Tundra Mono 3

[u252agz]

With so much demand for TM3 - I’m sure I could help relieve the pressure by just asking for just an upgrade for my TM2.

[lejonklou]

The upgrade of older units to Tundra Mono 3 became a little more complicated than expected.

The first priority was to try making them perform as close as possible to new units. The trouble is that nearly everything has changed:

• The case now has punch-in fasteners instead of screwed pillars,
• The case and lid now have much more ventilation than before,
• The copper heat sink is now drilled and clamped from below and above instead of tapped and held with screws from both sides,
• The internal wiring is partly new,
• The fasteners for the internal wiring is new,
• The power supplies are upgraded,
• The grounding of the main board is new, and
• The chassis ground parts are new.

All of the above were changes for the better. And with that I mean not just better for assembly and durability, but also musically better. So to upgrade an older Tundra or Tundra Mono to be perfectly identical to a new Tundra Mono 3, everything would need to be replaced except for two parts: The mains inlet and the two blue lights on the front panel!

So what I have done is to test all the changes and see which ones contribute with what, and which contribute the most. And then decide what to include in the upgrade.

Luckily the main board is responsible for most of the performance. That will of course be replaced, including the input connector, the output transistors, the thermal interface material and some heat sink assembly parts.

Second most important are the power supplies. These will be upgraded to the latest spec by changing eight components. If they don't perform 100% perfectly, they are replaced. There's no point in replacing them as standard procedure, as it would only bring up the cost. Their theoretical life is over 50 years of continuous running, but when they fail it's usually a random event rather than due to old age. So once upgraded, the existing power supplies will perform as well as new ones and the reliability is almost the same.

Third is the chassis ground and some fasteners, which will also be replaced with the latest spec parts.

Finally, the rear panel will look like a new Tundra Mono 3, but will keep the old Lights Off switch. The unit will get a new serial number from the TM3 range.

The result is a unit upgraded to TM3, with a similar performance, but not quite as good as a new TM3. You can visually identify an upgraded unit by the white logo on the front, the Lights Off switch on the rear and the single row of ventilation holes on the lid (as opposed to three rows on new units).

Any Tundra 2 or Tundra Mono 2 can be upgraded to a Tundra Mono 3 (older units would require that I make new copper heat sinks specifically for those old cases and that doesn't make economical sense). I'm quite pleased with the performance of it, but I'm not super excited about the really intensive procedure that is required to upgrade each unit. I will not be able to upgrade more than one unit in a workday.

The upgrade price reflects the number of parts and the long procedure required. It will cost around 60% the price of a new Tundra Mono 3 unit. The warranty will be renewed with 5 years.

I will start upgrading T2's and TM 2's to Tundra Mono 3 in June.

[anthony]

Thank you for the update Fredrik.
The price point of the upgrade seems very good value for the amount of work involved.
I expect the upgrade will give more than 60% improvement.
Out of interest what happens to the rear panel of the stereo, I assume you use only one pair of speaker outputs.

[willem kuis]

Hi Fredrik,

Just wondering:
Do you consider an upgrade path for the Tundra Stereo 2.5 to Tundra Stereo 3.0? (One box only)
If yes: When, and at what approximate cost? and what kind of improvement can then be expected?
If no: Why not?

Thx!

[lejonklou]

Thank you for the update Fredrik.
The price point of the upgrade seems very good value for the amount of work involved.
I expect the upgrade will give more than 60% improvement.
Out of interest what happens to the rear panel of the stereo, I assume you use only one pair of speaker outputs.

It’s difficult to quantify the improvement, but it’s a lot better than TM2.2, a lot better than the TM3 prototypes and close to a new TM3.

If I get a Tundra 2 to upgrade (I doubt there will be many), the connectors on the “other channel” will be removed and covered by the rear overlay. So it will look exactly the same as when a Tundra Mono 2 is upgraded.

[lejonklou]

Do you consider an upgrade path for the Tundra Stereo 2.5 to Tundra Stereo 3.0? (One box only)
If yes: When, and at what approximate cost? and what kind of improvement can then be expected?
If no: Why not?

Hi Willem!

I am unsure if there will ever be a Tundra 3. Why? Because I don’t know when I would have any time to design it. It’s not as simple as putting two TM3 circuits in the same box, because 1) that doesn’t sound good, and 2) I can’t source the components necessary for such a design.

So it would need to be a different design. But there are at least three, perhaps four projects that have a higher priority than a Tundra 3.

[ThomasOK]

Just so you know, Willem, Marco and I have also asked for a Tundra stereo 3. When I mentioned it to Fredrik he asked me when I was coming over to work for him so he could get it done. I do know some (but not all) of what Fredrik is working on, one obviously getting the Superkikkin into production first. and the three are indeed ones I see as a higher priority. I am still hopeful we will one day see Tundra stereo 3 but I wouldn't be betting on it for this or next year. As is the Tundra stereo 2.5 is quite a fine power amp and will continue to hold it's own. On the plus side it is possible it will take less time that the Cybertruck took from the announcement!

[macrotech2]

I will cheekily ask what the other three are, but I don’t really expect a reply!

[Sopper]

Proud owner of TM3 015 & 016 🙏😃

[lejonklou]

I will cheekily ask what the other three are, but I don’t really expect a reply!

No, it's better not to mention projects before knowing they will actually turn into a product that can be manufactured.

