HAKAI playground

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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lejonklou
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2018-12-03 21:23

Sopper wrote:
2018-12-03 19:01
David Neel wrote:
2018-12-03 18:37
I have a preference for B in all 3 clips.
Me too
So do I

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-03 21:59

The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-12-03 22:13

Paaf wrote:
2018-12-03 21:59
The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.
Hmmm, cannot think of any reason why it could differ, since it’s just a control point; weird
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel » 2018-12-03 22:48

I am astonished by this! But it seems to be right. I've just switched control points and yes, I think I slightly prefer Kazoo to BubbleDS. So the next question is: how does Kazoo compare to using Volumio via its web interface?

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2018-12-04 20:53

I've tried Bubble, Kazoo, Media Monkey and HiFi Cast. The latter is my app of choice for sound/functionality combined.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2018-12-04 23:51

Paaf wrote:
2018-12-03 21:59
The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.
Wow!

Excellent blind testing using clips!

The vast majority of enthusiast who are into streaming would likely have dismissed participating in a test like this if you'd suggested it openly. We had a bunch of even stranger findings from the development, things we would surely have dismissed if we had known what the difference between the clips were before listening to them.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-12-05 14:43

Sopper wrote:
2018-12-03 22:13
Paaf wrote:
2018-12-03 21:59
The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.
Hmmm, cannot think of any reason why it could differ, since it’s just a control point; weird
My experience with Bubble is that it has to be active in order to play the next track so it is definitely in the mix somehow.If the phone goes to sleep or you close the app the music will stop after the track has finished. With Kazoo the playlist is set up and it takes itself out of the mix and every track will play to the end, even if you close the app or turn device off, so this result doesn't surprise me
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-12-05 18:13

Paaf wrote:
2018-12-01 19:08
Same test but using a different song:

Second track:
A
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1J8fLe ... 4uyNfoPro5

B
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XlVWG ... oNNXSvpWtH
As with the first pair these are fairly close, but I definitely prefer B on this set. I find A to be a bit lackluster and uninvolving in comparison.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-12-05 18:19

Paaf wrote:
2018-12-02 19:33
New track with same difference A/B as before. Please enjoy singing along.

Third track
A
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aGeJZ ... wsLt4_HH1l

B
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UuPWN ... QYz5WmVufy
On this set I also prefer B. To me A sounds like the pianists fingers are almost tripping over each other. B it is easier for me to hear what is being played and how it is being played.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Sopper » 2018-12-05 18:57

https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli ... dupnp.html

This might explain difference in control points used
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2018-12-05 19:42

lejonklou wrote:
2018-12-04 23:51
Paaf wrote:
2018-12-03 21:59
The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.
Wow!

Excellent blind testing using clips!

The vast majority of enthusiast who are into streaming would likely have dismissed participating in a test like this if you'd suggested it openly. We had a bunch of even stranger findings from the development, things we would surely have dismissed if we had known what the difference between the clips were before listening to them.
This is very interesting! I went back and listened again to the first set and I could hear that the piano seemed to come through a bit more clearly on B. I still had to go back and forth a few times and I'm still not sure I don't like the vocal part more on A. Maybe I just dislike this song so much that I prefer the one that makes it worse! :-)

But, yeah, B was definitely better on both the other clips.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-05 20:07

Thank you everyone who listened and commented!

I actually used dozens or more clips myself before posting the first one, because it seemed so impossible.

In the first track I hear more emotion in the words in B, for instance it sounds like he's smiling on the word "smile" instead of just singing some random word. In the second track I think A is very slightly "dusty" and B "shines". (heh) In the third track the violin after playing the same note again and again finally goes to another note. I feel it to be slightly out of tune in A, but just perfect in B.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by DelNaja » 2018-12-05 20:37

Lego wrote:
2018-12-05 14:43
My experience with Bubble is that it has to be active in order to play the next track so it is definitely in the mix somehow.If the phone goes to sleep or you close the app the music will stop after the track has finished. With Kazoo the playlist is set up and it takes itself out of the mix and every track will play to the end, even if you close the app or turn device off, so this result doesn't surprise me
This is not how my Bubble DS behaves. The music keeps playing no matter what I do with the app or the phone.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-12-06 12:50

DelNaja wrote:
2018-12-05 20:37
Lego wrote:
2018-12-05 14:43
My experience with Bubble is that it has to be active in order to play the next track so it is definitely in the mix somehow.If the phone goes to sleep or you close the app the music will stop after the track has finished. With Kazoo the playlist is set up and it takes itself out of the mix and every track will play to the end, even if you close the app or turn device off, so this result doesn't surprise me
This is not how my Bubble DS behaves. The music keeps playing no matter what I do with the app or the phone.
Does it continue to next track?
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel » 2018-12-06 14:07

So we now know that if you are using BubbleDS on an Android control point, Kazoo provides an easy upgrade (even if it's not as nice to use). This is presumably nothing to do with Hakai - I have replicated the result via my ADS/3.

Is it related to either the Android environment, or design/implementation differences between Bubble DS and Kazoo? If somebody has the capability, it would be interesting to compare: i) different iOS control points, and ii) iOS Kazoo and Android Kazoo. Do any musical differences exist in these two scenarios?

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Paaf » 2018-12-06 15:18

David Neel, I got the same too with MDS. Tests Android vs iOS would definitely be interesting.

As an interesting twist, while Linn Support helped me solve another issue, I mentioned in passing that I musically prefer Kazoo to all the other apps - they said there is NO difference between different apps. End of story. Well, I beg to differ... :)

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by DelNaja » 2018-12-06 21:47

Lego wrote: Does it continue to next track?
Yes, it plays the whole playlist. It even starts over if I have repeat on.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2018-12-11 15:29

DelNaja wrote:
2018-12-06 21:47
Lego wrote: Does it continue to next track?
Yes, it plays the whole playlist. It even starts over if I have repeat on.
Maybe I need to go into settings :0)
I know that tune

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