Now it's official:
http://www.lejonklou.com/?news=73
A new version of Kikkin is released the 1st of November: Kikkin 2. A tremendous amount of testing has resulted in five hardware upgrades and a new software.
The main benefit is a cleaner sound. Less harshness in the highs, less grain in the mid and bass. Not that I ever felt the original version sounded grainy, but in direct comparison, now it does. The result of this "cleaning up" is that the music is more fun to listen to.
The SLEEP issue of the first version (that Kikkin sounded slightly better with the volume light on) has now been reversed: Kikkin 2 sounds a little better with SLEEP activated and the light will fade out after 3 seconds (previously 10).
The price of Kikkin rises with version 2, to 7500 SEK or 750€. Upgrading an original version costs the same amount as the price increase: 1600 SEK or 160€ (shipping costs might be added).
For enthusiasts on a tight budget, the original version of Kikkin will remain for sale during 2009. Its original price remains as well: 5900 SEK or 590€.
I want to express my gratitude to everyone who have commented on the performance of the original Kikkin! Your feedback has been highly valuable and I am very much looking forward to the reviews of the new version.
Kikkin 2
Moderator: Staff
I forgot to mention one thing:
UK models of Kikkin can also be upgraded with my new UK power cord. The difference is very worthwhile on a Kikkin and the cost is just 20€ extra.
I managed to buy the last stock of this obsolete Volex model and it's the best UK power cord I've heard. It doesn't have a connector, so it can't be used with products that have IEC sockets and use detachable power cords. I won't sell it separately either, as I want them for my own products.
Please note that this only applies to UK models. The latest UK Kinki phono preamps that were sold have been fitted with this power cord.
UK models of Kikkin can also be upgraded with my new UK power cord. The difference is very worthwhile on a Kikkin and the cost is just 20€ extra.
I managed to buy the last stock of this obsolete Volex model and it's the best UK power cord I've heard. It doesn't have a connector, so it can't be used with products that have IEC sockets and use detachable power cords. I won't sell it separately either, as I want them for my own products.
Please note that this only applies to UK models. The latest UK Kinki phono preamps that were sold have been fitted with this power cord.
Thank you, Komri, Charlie, Thomas and Pär!
One thing that kept bugging me was the detail that Kikkin sounded slightly better when the logic drew a bit of current (preferly from the volume indicator on the front). It contradicted my understanding of things and I just had to find the reason behind it. Eventually I found it. The change that was required resulted in a less distorted sound, regardless of whether SLEEP was activated or not. And suddenly SLEEP mode was a tiny bit better instead of worse - quite a relief that it finally responded the way I expected it to!
Following that, I tried retuning all parameters. Most were unchanged, but some had to be altered to make Kikkin perform optimally. Four changes turned out to be necessary.
Actually I did have one "Eureka!" moment one night when I was falling asleep. I got a dream-like vision of a simpler design, one that wouldn't require a lot of fine tuning (which the Kikkin does). It could have become a 'Kikkin light' with a lower price, similar to the phono stage Kinki, that isn't individually tuned.
I started building a proto of it during the next day, with a creeping feeling that it might not work well for a lot of reasons... When it was finished and I listened to it, it had quite a nice and clean sound. But no swing, no emotion. There wasn't much that could be tuned in it, so I just dropped it. I hope that my next Eureka moment will be more rewarding! :lol:
It would sound cooler if I said it was, but it was mostly trial and error. I did many attempts to improve the original Kikkin with things that appeared to be good ideas. But none of them worked, somehow the balanced was tipped in one way or another and the sound became less tuneful than before.Lego wrote:Great news Fredrik how did you come about the improvements,was it a Eureka moment?
One thing that kept bugging me was the detail that Kikkin sounded slightly better when the logic drew a bit of current (preferly from the volume indicator on the front). It contradicted my understanding of things and I just had to find the reason behind it. Eventually I found it. The change that was required resulted in a less distorted sound, regardless of whether SLEEP was activated or not. And suddenly SLEEP mode was a tiny bit better instead of worse - quite a relief that it finally responded the way I expected it to!
