lejonklou wrote: ↑2020-10-09 23:25

matthias wrote: ↑2020-10-09 19:10 Will the HP output and the line output work both at the same time or are the outputs switched?

The volume OUT is switched. That means, when you plug a headphone into the jack, any amp and loudspeakers connected to OUT will go quiet.

I have assembled, tuned and listened to the first production Giella today, number 001. And I am very, very, VERY pleased.

My previous reference was the prototype called Giella+. In the development process there was also a less expensive version, about 65% the cost of Giella+, which I thought was OK, but once I decided to push it to level 2, the benefits were so great that the original Giella design was abandoned. When I did the final layout of the board in August, I decided to optimize it for power delivery rather than regard it as mainly a preamp. And the result that I finally experienced today was really interesting.

Listening to Giella 001 through headphones is even better than I thought it would be - more powerful and with a sublime control and timing that the prototype doesn't quite have. Very addictive. I have so far not listened to any headphone amp that is anywhere near that sense of timing and musicality. I am so much looking forward to YOUR impressions of it!

The line out feature, however, was a bit better on the "Giella+" prototype. That one was frighteningly good as a volume control driving a power amp, but a little less capable of driving headphones directly. I figured it would be a compromise that I could tilt either way, and I decided to tilt it in favor of driving headphones. It turned out to work exactly as I had expected.

Reading this I can only imagine a project coming to light in the future similar to the "Giella+" where the "volume control driving a power amp" "uncompressed" takes precedence? ...The words "frighteningly good" has peaked my interest.

lejonklou wrote: ↑2020-10-09 23:25 The line out feature, however, was a bit better on the "Giella+" prototype. That one was frighteningly good as a volume control driving a power amp, but a little less capable of driving headphones directly.

Fredrik,
thanks for clarification.

As you have already done the developing work for both variants what do you think about launching the "Giella+" prototype too as a pure minimalist pre amp without the HP output ?

I am very intrigued by this frighteningly good as a volume control driving a power amp.

Please do it :-)

Matt

What you are asking for, tpetsch and Matt, is a new Kikkin. Right? This time without remote control.

I think such a product would interest very few people.

EDIT: Sorry, that particular suggestion was Matt's only, not exactly tpetsch's.

lejonklou wrote: ↑2020-10-10 10:24 What you are asking for, tpetsch and Matt, is a new Kikkin. Right? This time without remote control.

Yes, only one input, no remote, highest SQ for the money.
I never listen to HP, so I think it would be a very interesting byproduct.

But I understand your POV

Matt

tpetsch wrote: ↑2020-10-10 01:55

lejonklou wrote: ↑2020-10-09 23:25

matthias wrote: ↑2020-10-09 19:10 Will the HP output and the line output work both at the same time or are the outputs switched?

The volume OUT is switched. That means, when you plug a headphone into the jack, any amp and loudspeakers connected to OUT will go quiet.

I have assembled, tuned and listened to the first production Giella today, number 001. And I am very, very, VERY pleased.

My previous reference was the prototype called Giella+. In the development process there was also a less expensive version, about 65% the cost of Giella+, which I thought was OK, but once I decided to push it to level 2, the benefits were so great that the original Giella design was abandoned. When I did the final layout of the board in August, I decided to optimize it for power delivery rather than regard it as mainly a preamp. And the result that I finally experienced today was really interesting.

Listening to Giella 001 through headphones is even better than I thought it would be - more powerful and with a sublime control and timing that the prototype doesn't quite have. Very addictive. I have so far not listened to any headphone amp that is anywhere near that sense of timing and musicality. I am so much looking forward to YOUR impressions of it!

The line out feature, however, was a bit better on the "Giella+" prototype. That one was frighteningly good as a volume control driving a power amp, but a little less capable of driving headphones directly. I figured it would be a compromise that I could tilt either way, and I decided to tilt it in favor of driving headphones. It turned out to work exactly as I had expected.

Reading this I can only imagine a project coming to light in the future similar to the "Giella+" where the "volume control driving a power amp" "uncompressed" takes precedence? ...The words "frighteningly good" has peaked my interest.

Same here. I'm now down to using the optimum single input on my Sagatun Monos. Is it potentially better than that?

matthias wrote: ↑2020-10-10 13:20

lejonklou wrote: ↑2020-10-10 10:24 What you are asking for, tpetsch and Matt, is a new Kikkin. Right? This time without remote control.

Yes, only one input, no remote, highest SQ for the money.
I never listen to HP, so I think it would be a very interesting byproduct.

But I understand your POV

Matt

How about a new Kikkin with remote control?

macrotech2 wrote: ↑2020-10-10 13:37 How about a new Kikkin with remote control?

IMO, absolutely OK when possible without sacrificing SQ.

Matt

matthias wrote: ↑2020-10-10 15:46

macrotech2 wrote: ↑2020-10-10 13:37 How about a new Kikkin with remote control?

IMO, absolutely OK when possible without sacrificing SQ.

