Headphone amp?

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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by lejonklou »

Matteo wrote: 2019-10-09 21:18 Maybe I was misunderstood

I indented one case without power amp section and a couple of inputs

Boazu has 4 inputs

M
Aha, a Boazu preamp. That's a different story and an even better idea than I thought.

Partly I have tried making a simpler preamp based on how Boazu was made. It was worse than expected when being on its own instead of integrated with the power amp as in Boazu. But there might be other angles on this that I haven't thought of yet.
Matteo wrote: 2019-10-09 21:20 Hard challenge

Weren’t the Tundra and Sagatun?
Yes, they were hard and FUN challenges.

I never work to meet a specific price, though.
I only work towards getting the best possible performance from a given circuit. The price ends up where it ends up.
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by ThomasOK »

Matteo wrote: 2019-10-09 21:18
ThomasOK wrote: 2019-10-09 20:23 You don't ask for much, do you? It's a nice dream but a $1795 Slipsik 7, a quality headphone amp and an expanded $3999 Boazu (more inputs and pre out) all for less than the current Boazu? I assume you also don't want to give up any sound quality. I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were you. ;-)
Maybe I was misunderstood

I indented one case without power amp section and a couple of inputs

Boazu has 4 inputs

M
Aha, I definitely read that differently. Fredrik already answered the idea of a separate Boazu preamp, so that sounds like a no go. So we're basically talking about a simplified Sagatun with phono stage and headphone amp. Then add amp of your choice. That isn't unlike what some other companies make but there are always limitations to having more devices using the same power supply. Also most multiple function units cheap out on the headphone amp or phono stage or both. Having just a couple of inputs would make very little difference in the price as once you have accommodated more than one you might as well have four or five as two.

Still it is interesting. You might gain enough from having the Slipsik circuit being driven by the switch mode power supplies to overcome putting it in the same case. You also might gain some from not having interconnects. So the removal of the case and of the transformer, etc. would reduce some costs. The preamp would likely lose a bit of performance for the other inputs but the possible gain in the Slipsik part could outweigh that for the turntable - an interesting tradeoff. As for the headphone stage it remains to be determined what that would entail.

Still and all I see it being an expensive proposition, likely easily more than a Sagatun 1.4. But it is a more interesting idea than I first thought.
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by ThomasOK »

But if we are coming up with ideas under this heading, how about a headphone amp with 3 inputs and a preamp out so it can do double duty as a preamp. It is something others have done and you already are going to need a volume control and some inputs on there. So it could be used as a standalone headphone amp but also as an analog preamp. Might be tough to fit in a Slipsik box with the need for 4 pair of RCAs on the back, but it might help with your dilemma. Just plug a Gaio 2 or Slipsik 7 in and you are good for LP playback and only take up 1 shelf space.
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by Stephan »

Or perhaps a new Kikkin, now with experience from Sagatun and Boazo.
A product as clean as it can be.
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by Matteo »

Stephan wrote: 2019-10-10 19:10 Or perhaps a new Kikkin, now with experience from Sagatun and Boazo.
A product as clean as it can be.
+ 1
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by Matteo »

ThomasOK wrote: 2019-10-10 17:07 But if we are coming up with ideas under this heading, how about a headphone amp with 3 inputs and a preamp out so it can do double duty as a preamp. It is something others have done and you already are going to need a volume control and some inputs on there. So it could be used as a standalone headphone amp but also as an analog preamp. Might be tough to fit in a Slipsik box with the need for 4 pair of RCAs on the back, but it might help with your dilemma. Just plug a Gaio 2 or Slipsik 7 in and you are good for LP playback and only take up 1 shelf space.
It seems a good compromise

Not the one box solution that I had in mind but a nice idea

M
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by teatime »

ThomasOK wrote: 2019-10-10 17:07 how about a headphone amp with 3 inputs and a preamp out so it can do double duty as a preamp. It is something others have done [...]
I was going to suggest that too. I've seen some such products, and for me personally, exactly the product I'm looking for.

I have no idea how different a preamp design is from a headphone amp per se, but I once tried running my AKG 550 headphones directly from the pre out of a Linn KK. It sounded pretty good! A bit odd and lacking power, but extremely melodic.
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by Matteo »

The front headphones out of my AK/1 sounds quite good and also its phono board

M
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by jonteman »

lejonklou wrote: 2018-02-10 18:53
Matteo wrote:Besides a streamer, it could be interesting a Lejonklou headphone amp in a Slipsik case or a Slipsik with an headphone out ...
Yes, you're right.

In fact I already have two designs ready. One made several years ago, the second one expensive and probably much better - but I haven't yet built it so I don't know for sure.

My problem is lack of time. I can only manage one major project at a time. I need help! I have a trainee, but he's not yet skilled in drawing circuit boards, soldering prototypes or tuning circuits. I need someone with a decent understanding of electronics, who's a quick learner and most importantly understands the purpose of our work: Giving people a thrill when they listen to music with our gear. He or she doesn't have to live in Uppsala or even Sweden.

Anyone who's interested should send me an email now!
Why don't you write a small ad on FB for instance? I can share it on one of the biggest hifi-groups there.
Or just a text I can copy-paste.
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Re: Headphone amp?

