both Hakais.
Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Spannko » 2018-11-05 12:21

Lego wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:This has been stated here and there many times before but I doubt it can be mentioned enough. It is amazing how much more accessible a tuneful system makes music. I had not heard this Ane Brun piece before and didn't know who it was. I had to do some searching based on the lyrics to find it but after hearing the clip on here I wanted to hear the rest of it. I found the track on youtube and was totally underwhelmed. The tremolo in her voice sounded trite, the guitar was flat and unimpressive, when the other voices came in it was a mess. I just really didn't care for it. I came back here and listened to the second clip and the voice has expression and emotion, the guitar has beautiful tone and dynamics, the chorus was great - just a lovely piece of music.

I think this is one of the great disasters of our digital age. There is hardly anywhere to hear good new music. At least in the US most of the radio stations are owned by big conglomerates and they are just looking for the most advertising dollars so they mostly play the same worn out garbage all the time: "classic rock" which seems to skip bands like The Who, the Stones, the Yardbirds, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, the Kinks, etc. in favor of Foreigner, Kiss, Toto, Boston, the Eagles, etc., "country" which also ignores the real country musicians and plays what is more like country-pop, R&B stations also ignoring all the classic players, religious broadcasting, etc. Long gone are the days when there were radio stations that played an eclectic mix of music that only had one requisite - it had to be good. Now we have the streaming media sources and youtube being the biggest music source for most people. With the poor quality of the compressed music mostly on offer you have a hard time getting a feel for how good the music sounds, even if they did bother to make available the worthwhile music out there, which is often hard to find. In the end I find most good new music by taking a chance on a good review (always chancy in my experience) and recommendations from customers and cohorts. I believe there is nowhere near as much good music coming out now as there was in the50s, 60s and early 70s, but I am equally sure that there is stuff I am missing because of the money-grubbing culture of the big music industry. End of rant!
Yes Thomas my late father used to say the same thing 50 years ago.
Ha ha. Yes, it’s commonly known as ‘grumpy old man’ syndrome!

Lego
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-11-05 17:37

In the UK there is a terrible radio station called BBC Radio 2, it basically plays music from 30 odd years ago,obviously hated by teenagers, I know my kids are always moaning about it. You'd be amazed how many of my contemporaries say how good radio 2 has become. You couldn't make it up. lol
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-11-06 20:16

2 x 2 Clips to compare renderer
(removing older clips after this (limited space dropbox))

Configuration:
# HAKAI > USB > RME ADI-2 Dac, SD Slow filter
# Linn Akurate DSM > Digital Coax > RME ADI-2 Dac, SD Slow filter

Nick Cave - Red Right Hand
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxt4ehayptmyy ... 4.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vr8d59ao5jiki ... 5.MOV?dl=0

Teresa Perez - The Swan
https://www.dropbox.com/s/55q4de22urkkb ... 8.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/11h3ftnl3gv9l ... 9.MOV?dl=0
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

Charlie1
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Charlie1 » 2018-11-06 20:29

I prefer clip 1 on each piece of music.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Spannko » 2018-11-06 20:44

Lego wrote:In the UK there is a terrible radio station called BBC Radio 2, it basically plays music from 30 odd years ago,obviously hated by teenagers, I know my kids are always moaning about it. You'd be amazed how many of my contemporaries say how good radio 2 has become. You couldn't make it up. lol
Radio 2 hasn’t got better over the years, your friends have just got older!

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-11-06 20:58

I suppose I set myself up for that. There is indeed still good music coming out and I have put clips of some of that up here like Rhiannon Giddens, Jamie Saft, Steve Swallow & Bobby Previte, Steve Wilson, Loreena McKennit, etc. But it is still very hard to hear people like this on the radio. And I still don't think it quite compares to this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard ... es_of_1968

At the bottom of the page you can see top singles from quite a few years and the years around 68 are also filled with a wide variety of really good music.

Spannko, I will indeed have to check out radio paradise. It sounds like it is right up my alley. Thanks.
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beck
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck » 2018-11-06 21:12

Charlie1 wrote:I prefer clip 1 on each piece of music.
+1

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by tokenbrit » 2018-11-06 21:21

Sopper wrote:2 x 2 Clips to compare renderer
(removing older clips after this (limited space dropbox))
Finding it difficult to compare these as they sound quite different. 1 seems better balanced from the first pair; I'm more comfortable with 2 from the second pair but aware that I may have reacted to them sonically rather than musically...

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-11-06 21:33

Oh, come on now! Second set of clips can't be the same performance. Clip 1, beautiful, expressive, sensitive playing. Pulls at your heartstrings. Clip 2 must be the local high school music students attempting the same piece. Course, cymbal player not sensitive to the others, much less beauty of tone.

First set of clips, Clip 1 also much better - it sounds like music whereas clip 2 sounds more like disjointed sounds. Not close on either set of clips.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Spannko » 2018-11-06 23:48

ThomasOK wrote:Oh, come on now! Second set of clips can't be the same performance. Clip 1, beautiful, expressive, sensitive playing. Pulls at your heartstrings. Clip 2 must be the local high school music students attempting the same piece. Course, cymbal player not sensitive to the others, much less beauty of tone.

