Giella headphone amp

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Discodave
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by Discodave »

ThomasOK wrote: 2020-12-22 23:12 Congratulations. You may be distracted for a while!
Haha indeed. Many thanks Tom.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by lejonklou »

u252agz wrote: 2020-12-23 14:57 No impressions from the first units yet?
I've had three reports back by email, two of them from owners not on the forum. Hoping there will soon be some in here as well!
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by Defender »

Fredrik do you think the better than Sagatun Stereo performance is because of the missing input switching or rather because of the trim volume control or different circuit topology? I am asking with a hope that maybe Sagatun Mono and maybe Stereo is able to benefit from new findings.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by lejonklou »

It's the new circuitry - I call it Level 2. It will gradually work its way into all my products.

My only issue is that every step is so time consuming! And Level 2 has made it even worse. There seems to be no way around all the rigging of prototypes, listening and fine tuning detail after detail until every reasonable combination has been tried.

I need help. Finding the right person has proven difficult. Right now I'm looking for an engineering student. Perhaps for a master thesis.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by teatime »

I've been looking for a Kikkin preamp for my office setup for some time and was curious to see if my Grado RA1 headphone amp could be bettered. Giella seemed promising in both these categories, so I was quick to order one. I got it a few days before the holidays, and have had some time to play with it.

To not evaluate a completely new unit, I used it with my computer DAC for a few days before connecting it to the hifi system and actually comparing it to the RA1. The Grado RA1 exists in two versions - AC and battery powered. I have the latter version, which I bought 2nd hand. It isn't particularly powerful. It doesn't "resolve" well,  but it plays a tune.  Music is fun and engaging on it.

When I compare, I like to use music I haven't listened to recently, to not get too distracted by what I expect it to sound like. I pulled some records more or less at random from my shelf and sat down to compare the RA1 and Giella. First record is Sonny Rolllins - Way out West. A late 50s recording. First song on the album. RA1 is connected. Grado PS1000e carefully balanced on my head. Needle in the groove and.. it sounds sooo good! Some drum rythms before the sax comes in, then the bass and we're off. Fantastic recording. I instantly feel a pang of regret. Why the hell did I impulse buy a new amp? I don't need one. The RA1 is great. Giella can't possibly be better than this. I really am thinking this at this moment, and I am soo wrong.

I connect Giella, lower the arm, and.. all doubt instantly evaporates - I'm blown away by how good it sounds and, more importantly, how musically convincing it is. It's not a subtle improvement. Not only is there more of everything - tons more - and it feels like you can chose to listen to and follow whatever instrument you want in the mix. And despite this, which is a classic hifi trap, it is far more musically cohesive than before. The rythms, the interplay between the musicians, the way it all fits together as a whole, makes far more sense on the Giella than the RA1, while simultaneously sounding far "more". I realize the comparison is perhaps unfair (at least the price tag suggests it is) but the Giella is simply a huge improvement on the RA1. I quickly lost interest in making comparisons - it felt like a waste of time - and spent the rest of the evening playing records.

As a preamp in my office system, it replaces a passive volume control between a Gigaport ESI and a pair of Genelec 8020. I wasn't sure I would even be able to tell the difference in that setup, but that fear was unfounded. It didn't take long to realize that music was far more engaging, and I now regularly find myself stuck listening to live recordings on youtube, something I never used to have the patience for before. (A 2004 PJ Harvey show - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDkjRCM3gYQ - as I'm typing this. I also only recently discovered the NPR Tiny Desk concert series.)

I have no problems with the somewhat unusual rear-facing headphone jack, in fact in both my setups I prefer it. My only criticism of this product concerns the volume knob - it's small, smooth and a bit heavy to turn, which is an unfortunate combination as your fingers cannot always tell if you're turning it or not. It's not really a problem, if you have music playing, you can obviously tell using your ears.

