Slipsik 8

[John]

Did I miss the reveal?

[lejonklou]

No, the reveal is coming now:

1 is my three year old demo unit of Slipsik 7.1
2 is a brand new Slipsik 8 with about 10 min of total playing time

The rest of the system is:
LP12 Cirkus Keel Radikal Ekos SE/1 Adikt
Sagatun Mono 1.4
JBL LSR308 on Katan stands

The track was 'Take the "A" Train' with Harry James, from the album 'Harry James Twenty-fifth Anniversary Album', MGM Records E4214, 1964.

[tpetsch]

Interesting to me how this broke up into two groups with different opinions on "The Tune" basics. Simply stated, it really all boils down to PRaT for me in this comparison, and for me clip (1) won out in this comparison. Opinions about "Dynamics", "Sound" and "Body" all have nothing to add to the overall musical experience when the basic fundamental PRaT/Tune is off. ...Although. I am aware that more choose clip two FWIW. ...How warmed up was the 7.1??

[lejonklou]

How warmed up was the 7.1??

Both were cold and plugged in about a minute before being recorded.

When one was playing music, the other was completely unplugged from everything, including mains.

[tpetsch]

How warmed up was the 7.1??

Both were cold and plugged in about a minute before being recorded.

When one was playing music, the other was completely unplugged from everything, including mains.

And when you personally compare PRaT between (1) & (2) right there in your listening environment what conclusions do you come to? ...And do you come to the same conclusions when comparing listening live in your room to listening to the clips posted here?

[David Neel]

Bravo! Slipsik 8 is stunning.

[Defender]

How warmed up was the 7.1??

Both were cold and plugged in about a minute before being recorded.

When one was playing music, the other was completely unplugged from everything, including mains.

And when you personally compare PRaT between (1) & (2) right there in your listening environment what conclusions do you come to? ...And do you come to the same conclusions when comparing listening live in your room to listening to the clips posted here?

my feeling about PRaT is that this is more influenced by run in of a component than tune (but it is as it is just my feeling)… for a new cold not run in device a stunning performance

[Tendaberry]

I‘m late to the party, as I‘ve had the flu for the past three days and don’t really have my hearing fully back. However, I had a quick listen to both clips on my Grados thru my iPhone and clearly preferred clip 2. The whole rhythm of the track is so much better there, it has a much better bounce and swing to it.
Congratulations Fredrik on another great product improvement!

[lejonklou]

If I count correctly, 5 people voted for 1 and 16 people voted for 2.

Perhaps it's wiser to create a poll? Then people can also vote without making a post. Might increase participation, but perhaps less fun?

In the room I can say that Slipsik 8 sounds very "real" compared to 7.1. The difference in sound quality is bigger than the musical difference. Several times I was thinking "Is this really Moving Magnet? Sounds more like Moving Coil!"

Regarding Spannko's and tpetsch's comments, there's something in the bass region of this Slipsik 8 that is a little stiff, which I find typical of brand new units. I can barely hear it in the two clips, but in the room on more modern recordings it was more obvious. I think this will loosen up and disappear after a couple of weeks.

The concept of PRaT has never made any sense to me. Its constituents are already part of the Tune Method. To break them out and judge them independently of the whole doesn't seem like a good idea.

[springwood64]

Perhaps it's wiser to create a poll? Then people can also vote without making a post. Might increase participation, but perhaps less fun?

The posts bring more information when people describe why they prefer one track over another. Over time I have found this helpful in guiding me practice my use of tunedem, so I think it would be a pity to lose this extra detail by limiting responses to a poll

[Arjen]

No, the reveal is coming now:

1 is my three year old demo unit of Slipsik 7.1
2 is a brand new Slipsik 8 with about 10 min of total playing time

The rest of the system is:
LP12 Cirkus Keel Radikal Ekos SE/1 Adikt
Sagatun Mono 1.4
JBL LSR308 on Katan stands

The track was 'Take the "A" Train' with Harry James, from the album 'Harry James Twenty-fifth Anniversary Album', MGM Records E4214, 1964.

