I should have made it clear that I was referring to quick A/B dems at a shop or at home, and certainly not phone recordings. IMHO, and IME, a short listen is fraught with perils, and has definitely lead me down the wrong path in the past. Personally, I feel I need to use the tune method on a wide variety of recordings, and over an extended period of time, before I can trust my own judgment.markiteight wrote: ↑2021-03-29 23:36A key aspect of these clip comparisons is that we are comparing relative differences and merely choosing which one is better. The tune method is never used to find "good enough", only which one is better. Trying to find "good enough" in, or evaluate the absolute musical performance from, recorded clips is fraught with perils and will undoubtedly lead you down the wrong path.Spannko wrote: ↑2021-03-29 21:34 This highlights a problem I have with short A Vs B comparisons. A may sound better than B, but only an extended listening will reveal whether A is “good enough”. I’m beginning to wonder if a short comparison “tune dem” is more useful for selling HiFi (“buy the one which sounds best to you on a 30 second sound clip”), than determining whether something is “good enough”. In all A/B comparisons, one will be “better” than the other. But, as beck suggests, there’s a possibility that neither is “good enough”.
HAKAI playground
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Re: HAKAI playground
Re: HAKAI playground
PunchDavid Neel wrote: ↑2021-02-07 15:49 Punch: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m15qdmc3n9qjt ... 9.mp4?dl=0
Judy: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4yv2jdzmgljn ... 9.mp4?dl=0
Don't be distracted by the turntable! This is a purely digital comparison.
I know that tune
Re: HAKAI playground
The second one is miles better ,not even close . First one to me sounds more mechanical especially when guitar comes in.markiteight wrote: ↑2021-03-25 04:56 Here are a couple clips comparing HAKAI in "normal" configuration (HAKAI based NAS, Netgear GS108t, BJC cables) vs. the same file played directly into HAKAI via a USB thumb drive. Which do you prefer?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yai65spsctmem ... 3.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e237ukf5z6x13 ... F.MOV?dl=0
I know that tune
Re: HAKAI playground
Newkallesprätt wrote: ↑2021-03-26 13:40 Old vs new, better or worse?
Old)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cre8ifp7o4sx8 ... 4.mov?dl=0
New)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfj7r9bwe8qcz ... 8.mov?dl=0
I know that tune
Re: HAKAI playground
Never has a truer word been spoken.markiteight wrote: ↑2021-03-29 23:36A key aspect of these clip comparisons is that we are comparing relative differences and merely choosing which one is better. The tune method is never used to find "good enough", only which one is better. Trying to find "good enough" in, or evaluate the absolute musical performance from, recorded clips is fraught with perils and will undoubtedly lead you down the wrong path.Spannko wrote: ↑2021-03-29 21:34 This highlights a problem I have with short A Vs B comparisons. A may sound better than B, but only an extended listening will reveal whether A is “good enough”. I’m beginning to wonder if a short comparison “tune dem” is more useful for selling HiFi (“buy the one which sounds best to you on a 30 second sound clip”), than determining whether something is “good enough”. In all A/B comparisons, one will be “better” than the other. But, as beck suggests, there’s a possibility that neither is “good enough”.
I personally feel the shorter the tune dem the more accurate it is, on the appropriate track...and it should be extremely easy to hear a difference and if it's difficult.... well put your cheque book away or get back to listening to more tunes
I know that tune
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Re: HAKAI playground
Every change makes a difference, and a tune based method will reveal the differences in the systems ability to play tunes. I don’t dispute that. I just feel that determining whether I’d want to live with the change takes longer. It may be more tuneful, but it still may not be good enough. Or, as Linn used to say, it might not reach my personal level of musical expectation.
Re: HAKAI playground
Clip 1 for me as well. To me Clip 2 sounds a bit more Hi-Fi with the initial voice sounding somewhat "cleaner" but it just doesn't seem to move as well at all. It just leaves me flat whereas Clip 1 does seem to have some groove to it.markiteight wrote: ↑2021-03-29 01:10 I do have Exciter ripped lossless, so let's try this again:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cchouv3omel5c ... 1.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q90pt7ymswoow ... 9.MOV?dl=0
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Re: HAKAI playground
I think I understand what you're saying, Spannko. I have encountered numerous situations that are similar to what you describe. The most notable one for me was when I had the opportunity to compare the stock wideband drivers in my speakers to the version they use in some of their more expensive models. The "upgrade" drivers did a lot of things I liked and I really wanted to keep them, but when I posted clips in the Playground thread everybody chose the original version. I reluctantly re-installed the original drivers and it didn't take even 30 seconds to realize y'all were right. The replacement drivers were boxed up and sent back to Zu and I've never looked back.Spannko wrote: ↑2021-03-30 12:06 Every change makes a difference, and a tune based method will reveal the differences in the systems ability to play tunes. I don’t dispute that. I just feel that determining whether I’d want to live with the change takes longer. It may be more tuneful, but it still may not be good enough. Or, as Linn used to say, it might not reach my personal level of musical expectation.