Sometimes they just don't get good enough and then I leave them alone, sometimes for years. A more recent phenomenon is when components disappear overnight and "will hopefully be back in stock late next year".

Tundra Mono 3 has suffered a lot from component shortages. Also from components changing specifications, which becomes a hurdle when every part is so precisely specified. I'm thankful I was able to make 78 main boards, but the amount of components we bought and selected is just silly. Only SINGularity has needed such huge amounts.

On the other hand, it really does pay off in musical performance!

[lejonklou]

Proud owner of TM3 015 & 016 🙏😃

Congratulations!

So now you have another pair to burn in. If you don't mind, please let us know how many hours it takes until they reach that state of "limitlessness".

[Sopper]

So now you have another pair to burn in. If you don't mind, please let us know how many hours it takes until they reach that state of "limitlessness".

I will keep track of the playing time
If it follows the same route as 005 & 006, I expect the first magic (at high volume) around 140 hours playing

[lejonklou]

I apologize for having been a bit absent from the forum these recent days.
I haven't done much else than build and ship Tundra Mono 3's.

017 and 018 were indeed shipped to Michigan, USA.
019 and 020 were indeed shipped to the UK.
021 and 022 were shipped to the UK today.

Tomorrow I'm driving a thousand kilometers north to attend my son's graduation concert after having completed his master's degree in classical piano! Oscar holds the fort, drilling copper heat sinks.

[Defender]

Please make sure you always reserve enough time for your family. Those moments are the ones you, your wife and your children will never forget. If one pair of Tundras go out 2 or 3 days later might just upset the one who suppose to get those but that will soon be forgotten.

[lejonklou]

Thank you Defender!

I need such reminders frequently.

[matthias]

Tomorrow I'm driving a thousand kilometers north to attend my son's graduation concert after having completed his master's degree in classical piano!

Congrats Fredrik,

I was very impressed by the short clip you posted some time ago when he played at a piano shop in Copenhagen.

[lejonklou]

Thank you Matthias!

That clip is from long before he was admitted to the conservatory. So he’s on a new level now.

[tokenbrit]

Thank you Matthias!

That clip is from long before he was admitted to the conservatory. So he’s on a new level now.

Would love to listen to a new clip if you (& your son) are comfortable posting here. Congratulations to him (& you) on his graduation!

[anthony]

Listening to Tundra mono 3 fresh out the box. I appreciate they need some use to reach peak performance, but already they are something very special.
Just with Linn 109 I keep getting distracted from other tasks, Radio Paradise is warming them up, I keep making a note of what’s playing, always a good sign.
I have always been an advocate of Tundra stereo, while I accept the mono 2 is better in many ways, I reverted to the stereo.
These are a whole new level, no swapping to see what’s best just instaneous, musical delight, another one of Fredriks achievements but this one is big.
Look forwards to a long listen tonight!
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/cou7kth1 ... wtzqbgm0ac

[macrotech2]

If you think they’re sounding good now Anthony, I can’t wait to hear your thoughts after a week or two. Mine have been sounding better every day.
Last night they were absolutely sublime.
Incredible fine detail and nuance at the same time as seemingly effortless power. The emotion and inflections of voices is really striking and there are new subtleties in everything I play.

I can’t really put into words how musical they are.
Thank you once more Fredrik!

[lejonklou]

Would love to listen to a new clip if you (& your son) are comfortable posting here. Congratulations to him (& you) on his graduation!

It was a one hour concert with Bach, Brahms and Beethoven. I didn't realize how nervous I was until afterwards when the tensions released.

Here is a clip of the first part, 4:30 long. Martin commented the fact that he slipped on the very first keystroke with "If that had been an audition, they would have rejected me immediately". But as an examination they judged the whole and he was approved with the highest grade!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u0oxyl0feq8p7my/Bach.MOV?dl=0

[lejonklou]

Listening to Tundra mono 3 fresh out the box. I appreciate they need some use to reach peak performance, but already they are something very special.
Just with Linn 109 I keep getting distracted from other tasks, Radio Paradise is warming them up, I keep making a note of what’s playing, always a good sign.
I have always been an advocate of Tundra stereo, while I accept the mono 2 is better in many ways, I reverted to the stereo.
These are a whole new level, no swapping to see what’s best just instaneous, musical delight, another one of Fredriks achievements but this one is big.
Look forwards to a long listen tonight!
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/cou7kth1 ... wtzqbgm0ac

If you think they’re sounding good now Anthony, I can’t wait to hear your thoughts after a week or two. Mine have been sounding better every day.
Last night they were absolutely sublime.
Incredible fine detail and nuance at the same time as seemingly effortless power. The emotion and inflections of voices is really striking and there are new subtleties in everything I play.

I can’t really put into words how musical they are.
Thank you once more Fredrik!

Thank you so much, anthony and macrotech2!

[tokenbrit]

.. I didn't realize how nervous I was until afterwards when the tensions released.

.. he was approved with the highest grade!

I can imagine... What a wonderful achievement. Thanks for sharing.

[Spannko]

Brilliant! You and your family must be really proud of your son’s achievement, Fredrik. Do you feel that constant exposure to unprocessed music has helped you to design more musical hifi?

[matthias]

.. I didn't realize how nervous I was until afterwards when the tensions released.
.. he was approved with the highest grade!

I can imagine... What a wonderful achievement. Thanks for sharing.

+1