Late night after reading the thread I listened both over and over again. Concluded the same as at first listening. Preferred 2. More natural and balanced. So Slipsik 8 is born and beats the 7.1. I thought the Slipsik had the best tune already. Another goor step forward Fredrik. Where will this upgrading end before we have all the good tunes (paraphrasing composer John Adams ‘Must The Devil Have All The Good Tunes?). I’m very interested in comparing the 2 Slipsiks both warmed up enough, and the 6.1 too (as I have got both since last year.

[Arjen]

After this thread for my Slipsik 7.1 it’s time to play a Weary Blues (Back to Back, Duke Ellington & Johnny Hodges), waiting for the Slipsik 8 playing one day a Royal Garden Blues.

[ThomasOK]

A little more reveal here. This upgrade was not originally expected to be this big and was going to be called the Slipsik 7.5 as there were 4 changes: Slipsik has moved into the new, slightly longer and heavier and more robust casework that Fredrik designed for the Giella and that the Entity has already moved into, to fit it the circuit board had to change a bit and I think two components changed, one tested to significantly tighter tolerances than before. As I mentioned last week Fredrik sent two clips to Marco and I without a description, at about 6:45PM which I think is after midnight in Sweden. I listened to them and at first thought they might be SINGularity 1.3 vs. 1.5 which he is almost finished with for one of my dealers. But then I remembered he had told me a few days before that he got the first batch of new Slipsiks 230 Volt version in. I was rather surprised by the musical improvement in B over A and texted him "If it is Slipsik 7.1 vs. 7.5 the latter should be 8.0." He texted back that "that's the one it is" and "The difference is crazy". After a few texts back and forth about probable price increases and other things he commented that he could change the number to 8.0 and felt it might be a good idea. He was pretty much decided on it and I suggested we see what Marco thought. Marco, being a sensible person who knows when to go to bed, didn't see the thread until the next morning but gave them a listen and was as impressed as we both were. He said definitely make this an 8.0. Along with the unanimous feeling amongst the three of us that the performance warranted the 8.0 moniker there is the fact that earlier versions cannot be upgraded to 8.0. With different casework and the electronic changes it is just not economically feasible.

As I also mentioned the differences are clearer and more obvious on the direct clips, but I still heard the same type of improvement and knew from the sound which was which on here. I think we are in for a whole new level of MM cartridge musical perfromance in the very near future.

[Lego]

How warmed up was the 7.1??

Both were cold and plugged in about a minute before being recorded.

When one was playing music, the other was completely unplugged from everything, including mains.

Have we had burn-in clips yet ? It would be great to have burn-in demonstrated via clips Fredrik .I know you're a busy man :0)

[lejonklou]

I have been waiting for someone to remind me that I wrote that Slipsik 7 might be the last version. I really thought it might. I had no ideas for how to improve it and it just felt "complete" in a way that no previous version had.

Slipsik 8 is the result of forced changes. The main one was the case. I could no longer make the old case and needed to switch to the one I designed for Giella and Entity. I think the new case looks a lot better and luckily it also plays music a little better. The only drawback is that it's more expensive.

I don't know how to explain all the details in words, but when Entity changed its case from the original one to the new and slightly deeper one, the difference in musicality was small. This is because its original and new case are quite alike, being completely undamped and having ventilation holes in the lid. The original Slipsik case, however, had no ventilation holes (because no ventilation is needed) and is damped with 75 square cm of bitumen inside (version 7.1). Very different from the new Slipsik case, which is identical to the new Entity case: Ventilation holes and no damping. I thought that Slipsik housed in the new case might require some damping to sound right, but that turned out not to be the case. It should be undamped just like Entity. And the reason for this is the ventilation holes! Using a lid without ventilation holes results in a need for damping. So the new case is tuned like an acoustical musical instrument, using the following parameters: Dimensions, material thicknesses, holes, damping, fastener torques and feet.