There have been several other occasions where the option I expected to be more musical, or wanted to be more musical, wasn't. But ignoring my biases and desires and going with the more musical option was always the right choice. Despite the change sometimes sounding worse the cumulative result of all these changes has been a massive transformation in the musical performance of my system. Is it good enough? Nope! There's always more to be had. The musically superior choice is never good enough, but it is always better.
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Re: HAKAI playground
Thanks to everyone who chimed in. These are some interesting results. In both sets of clips the first was Volumio and its web interface, second was minimserver/Kazoo. Two things strike me as eyebrow raising: 1) In both sets of clips the differences between the two are much more apparent in the clips than they are in the room, and 2) The results are different for .mp3 and lossless (ALAC in this case), with .mp3 universally in favor of minimserver and unanimous votes for Volumio on lossless. My ears are in agreement with yours, but when I have some more time (and the pesky music isn't distracting me) I'm going to investigate this a bit more to see if this is a consistent result or a fluke of the particular songs I chose. The quality of .mp3 rips seems to vary a lot, from barely tolerable to downright unlistenable.ThomasOK wrote: ↑2021-03-30 22:55Clip 1 for me as well. To me Clip 2 sounds a bit more Hi-Fi with the initial voice sounding somewhat "cleaner" but it just doesn't seem to move as well at all. It just leaves me flat whereas Clip 1 does seem to have some groove to it.markiteight wrote: ↑2021-03-29 01:10 I do have Exciter ripped lossless, so let's try this again:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cchouv3omel5c ... 1.MOV?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q90pt7ymswoow ... 9.MOV?dl=0
Re: HAKAI playground
Agreed. I spend a lot of time in comparison with new kit. My dealer is a gent and allows home demos. I have bought stuff 2nd hand hoping it would be better. It wasn't and I have sold it on at minimal loss. How it sounds in YOUR room is everything to me. And I spend days demoing - back and forth. If it's right, it's right!Spannko wrote: ↑2021-03-30 01:42I should have made it clear that I was referring to quick A/B dems at a shop or at home, and certainly not phone recordings. IMHO, and IME, a short listen is fraught with perils, and has definitely lead me down the wrong path in the past. Personally, I feel I need to use the tune method on a wide variety of recordings, and over an extended period of time, before I can trust my own judgment.markiteight wrote: ↑2021-03-29 23:36A key aspect of these clip comparisons is that we are comparing relative differences and merely choosing which one is better. The tune method is never used to find "good enough", only which one is better. Trying to find "good enough" in, or evaluate the absolute musical performance from, recorded clips is fraught with perils and will undoubtedly lead you down the wrong path.Spannko wrote: ↑2021-03-29 21:34 This highlights a problem I have with short A Vs B comparisons. A may sound better than B, but only an extended listening will reveal whether A is “good enough”. I’m beginning to wonder if a short comparison “tune dem” is more useful for selling HiFi (“buy the one which sounds best to you on a 30 second sound clip”), than determining whether something is “good enough”. In all A/B comparisons, one will be “better” than the other. But, as beck suggests, there’s a possibility that neither is “good enough”.
LP12, Lingo 3, Cirkus/Kore, Tramp 2, Basik Plus Ania, Linto
Majik Ds, Kisto, Tundra 2.0, Majik 109
Majik Ds, Kisto, Tundra 2.0, Majik 109
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Re: HAKAI playground
Comparing with and without lump of Serpentine on top of the DAC (https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 792#p55792):
Green : https://www.dropbox.com/s/nxcwzhid7ywbn ... n.mp4?dl=0
Red: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hezofceg9s1yml/red.mp4?dl=0
Let me know what you think
Green : https://www.dropbox.com/s/nxcwzhid7ywbn ... n.mp4?dl=0
Red: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hezofceg9s1yml/red.mp4?dl=0
Let me know what you think
Pete
Re: HAKAI playground
Green is nearest to what I like, so that is what I prefer.....