Following that, I tried retuning all parameters. Most were unchanged, but some had to be altered to make Kikkin perform optimally. Four changes turned out to be necessary.
Actually I did have one "Eureka!" moment one night when I was falling asleep. I got a dream-like vision of a simpler design, one that wouldn't require a lot of fine tuning (which the Kikkin does). It could have become a 'Kikkin light' with a lower price, similar to the phono stage Kinki, that isn't individually tuned.
I started building a proto of it during the next day, with a creeping feeling that it might not work well for a lot of reasons... When it was finished and I listened to it, it had quite a nice and clean sound. But no swing, no emotion. There wasn't much that could be tuned in it, so I just dropped it. I hope that my next Eureka moment will be more rewarding! :lol:
No comment, sorry, rather a question.
I'm one of those who do not need all the switching of a normal
pre amp, but use one source and need only the volume control.
So I seem to be made for the kikkin. Or better: vice versa.
EXCEPT that I want to listen and simultaneously record what I
hear since I got some digital stuff as well. The Linto was
very nice for this with its two output sockets. Actually I am
using the 'tape out' of my pre.
Now my question is: Can´t I solve this problem by simply
making a y-cable that connects the output of the phono stage
to both kikkin and recording ADC? (Or a similar solution.)
Both have a high input impedance, so
the load on the phono stage is not much (but: what is much?)
different. Would one expect an immediate musical desaster, or
would it be worthwhile to have a try?
Regards, Klaus
I'm one of those who do not need all the switching of a normal
pre amp, but use one source and need only the volume control.
So I seem to be made for the kikkin. Or better: vice versa.
EXCEPT that I want to listen and simultaneously record what I
hear since I got some digital stuff as well. The Linto was
very nice for this with its two output sockets. Actually I am
using the 'tape out' of my pre.
Now my question is: Can´t I solve this problem by simply
making a y-cable that connects the output of the phono stage
to both kikkin and recording ADC? (Or a similar solution.)
Both have a high input impedance, so
the load on the phono stage is not much (but: what is much?)
different. Would one expect an immediate musical desaster, or
would it be worthwhile to have a try?
Regards, Klaus
Yes, this will work just fine. An Y-cable can be used as long as only one source is involved. I don't know what phono stage you are using, but most of them can be connected to several inputs with very little impact on sound quality.
Another way is to make the cable as a serial link (an M instead of an Y): Take one interconnect and in the receiver end (that you connect to Kikkin) you add another interconnect that goes to the recording ADC. This will probably sound a bit better than an Y cable. And this is also how Linn connects their multi-amped systems; from preamp to the first power amp. Then to the next power amp, and to the next. And if you have a subwoofer, it should be added last in this chain.
Another way is to make the cable as a serial link (an M instead of an Y): Take one interconnect and in the receiver end (that you connect to Kikkin) you add another interconnect that goes to the recording ADC. This will probably sound a bit better than an Y cable. And this is also how Linn connects their multi-amped systems; from preamp to the first power amp. Then to the next power amp, and to the next. And if you have a subwoofer, it should be added last in this chain.
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Linncredible
- Active Member
- Posts: 70
- Joined: 2008-01-12 14:01
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Ok, fine, Lejonklou Kikkin 2 is in place and what can I say but:
1. A fantastic upgrade - regardless of price! Taking the price into account the upgrade is of course extremely affordable. A big improvement in terms of musicality, easiness when it comes to following the tune and to understand the music (precision AND flow is words that comes to my mind) and also a "bigger” sound. Will be interesting to see how the performance evolves during the break in period. Both I and my fiancé are to sum it up experiencing a huge improvement from Kikkin 1 – and then please take into account that Kikkin 1 was GOOD (my old Kairn was absolutely no match at all for Kikkin 1)! Outstanding work Fredrik!