The second forced change was due to the shortage of semiconductors. In particular there was one component that was completely sold out all across the globe. One late night I finally managed to source it, but I had to buy many more than what I needed for a new batch of Slipsik. This made me think of the possibility to use a narrower range of it (like the other components, they're individually measured and divided into many groups). I measured them all, tested the new selection and found that it was better.

The third and fourth change weren't forced, they were an attempt to make further improvements. The chassis ground parts are new. Together with the other changes, this brings Slipsik 8 into musical balance. I'm really happy with the final result.

The only thing I don't like is that for the first time since its introduction, it's not possible to upgrade older Slipsik's to version 8. The new case dimensions prevent it. Old parts don't fit new case and new parts don't fit old case. Not fun to break that long history of upgradability, but I felt I had no other choice. And as a result, the product took a step up in performance that otherwise wouldn't have been possible.

[Arjen]

Thanks for the explanation of the development of the Slipsik 8 Fredrik and Thomas.
The result of the newborn must be a joy. A Slipsik by accident, intuition and experience it seems to me. I’m very eager to hear this one live and compare it with the 7.1 Also interested to hear if you did something to the 8 that you can still improve the 7.1. with, although you were convinced that the 7.1. would be the last Slipsik, saying that that was your ultimate MM. As a aftermarket service to current Slipsik owners.

[ITB]

Arjan,
Fan 'e boppesteande docht bliken dat wat jo freegje is net mooglik.

(the above shows that what you ask for is not possible)

[markiteight]

Arjan,
Fan 'e boppesteande docht bliken dat wat jo freegje is net mooglik.

The language on this forum is English.
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13

-Moderator

[Arjen]

Arjan,
Fan 'e boppesteande docht bliken dat wat jo freegje is net mooglik.

I ‘d say that Fredrik someone is who is learning from his experiences and that might be an opportunity for another upgrade of the Slipsik 7 to 7.something different from the 8.

[lejonklou]

A Slipsik by accident, intuition and experience it seems to me.

Yes. Or perhaps; by necessity, attention to detail and trial&error.

Also interested to hear if you did something to the 8 that you can still improve the 7.1. with, although you were convinced that the 7.1. would be the last Slipsik, saying that that was your ultimate MM. As a aftermarket service to current Slipsik owners.

The question is not whether it is possible to make a 7.2 or 7.3, but whether it's a wise way to spend my time. My most precious resource is time. It is what is preventing at least five new products to be completed and released. It's not a lack ideas that are holding them back, nor a lack parts, resources or money. Only time.

[Arjen]

A Slipsik by accident, intuition and experience it seems to me.

Yes. Or perhaps; by necessity, attention to detail and trial&error.

Also interested to hear if you did something to the 8 that you can still improve the 7.1. with, although you were convinced that the 7.1. would be the last Slipsik, saying that that was your ultimate MM. As a aftermarket service to current Slipsik owners.

The question is not whether it is possible to make a 7.2 or 7.3, but whether it's a wise way to spend my time. My most precious resource is time. It is what is preventing at least five new products to be completed and released. It's not a lack ideas that are holding them back, nor a lack parts, resources or money. Only time.

Fair enough, Fredrik, only time will tell.

[domesticaone]

Great news!
Another upgrade to consider before moving to MC. Any idea on price yet?

[lejonklou]

The price of Slipsik 8 will be the same as for 7.1 in North America and will rise 5% in other markets.

[Tony Tune-age]

The price of Slipsik 8 will be the same as for 7.1 in North America and will rise 5% in other markets.

That's certainly good news (and a good deal) for North America. A much better sounding MM phono stage for the same price as the previous MM phono stage.

[Arjen]

Good news for YouSA. Why +5% for Holland, Europe, what makes the American market this advantage?