First set of clips, Clip 1 also much better - it sounds like music whereas clip 2 sounds more like disjointed sounds. Not close on either set of clips.
That’s exactly what I thought. It reminded me of a time when I heard 2 pianists playing an upright. One made it sound like a whiskey bar honky tonk and the other, a baby grand!

If 1 is the Hakai, it really is a Kuchiku-kan !

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by jewa » 2018-11-07 12:40

I prefer clip 1 in both!

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-11-07 18:14

Charlie1 wrote:I prefer clip 1 on each piece of music.
beck wrote:
Charlie1 wrote:I prefer clip 1 on each piece of music.
+1
tokenbrit wrote: Finding it difficult to compare these as they sound quite different. 1 seems better balanced from the first pair; I'm more comfortable with 2 from the second pair but aware that I may have reacted to them sonically rather than musically...
ThomasOK wrote:Oh, come on now! Second set of clips can't be the same performance. Clip 1, beautiful, expressive, sensitive playing. Pulls at your heartstrings. Clip 2 must be the local high school music students attempting the same piece. Course, cymbal player not sensitive to the others, much less beauty of tone.

First set of clips, Clip 1 also much better - it sounds like music whereas clip 2 sounds more like disjointed sounds. Not close on either set of clips.
Spannko wrote:
That’s exactly what I thought. It reminded me of a time when I heard 2 pianists playing an upright. One made it sound like a whiskey bar honky tonk and the other, a baby grand!

If 1 is the Hakai, it really is a Kuchiku-kan !
jewa wrote:I prefer clip 1 in both!
In both set of clips, the first is Linn Akurate DSM > Coaxial digital > RME ADI-2 Dac, SD slow filter
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

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Tendaberry
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Tendaberry » 2018-11-07 18:41

Well, well, now we need a set of clips comparing the ADSM with its integrated DAC vs. with the RME DAC...

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Spannko » 2018-11-07 19:31

Tendaberry wrote:Well, well, now we need a set of clips comparing the ADSM with its integrated DAC vs. with the RME DAC...
+1, please!

Oh, and which version ADSM are you using?

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-11-07 20:02

I want to hear Akurate DSM vs Hakai P(proper)
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-11-07 21:53

Tendaberry wrote:Well, well, now we need a set of clips comparing the ADSM with its integrated DAC vs. with the RME DAC...
I can do that, but will post it in playground for practical listening exercises thread.
Spannko wrote: Oh, and which version ADSM are you using?
2011 generation (ADSM/0?)
Lego wrote:I want to hear Akurate DSM vs Hakai P(proper)
What do you mean Lego?
HAKAI with ESI dac vs Akurate DSM with RME dac?
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

matthias
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by matthias » 2018-11-07 23:28

Sopper wrote:HAKAI with ESI dac vs Akurate DSM with RME dac?
According to Source First the later combi should be superior.

Matt
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck » 2018-11-08 20:22

Sopper wrote:2 x 2 Clips to compare renderer
(removing older clips after this (limited space dropbox))

Configuration:
# HAKAI > USB > RME ADI-2 Dac, SD Slow filter
# Linn Akurate DSM > Digital Coax > RME ADI-2 Dac, SD Slow filter

Nick Cave - Red Right Hand
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxt4ehayptmyy ... 4.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vr8d59ao5jiki ... 5.MOV?dl=0

Teresa Perez - The Swan
https://www.dropbox.com/s/55q4de22urkkb ... 8.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/11h3ftnl3gv9l ... 9.MOV?dl=0
What do you think of the different setups listening in the room?

I have against my better judgement:-) listened and answered. I would like to say that I still find it very difficult with digital sources to be certain about anything.

Sopper
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-11-08 21:33

The HAKAI has good days and bad days
With some music I like the ESI dac more, with other music I like the RME dac more...

The Akurate DSM feeding the RME dac surprised me, it’s really good.
Need to compare internal dac v. RME dac when I have time.
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

beck
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck » 2018-11-08 22:05

Thank you for your answer.

I am experimenting with my old cd-player at the moment and getting good results. It is no Sondek but it can with the right setup produce some nice sounds that can be heard as music. :-)

matthias
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by matthias » 2018-11-08 22:46

beck wrote:I am experimenting with my old cd-player at the moment and getting good results. It is no Sondek but it can with the right setup produce some nice sounds that can be heard as music. :-)
Agree,
according to this review a good cd transport can outperform a much more expensive server solution:

https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/jaysaudio/1.html

Matt
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beck
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by beck » 2018-11-08 22:58

For my part this was not me starting a discussion about different formats though cd has it’s merits. What is worth noting is that with any format when you get it tuneful enough it can produce sounds that we can interpret as music.

Azazello
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Azazello » 2018-11-08 23:54

Sopper wrote:
In both set of clips, the first is Linn Akurate DSM > Coaxial digital > RME ADI-2 Dac, SD slow filter
And the second is..?

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