2. If “Lejonklou Inc” would make an inquiry for a Customer Satisfaction Index with a scale of 0-100 I would personally give the grade ... let’s see now ... approximately 117! Very quick, nice, competent service etc. and, as stated above, great price/performance!
If you have a Kikkin 1 it's a total no-brainer to upgrade to Kikkin 2 - just do it!
1. A fantastic upgrade - regardless of price! Taking the price into account the upgrade is of course extremely affordable. A big improvement in terms of musicality, easiness when it comes to following the tune and to understand the music (precision AND flow is words that comes to my mind) and also a "bigger” sound. Will be interesting to see how the performance evolves during the break in period. Both I and my fiancé are to sum it up experiencing a huge improvement from Kikkin 1 – and then please take into account that Kikkin 1 was GOOD (my old Kairn was absolutely no match at all for Kikkin 1)! Outstanding work Fredrik!
2. If “Lejonklou Inc” would make an inquiry for a Customer Satisfaction Index with a scale of 0-100 I would personally give the grade ... let’s see now ... approximately 117! Very quick, nice, competent service etc. and, as stated above, great price/performance!
If you have a Kikkin 1 it's a total no-brainer to upgrade to Kikkin 2 - just do it!
Questions: burn in, solid base?
I will be receiving a Kikkin shortly, and wonder whether it
needs burn in time or not, and if so, for what time span approx.
Second question is, if anyone tried to place it on a suspended
vs. rigid surface and what sounded best.
Regards, Klaus
needs burn in time or not, and if so, for what time span approx.
Second question is, if anyone tried to place it on a suspended
vs. rigid surface and what sounded best.
Regards, Klaus
Klaus,
as every Kikkin is checked by ear against a reference before it's delivered, I have a lot of experience with burn-in and warm-up. To my ears, both these effects are small. The units sound fine right out of the box.
When the circuit boards arrive straight from the soldering process, however, the effect of burn-in becomes a bit more pronounced. Usually the character is a bit stiff and gradually relaxes as the soldered joints settle. I'm curious about how the brand new KINKI3's that arrive next week will sound, compared to my prototype reference.
Regarding placement, my small boxes are clearly affected by how they are placed. I prefer them on a Mimer Shelf :mrgreen:, where it's actually possible to fit four in a row! I'm not sure about rigid versus suspended, maybe you can tell us more about that?
When Kikkin gets evaluated in Linn systems, people often seem to put them beside a Linn AV-sized box. This is convenient but not optimal for sound. I've found it usually sounds better if you place it centrally on top of the AV box.
as every Kikkin is checked by ear against a reference before it's delivered, I have a lot of experience with burn-in and warm-up. To my ears, both these effects are small. The units sound fine right out of the box.
When the circuit boards arrive straight from the soldering process, however, the effect of burn-in becomes a bit more pronounced. Usually the character is a bit stiff and gradually relaxes as the soldered joints settle. I'm curious about how the brand new KINKI3's that arrive next week will sound, compared to my prototype reference.
Regarding placement, my small boxes are clearly affected by how they are placed. I prefer them on a Mimer Shelf :mrgreen:, where it's actually possible to fit four in a row! I'm not sure about rigid versus suspended, maybe you can tell us more about that?
When Kikkin gets evaluated in Linn systems, people often seem to put them beside a Linn AV-sized box. This is convenient but not optimal for sound. I've found it usually sounds better if you place it centrally on top of the AV box.
Congratulations!
Just read the review in Hifi&Musik as well, good publicity!
What power amps are recomended with the Kikkin2? I am currently running an Classik Musik (LK size) and as a christmas gift to myself I bought a pair of Linn Ninkas. Would Kikkin2+LK140 or Kikkin2+AV2250 make any sense, will it be a considerable improvement over the Classik? Any other brands of power amps rather than Linn one should test (while waiting for a Lejonklou poweramp)?
Just read the review in Hifi&Musik as well, good publicity!