Red is lovely seperated but too much so with less emotion IMO.
Red is lovely seperated but too much so with less emotion IMO.
It’s that live feeling…………….
Re: HAKAI playground
I listened yesterday, but didn't post. This was partly because I was surprised at the difference in presentation of the same piece, and second guessed myself from there... Agree with beck; Green for me too. Red sounds thin in comparison, and has lost me by the time she sings the word 'emotion', without any...
Re: HAKAI playground
Yep, I'm with the group here. Red has some interesting aspects but Joan definitely Shows Some Emotion in the Green clip that is lacking in the Red one.
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Re: HAKAI playground
Are her emotions suppressed in red? Weighed down? Perhaps she's feeling flat.
I should have recorded pigs on the wing.
I was surprised by the difference too.
I should have recorded pigs on the wing.
Red is under the rock.You know that I care what happens to you,
And I know that you care for me.
So I don't feel alone,
Or the weight of the stone
I was surprised by the difference too.
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Re: HAKAI playground
Yes. Green is better and I've never heard any improvements when putting something on my own hifi-gear or speakers.
It's free though so worth trying.
It's free though so worth trying.
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ESI Gigaport EX vs ESI Gigaport HD+ DAC
All recorded using a Hakai with Spotify Connect source. See https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 191#p58191
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Re: HAKAI playground
Thanks for the videos SW64 👍 Before I comment, would you mind making another recording using music which isn’t so heavily processed? When the fundamental musical elements are over processed, there’s a tendency to pick the most impressive sound, which can lead to preference errors.
Re: ESI Gigaport EX vs ESI Gigaport HD+ DAC
I prefer not to know which is which before listening but anyway I like HD+ more.springwood64 wrote: ↑2021-07-25 08:10 [*]EX : https://www.dropbox.com/s/2y4fblqzw552r9d/EX.mp4?dl=0
[*]HD+: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jysxcl03egpsh ... B.mp4?dl=0
Matt
Last edited by matthias on 2021-07-25 16:22, edited 1 time in total.
Matt
Modified mains distribution / Macbook / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Modified mains distribution / Macbook / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Re: ESI Gigaport EX vs ESI Gigaport HD+ DAC
Going back and forth a couple of times it feels like there more to the HD+, for me: more tension & emotion in the music; more interesting & enjoyable to listen longer. Didn't get the same from the EX.springwood64 wrote: ↑2021-07-25 08:10 All recorded using a Hakai with Spotify Connect source. See https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 191#p58191
Re: HAKAI playground
I have had to go back and forth many times.
I find a slightly more “human” feel listening to the EX clip. HD+ is a bit more controlled and on balance I think I prefer listening to the EX clip.
I find a slightly more “human” feel listening to the EX clip. HD+ is a bit more controlled and on balance I think I prefer listening to the EX clip.
It’s that live feeling…………….
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Re: HAKAI playground
For the first week I tired of the EX very quickly, so switched it to burning in on my test system.
Now I find it difficult to choose, despite comparing a number of tracks. The differences seem subtle and seem to vary a little between tracks. Like Beck, I prefer the EX for the First Aid Kit track both in the room and via the recordings.
Thanks everyone for your time in analysing these comparisons.
For Spannko and Matthias, here is a less processed track, anonymised:
Now I find it difficult to choose, despite comparing a number of tracks. The differences seem subtle and seem to vary a little between tracks. Like Beck, I prefer the EX for the First Aid Kit track both in the room and via the recordings.
Thanks everyone for your time in analysing these comparisons.
For Spannko and Matthias, here is a less processed track, anonymised:
Pete
Re: HAKAI playground
I prefer B!springwood64 wrote: ↑2021-07-25 18:37 For the first week I tired of the EX very quickly, so switched it to burning in on my test system.
Now I find it difficult to choose, despite comparing a number of tracks. The differences seem subtle and seem to vary a little between tracks. Like Beck, I prefer the EX for the First Aid Kit track both in the room and via the recordings.
Thanks everyone for your time in analysing these comparisons.
For Spannko and Matthias, here is a less processed track, anonymised:
I find this an interesting set of clips, as I have already compared HD+ and EX and have firm opinions about them.
Was someone preparing dinner in clip A? ;)
Re: HAKAI playground
B for me as well, with or without dinner.......... :-)
It’s that live feeling…………….