I've expressed high hopes for a Lejonklou headphone amp before on this forum, and by any measure, Fredrik delivered. Giella more than met my expectations.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by Tendaberry »

Great write-up! Now, if I only needed a headphone amp...
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by tokenbrit »

Tendaberry wrote: 2021-01-06 17:05 Great write-up! Now, if I only needed a headphone amp...
Or a single input preamp ;)
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by tpetsch »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-01-06 17:06
Tendaberry wrote: 2021-01-06 17:05 Great write-up! Now, if I only needed a headphone amp...
Or a single input preamp ;)
I -for one- would highly consider a single input type preamp built upon the Giella type electronics architecture but with the addition of a remote type volume control. I listen to one source, LP, & my gear is in another room and I simply need the ability to instantly mute or tweak volume without leaving my seat.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by lejonklou »

teatime wrote: 2021-01-06 16:33 ...
I've expressed high hopes for a Lejonklou headphone amp before on this forum, and by any measure, Fredrik delivered. Giella more than met my expectations.
Thank you for that wonderful review, teatime!

I'm so happy to hear that you like it.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by El Mero Mero »

Hello Fredrik,

Have you compared any more headphones now that the Giella is finished?
lejonklou wrote: 2020-05-06 22:59 OK, time for my ranking of the six headphone models I've been testing for a while now.

From best to worst (among these six):
1. Abyss Diana
2. Abyss AB-1266
3. Grado SR125e
4. AKG 550
5. Audio Technica ATH-AD2000X
6. Bose NC700
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by u252agz »

I have had Giella 020 for one week now and its time for a review.

In short its an amazingly good little amplifier which just digs the music out of the source and makes it so enjoyable to listen to music through my Grado Headphones.

I thought my Schitt Magni amplifier was good and perhaps musical enough for me - but the Giella just allows so much more music to come through from the source that it is quite shocking and very, very enjoyable. I thought the Magni amp was good in allowing one to listen to the details that make headphone listening so compelling at times, but Giella lets one hear all of this and much more; and crucially adds the nuances and the relationships and interplay between the musicians and instruments that make it so musical.

I have been trying it on Demo so far( Thank you to Marco at Hexagon Audio for arranging this - no mean feat with Covid 19 and the Post Brexit situation) and have no intention of returning it across the channel.

No matter how high my expectations are of each new product from Lejonklou ( and it gets higher every time) - I am still blown away each time I listen to the latest one.

Well done Fredrik.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by Charlie1 »

Glad you're enjoying it!

Out of interest, will you try also try it as a preamp in your main system or are you worried you might enjoy it too much? :)
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by macrotech2 »

Great idea Charlie1! My guess is it will crucify the internal volume control of the KDS2 - which I originally wrote without noticing u252agz already had Sagatun Monos. That would be an even more interesting comparison though.
Last edited by macrotech2 on 2021-02-06 15:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by u252agz »

Charlie1 wrote: 2021-02-05 15:36 Glad you're enjoying it!

Out of interest, will you try also try it as a preamp in your main system or are you worried you might enjoy it too much? :)
I had not even thought to try it in my main system but I am currently using it as a preamp upstairs in the Bedroom system.

Giella is connected to My sneaky and Boazu and it sounds great With Grado RS2e via the headphone output and the ‘preamp out’ to Boazu and then Komponent 110s.


I seem to recall Fredrik mentioning that Giella was not quite up to Sagatun Mono Standards as yet, and I definitely need two sources ( three if one includes the unity gain feature for the AV system )and the remote volume facility of the Sagatuns.

Still would be interesting to see how KDS2 sounds with Just Giella and Tundra Monos - a project for a rainy day I suspect.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by ThomasOK »

Like Fredrik, I’ve never been big on headphone listening. Note this didn’t stop me from bugging him for years to make one! After all, there are people who are big into headphones and they deserve to be able to get the musical performance that Lejonklou delivers in the Giella. And boy, does it deliver. I have been burning it in on and off at the store for a couple of weeks and decided today it was ready for some serious listening. Well, I just had to wipe a tear out of my eye while listening to “Fire and Rain” by James Taylor using a Bluesound Vault the storage/player/DAC. Even though it is an entry level DAC it just really moved me. After that it went to a John Coltrane piece from Ballads and just couldn’t tear myself away. It is really great!