Matt

Agreed. I’d like to think that was possible - otherwise Sagatun and Boazu would have a rotary volume knob wouldn’t they?

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-10 18:19 Would a "Kikkin+" cost more or less than a Giella headphone amp? Why not do like the Boazu and add several inputs with no switching.

IIRC, Fredrik mentioned that the multiple inputs of Boazu do sound inferior in comparison to only one input with no switching. Further, IMO, the Giella case seems to be too small and lightweight for multiple inputs.

Matt

matthias wrote: ↑2020-10-10 18:46 IIRC, Fredrik mentioned that the multiple inputs of Boazu do sound inferior in comparison to only one input with no switching. Further, IMO, the Giella case seems to be too small and lightweight for multiple inputs.

Matt,
It is quite clear in the photo shown, at least two more inputs could be offered, probably three; totaling four inputs. The transformer is in the front, so there is no problem with weight distribution. My recollection is Fredrik stated his clever technique in the Boazu sounded better than multiple inputs with a switch. Removing the switching headphone jack (no matter how good it is) would improve the pre-amp output.

The Kikkin never appealed to me as it only has one input. I have to get up to change records so when playing vinyl, a remote control is unnecessary. If I am using the computer, streamer, or TV; those have remote volume adjustments. I usually don't use them as it slightly degrades the sound. However, it is just a setting or two away if desired.

Ron The Mon

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-10 19:08 It is quite clear in the photo shown, at least two more inputs could be offered, probably three; totaling four inputs. My recollection is Fredrik stated his clever technique in the Boazu sounded better than multiple inputs with a switch. Removing the switching headphone jack (no matter how good it is) would improve the pre-amp output.

The Kikkin never appealed to me as it only has one input. I have to get up to change records so when playing vinyl, a remote control is unnecessary. If I am using the computer, streamer, or TV; those have remote volume adjustments. I usually don't use them as it slightly degrades the sound. However, it is just a setting or two away if desired.

Ron,
I agree removing the HP jack is a good thing and a remote is not important for me too.

Fredrik mentioned that connecting one input to Boazu is best, with every additional input connected the sound gets worse and with three or four inputs connected it is better to have a switch..
So to have one unswitched input is by far the best.
The Giella has a mirrored channel orientation. I think to have more than one input is not a perfect solution since you have too much interconnects for this lightweight case.

YMMV

Matt

matthias wrote: ↑2020-10-10 19:22 ... every additional input connected, the sound gets worse, and with three or four inputs connected it is better to have a switch..

So to have one unswitched input is the best.

If you use only one input, none of that matters.

The Giella has a mirrored channel orientation. I think to have more than one input is not a perfect solution since you have too much interconnects for this lightweight case.

Look at the back of this Sagatun stereo:

There is nothing "perfect" about this solution at all; red cable ends connect to white, white to red, red to red, white to white; and they cross over each other. So what?

Have you ever picked up a Sagatun? It is much lighter than it looks. A Giella is probably the same size-to-weight ratio.

YMMV

A mile in Germany is the same as a mile in Detroit. Maybe it's about time you buy a Lejonklou product and put your money where your mouth is on this forum.

Ron The Mon

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-10 19:53 If you use only one input, none of that matters.

Agree,
but what is the advantage for you to have multiple inputs?
For best quality you would have to disconnect the inputs you do not use. This is much more inconvenient than to connect the input you actually use.

IMO, Fredrik will find the best solution if he wants to launch the Giella as a pre amp.

Matt

matthias wrote: ↑2020-10-10 15:46

macrotech2 wrote: ↑2020-10-10 13:37 How about a new Kikkin with remote control?

IMO, absolutely OK when possible without sacrificing SQ.

Matt

But how will you know sound quality will have been sacrificed with remote if you have nothing to compare it with Matt?

Lego wrote: ↑2020-10-11 12:11 But how will you know sound quality will have been sacrificed with remote if you have nothing to compare it with Matt?

I am sure Fredrik knows.:-)

Edit: BTW, I am happy without remote.

Matt

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-10 19:53

matthias wrote: ↑2020-10-10 19:22 ... every additional input connected, the sound gets worse, and with three or four inputs connected it is better to have a switch..

So to have one unswitched input is the best.

If you use only one input, none of that matters.

The Giella has a mirrored channel orientation. I think to have more than one input is not a perfect solution since you have too much interconnects for this lightweight case.

Look at the back of this Sagatun stereo:

There is nothing "perfect" about this solution at all; red cable ends connect to white, white to red, red to red, white to white; and they cross over each other. So what?

Have you ever picked up a Sagatun? It is much lighter than it looks. A Giella is probably the same size-to-weight ratio.

YMMV

A mile in Germany is the same as a mile in Detroit. Maybe it's about time you buy a Lejonklou product and put your money where your mouth is on this forum.

Ron The Mon

Talking about putting mouths places Ron,did you ever buy the DAC you had on preorder

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-10 19:53 A mile in Germany is the same as a mile in Detroit. Maybe it's about time you buy a Lejonklou product and put your money where your mouth is on this forum.