What power amps are recomended with the Kikkin2? I am currently running an Classik Musik (LK size) and as a christmas gift to myself I bought a pair of Linn Ninkas. Would Kikkin2+LK140 or Kikkin2+AV2250 make any sense, will it be a considerable improvement over the Classik? Any other brands of power amps rather than Linn one should test (while waiting for a Lejonklou poweramp)?
Sorry for the late reply, having some days off and enjoying the snow.
doze84: No, Kikkin can't drive a speaker directly. They demand too much current, as their impedance is normally around 4-8 ohms. And a power amplifier (which Kikkin is designed to drive) has an input impedance that's 1000 times higher!
trumpeten: Thanks! Yes, LK140 and 2250 works fine. So does 5105. All of those are stereo amps. There might be some non-Linn amps that are worthy of consideration, but these last few years I haven't looked around as much as I used to. So I don't have anything to recommend.
doze84: No, Kikkin can't drive a speaker directly. They demand too much current, as their impedance is normally around 4-8 ohms. And a power amplifier (which Kikkin is designed to drive) has an input impedance that's 1000 times higher!
trumpeten: Thanks! Yes, LK140 and 2250 works fine. So does 5105. All of those are stereo amps. There might be some non-Linn amps that are worthy of consideration, but these last few years I haven't looked around as much as I used to. So I don't have anything to recommend.
NEW FIRMWARE for Kikkin
A new firmware for our Kikkin volume control has been released. It adds functionality and slightly improves the sound of Kikkin 2.
Functionality: The mute button now has a dual function. Press quickly to lower the volume by ten steps. Any button (MUTE or VOL) will return the volume to normal. Press longer for a complete muting of the sound.
This dual function is practically useful in situations where you want to lower the volume momentarily. For instance when trying to hear what someone says, searching for a particular song or cleaning the stylus.
Sound: Kikkin 2 will benefit from a slighly cleaner sound, due to the digital processor shutting down completely when Kikkin 2 goes to sleep. Kikkin 1 doesn't really benefit from this, as it still sounds slightly better when the unit is awake (volume light on).
Price: All units can be upgraded to the cost of 300 SEK/€30/£30 plus shipping. Contact your retailer or Lejonklou to order the upgrade.
All units sold during 2010 will be upgraded for FREE (return shipping only).
The firmware update is from today included in the upgrade to Kikkin 2.
A big thanks to Linntek on the forum for his invaluable programming expertise!
A new firmware for our Kikkin volume control has been released. It adds functionality and slightly improves the sound of Kikkin 2.
Functionality: The mute button now has a dual function. Press quickly to lower the volume by ten steps. Any button (MUTE or VOL) will return the volume to normal. Press longer for a complete muting of the sound.
This dual function is practically useful in situations where you want to lower the volume momentarily. For instance when trying to hear what someone says, searching for a particular song or cleaning the stylus.
Sound: Kikkin 2 will benefit from a slighly cleaner sound, due to the digital processor shutting down completely when Kikkin 2 goes to sleep. Kikkin 1 doesn't really benefit from this, as it still sounds slightly better when the unit is awake (volume light on).
Price: All units can be upgraded to the cost of 300 SEK/€30/£30 plus shipping. Contact your retailer or Lejonklou to order the upgrade.
All units sold during 2010 will be upgraded for FREE (return shipping only).
The firmware update is from today included in the upgrade to Kikkin 2.
A big thanks to Linntek on the forum for his invaluable programming expertise!
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Tony Tune-age
- Very active member
- Posts: 1589
- Joined: 2009-12-19 19:07
- Location: United States
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Tony Tune-age
- Very active member
- Posts: 1589
- Joined: 2009-12-19 19:07
- Location: United States
No sir, I don't read or speak Swedish...lejonklou wrote:The magazine is not available on the net, as you've probably noticed. I really should put up a copy of that review on my website. Thanks for reminding me of that! But... do you read Swedish? Or do I have to translate it all? :lol:
. However, I certainly would appreciate a translation Lejonklou 8) .Tony Tune-age