I listened to a lot of headphones but can’t go into that now as a turntable just came in for me to work on. But I am mostly listening to the Grado SR125e and they are really fine. I’ll leave it at that for now. Great job Fredrik!
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by Charlie1 »

u252agz wrote: 2021-02-05 23:11 I seem to recall Fredrik mentioning that Giella was not quite up to Sagatun Mono Standards as yet, and I definitely need two sources ( three if one includes the unity gain feature for the AV system )and the remote volume facility of the Sagatuns.

Still would be interesting to see how KDS2 sounds with Just Giella and Tundra Monos - a project for a rainy day I suspect.
My mistake - I looked at your kit lineup and thought you didn't have a preamp in your main setup. That doesn't make sense either cos I now recall you saying how important one is compared to the DVC.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by tokenbrit »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-02-06 00:22 .. I am mostly listening to the Grado SR125e and they are really fine.
o/t: have you listened to SR60e or 80e? Would be for occasional use - curious how they compare to the popular SR125e (not looking to spend that much)
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by u252agz »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-02-06 00:22 Like Fredrik, I’ve never been big on headphone listening. Note this didn’t stop me from bugging him for years to make one! After all, there are people who are big into headphones and they deserve to be able to get the musical performance that Lejonklou delivers in the Giella. And boy, does it deliver. I have been burning it in on and off at the store for a couple of weeks and decided today it was ready for some serious listening. Well, I just had to wipe a tear out of my eye while listening to “Fire and Rain” by James Taylor using a Bluesound Vault the storage/player/DAC. Even though it is an entry level DAC it just really moved me. After that it went to a John Coltrane piece from Ballads and just couldn’t tear myself away. It is really great!

I listened to a lot of headphones but can’t go into that now as a turntable just came in for me to work on. But I am mostly listening to the Grado SR125e and they are really fine. I’ll leave it at that for now. Great job Fredrik!
I’m also using Giella with an entry level streamer ( sneaky) and it sounds great.

If you are happy with Giella and Grado sr125e - try it with the Grado RS2e. - it’s so much better,

Unbelievable amount of detail which Giella pulls out of the sneaky and you hear so much more with the RS2e.

And , they look and feel so much nicer with the mahogany ear pieces and leather head band.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by ThomasOK »

tokenbrit wrote: 2021-02-06 02:11
ThomasOK wrote: 2021-02-06 00:22 .. I am mostly listening to the Grado SR125e and they are really fine.
o/t: have you listened to SR60e or 80e? Would be for occasional use - curious how they compare to the popular SR125e (not looking to spend that much)
SR60e are good, SR80e are better, SR125e are phenomenal. Spend the extra - you won't be disappointed. More info coming.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by lejonklou »

u252agz wrote: 2021-02-05 00:03Well done Fredrik.
Thank you u252agz for you kind words! I'm so happy to hear that you enjoy Giella.

Now, here's some unexpected development. Giella is about to get a bigger brother; Giella ∏

This all started with a headphone enthusiast in Paris, Pierre de la Caffinière, who is the founder of Headonist, a small boutique dedicated to headphone gear. Pierre wanted to test Giella, so I sent him one. At first he was absolutely thrilled by the performance, writing things like "Oh man, I love it!". So I thought that all was great and I could sign him up as a Giella retailer.

But Pierre is a serious enthusiast. He did a lot of listening and testing and after some days he wrote me again, saying that Giella couldn't drive all of his headphones to loud levels. Low bass notes were on some of them starting to distort at volume settings above 2-3 o'clock. And I thought "Huh! Maybe I haven't done my homework properly?" I needed to get to the bottom of this.