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Re: Headphone amp?

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Elegant!
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by El Mero Mero »

Is the headphone jack on the rear of the unit?
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by teatime »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-10-08 15:02 Coming soon
:D
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by ThomasOK »

El Mero Mero wrote: 2020-10-08 16:42 Is the headphone jack on the rear of the unit?
Yes. Unless you want to turn it around, then the cool volume control would be on the back of the unit. ;-)
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Re: Headphone amp?

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Good news!
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Re: Headphone amp?

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Perfect ...
Music First ...
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by lejonklou »

El Mero Mero wrote: 2020-10-08 16:42 Is the headphone jack on the rear of the unit?
Yes, and there's a reason: Performance!

To put the jack on the front, it would need cables running from the board, past the transformer and the AC voltage. I found it clearly better to solder the jack directly to the board. Also, the best sounding jack that I found (I tested both 6.35 and 3.5 mm sizes) was a 6.35 (1/4") model for pcb mounting.
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by Stephan »

Sweet!
Been waiting for this for more than 10 years.
What headphones have been used during development?
I assume headphone socket at the back and a mechanical volume knob at the front?
Is it designed to be plugged directly to a source or does it gain performance with a good preamplifier in between?
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by lejonklou »

Stephan wrote: 2020-10-08 21:22 Sweet!
Been waiting for this for more than 10 years.
What headphones have been used during development?
I assume headphone socket at the back and a mechanical volume knob at the front?
Is it designed to be plugged directly to a source or does it gain performance with a good preamplifier in between?
Thank you for your patience!

I have used the headphones that I mentioned on this forum, in the headphone thread. Giella will drive any kind of headphones and to very high levels.

Yes, a volume knob on the front. And a rather different one as well - more about that later.

For best performance, it should be plugged directly into a source. A fixed (tape) out on a preamp will also work. The regular outputs of a preamp can also work, then you'll have to set the Giella volume knob to a fixed position (as high as practical is recommended), switch off your power amp and use the volume of the preamp.

Giella can also be used as a pre amp. The left and right output is controlled by the volume knob, just like the headphone jack. Used as a pre amp Giella is actually crazy good, but it doesn't have a remote...
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by ThomasOK »

Yes, mechanical knob (that is quite cool) on the front attached to a very high quality pot (would you expect otherwise?). It can be used directly with a source or it can be connected to a tape out or pre out of a preamp or an integrated if you want multiple inputs. There is a line out that is volume controlled, so it can also act as a Super Kikkin.
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by teatime »

ThomasOK wrote: 2020-10-08 23:04 There is a line out that is volume controlled, so it can also act as a Super Kikkin.
Yes!! This sounds like exactly the product I was hoping for!

Eagerly awaiting more info... :)
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by Matteo »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-10-08 23:02
The regular outputs of a preamp can also work, then you'll have to set the Giella volume knob to a fixed position (as high as practical is recommended), switch off your power amp and use the volume of the preamp.
Interesting!

Does "as high as paractical" mean at maximum level?

Any indications of the price range?

Thanks

M.
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by lejonklou »

Matteo wrote: 2020-10-09 09:46 Does "as high as paractical" mean at maximum level?

Any indications of the price range?
Well, it depends. If you set Giella to maximum, it acts like a mini power amp. That is the best sounding option if the volume on your preamp becomes reasonable. The output level of sources and sensitivity of headphones vary. You will need to test it in practice.

Price will be in between Slipsik 7 and Entity. It will not be set until I get the estimate from the great team at Mitac, my assembly company.
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Re: Headphone amp?

Post by matthias »

lejonklou wrote: 2020-10-09 11:51 Well, it depends. If you set Giella to maximum, it acts like a mini power amp. That is the best sounding option if the volume on your preamp becomes reasonable. The output level of sources and sensitivity of headphones vary. You will need to test it in practice.
Will the HP output and the line output work both at the same time or are the outputs switched?
Thanks

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Re: Headphone amp?

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matthias wrote: 2020-10-09 19:10 Will the HP output and the line output work both at the same time or are the outputs switched?
The volume OUT is switched. That means, when you plug a headphone into the jack, any amp and loudspeakers connected to OUT will go quiet.

I have assembled, tuned and listened to the first production Giella today, number 001. And I am very, very, VERY pleased.

My previous reference was the prototype called Giella+. In the development process there was also a less expensive version, about 65% the cost of Giella+, which I thought was OK, but once I decided to push it to level 2, the benefits were so great that the original Giella design was abandoned. When I did the final layout of the board in August, I decided to optimize it for power delivery rather than regard it as mainly a preamp. And the result that I finally experienced today was really interesting.

Listening to Giella 001 through headphones is even better than I thought it would be - more powerful and with a sublime control and timing that the prototype doesn't quite have. Very addictive. I have so far not listened to any headphone amp that is anywhere near that sense of timing and musicality. I am so much looking forward to YOUR impressions of it!

The line out feature, however, was a bit better on the "Giella+" prototype. That one was frighteningly good as a volume control driving a power amp, but a little less capable of driving headphones directly. I figured it would be a compromise that I could tilt either way, and I decided to tilt it in favor of driving headphones. It turned out to work exactly as I had expected.
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