Ron The Mon

Blimey! So much anger...

springwood64 wrote: ↑2020-10-11 12:51

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-10 19:53 A mile in Germany is the same as a mile in Detroit. Maybe it's about time you buy a Lejonklou product and put your money where your mouth is on this forum.

Ron The Mon

Blimey! So much anger...

Forum titans. This is not a battlefield.

I have this nagging question about System Matching:

I’d like to ask if there would be any technical reasons an Entity and/or Sagatun would not work well with my now vintage -but lovingly maintained- 80's 90's Linn/Naim system?
Things like in/out levels and impedances?
If I could slot in a new Entity phono stage and preamp -perhaps the new "frighteningly good" headphone Pre?- between my LP12 and Naim active amps into DMS I would strongly consider it. I’ve had my system a long time and I still like what it does and want to improve on it. From what I am reading here I am thinking Lejonklou gear carries on with the similar LINN / Naim "Tune" philosophy. But I'm worried that slotting a newly designed Lejonklou piece or two into my vintage system will somehow not play well together? Thanks!

springwood64 wrote: ↑2020-10-11 12:51

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-10 19:53 A mile in Germany is the same as a mile in Detroit. Maybe it's about time you buy a Lejonklou product and put your money where your mouth is on this forum.

Ron The Mon

Blimey! So much anger...

Pete,
It was a joke! Lego posted above you and got the humor. In fact, Lego outdid me one and said putting mouths places. That was funny.

I don't own any Lejonklou products myself (yet) and mattias knows this. I was told Fredrik doesn't like smiley faces, emoticons, GIFs, etc. cluttering the content on this Forum. How about this; from now on, if anyone on this Forum writes something that could be misconstrued, we put a double period at the end of that sentence.

So lighten up Francis, I mean Pete..

Lego wrote: ↑2020-10-11 12:23 Talking about putting mouths places Ron, did you ever buy the DAC you had on preorder

As a matter of fact, I did. No shop has been selling the GIGAPORT eX in the United States until just a few days ago. They did not send out any alerts as they cancelled all preorders. It was pure coincidence I checked on it just the other day. Also coincidentally, several months back, I was trading some parts at a local guitar store and saw a GIGAPORT HD+ for sale brand new for $70. It was traded in. I swapped an Ibanez guitar neck for it even-Steven.

I plan on recording and comparing the HD+, eX, and Mac mini headphone-out in the future. I will record both GIGAPORT products brand new and broken-in. I will send those recordings via private email to only you as I'm sure no one else on this Forum would be interested..

A GIGAPORT HD+ or eX will look really cool on top of a Lejonklou Giella. The combined musical reproduction would be frighteningly good. Or so I expect. It would be interesting to compare their headphone outs. I have a styrofoam head I use to store my headphones on and am thinking of routing then out to accept an iPhone to record sound comparisons.

Ron The Mon
Simply-Awesome..

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-11 19:17
So lighten up Francis, I mean Pete..

Ah, Detroit humour. The Glasgow of USA..

Is the Karousel Glasgow humor?

tpetsch wrote: ↑2020-10-11 19:05 I have this nagging question about System Matching:

I’d like to ask if there would be any technical reasons an Entity and/or Sagatun would not work well with my now vintage -but lovingly maintained- 80's 90's Linn/Naim system?
Things like in/out levels and impedances?
If I could slot in a new Entity phono stage and preamp -perhaps the new "frighteningly good" headphone Pre?- between my LP12 and Naim active amps into DMS, I would strongly consider it. I’ve had my system a long time and I still like what it does and want to improve on it. From what I am reading here I am thinking Lejonklou gear carries on with the similar LINN/Naim "Tune" philosophy. But I'm worried that slotting a newly designed Lejonklou piece or two into my vintage system will somehow not play well together?

Gretsch,
Are you local to me? Do you and I know WheresMyNaim? I have 1992 passive DMS Isobariks fed by mono Naim NAP110s. Pre-amp is a (mostly) stock NAC42. I have converted my outboard power supply connectors to RCAs. It is off-topic but Naim amps sound better with the power-supply ground used as 0V reference.

I'd also like to hear your LP12, "PMS" Naim hi-fi. Send me your address. The bottom line is you are also welcome into my home to compare a Giella (and Sagatun) into Naim amps, into Isobariks. I am quite sure Tom O'Keefe will loan them out, and even more sure he would show up to hear it, especially since I'd supply free beer..

Jokes aside, Tom and Fredrik are quite liberal in loaning out equipment.

I just sold my last Gretsch guitar, a favorite of mine. Spellcheck thinks you're a spectacular vintage model.

Ron The Mon

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-11 19:17 I don't own any Lejonklou products myself (yet) and mattias knows this.

Really?
I thought you own a Lejonklou power cord.

Matt

matthias wrote: ↑2020-10-11 20:05

Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-10-11 19:17 I don't own any Lejonklou products myself (yet) and mattias knows this.

Really?
I thought you own a Lejonklou power cord.

Matt

Matt,
Double periods please, you jokester.

Ron The Mon