There are a lot of headphone models out there today, so many that's it hard to keep track of them all. Some are quite difficult loads. Unlike loudspeakers, the impedance of headphones varies a lot, so the difficulty is not always the same. Allow me to briefly explain:

A few models are really high impedance, e.g. 600 ohms, and they need lots of voltage to play loud. Giella can supply up to 6.5 Vrms, which ought to be enough for nearly all of them, because they're often reasonably efficient. For instance the classic Beyerdynamic T1, which is 600 ohms and 102 dB/mW in sensitivity, presents no problem. The rare 600 ohm version of the Sennheiser HD540 from the 80's, however, is only 94 dB and while Giella will be able to drive it fairly loud, it won't be super loud. So there are a few high impedance models that may present a challenge, but they are rare.

Much more common are headphones with low impedance, e.g. 32 ohms, and they need plenty of current, rather than voltage, to play loud. My estimation was that Giella has more than enough for virtually any model. For instance all Grado models are close to 100 dB/mW, which presents zero challenge. But there are some very inefficient ones out there, and then it can become a matter of how loud you wish to listen.

To give an example, the Abyss Diana that I tested have an impedance of 42 ohms and 91 dB in sensitivity. I could play really loud with Giella on those - a lot more than I could stand. But then there's another model of Diana - Diana Phi - which is 32 ohms and 91 dB. If you play loud and there's really deep bass at full recording level, then those headphones can make Giella struggle. Pierre sent me a list of songs to test; all of them with lots of deep bass, and I concluded that he was right. Low impedance + low sensitivity + low bass = power restriction.

OK, so now I was left with two choices: Be happy with Giella as it is, accepting that there are limits to what it can drive. Or try to make something more powerful. I chose the latter. The first ten days I was completely unsuccessful. It's easy to increase the power, but hard to do it without loosing musicality. Every attempt resulted in something I just wanted to switch off after five seconds. In the evenings I ordered components, some of them quite expensive. Add to that a selection process and they would become even more expensive. And guess what: The most expensive combination that I tried worked best! *) After some fine tuning, it outperformed Giella in every department.

Giella ∏ is born.
It looks just like Giella, except for a ∏ sticker on the rear panel.
It is more musical than Giella.
It is more powerful than Giella.
It costs around 1/3 more than Giella.

Those who already own a Giella can have it upgraded to the price difference between the two models. And that includes shipping both ways. The idea is that it shouldn't cost you anything more than if you had bought a Giella ∏ to begin with.


*) This is so rare that I can't recall it ever happening to me before - usually the most expensive components are far from the best.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-02-15 00:51 After some fine tuning, it outperformed Giella in every department.
.......with line out as well?

Thanks

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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by lejonklou »

matthias wrote: 2021-02-15 01:11 .......with line out as well?

Thanks

Matt
Yes!
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by Patdel »

I've read through the Giella threads and I feel inspired. Perhaps it's the only thing I need the DS, Giella, headphones and Spotify :) I could place everything easy accessible behind the sofa.

I 've sold off my amplifiers (Kikkin and 6100) and I've sent my Akurate DS/0 to Linn for upgrade. I've listened to Boazu and it was musically better than my old kombo. There was also no listening fatigue with Boazu after listening for a while.

I'm using apple ear phones, the ones with cable, when listening to podcasts. Those I can use a long time. I'm not sure I can stand Grados headphones as long on my head. I'll have to test. But I hope that with good source enough the small apple earphones will sound amazing. I'm sure someone has tried them or the likes?

Edit: Most likely I will go the Boazu route. The Giella idea is only a couple of hours old :)
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by cgospsa »

Greetings from Spain.

From specs: Giella is a headphone amplifier built in dual mono. That means each side handles one channel only; left and right. ...
With this in mind:
Would it be possible to change the Jack for a 4 pin XLR (female), and put the output on the front?
I have several headphones with cables terminated in XLR-4 pin (Amp-end).
What do you think?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Giella headphone amp

Post by Pierre@headonist »

Buy an adapter? Seriously, as the headphone output is located in the rear, an adapter will bring the XLR4 almost in the front. This is how I proceed with all my headphones which terminated in XLR4. Technically, only Fredrik could answer if balanced output will make a difference sound-wise and power-wise.
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