New Lejonklou Preamplifier

[Broccoli]

Split from the thread "Speakers"/Az

I want to hear all about the new Lejonklou preamp! (I'm only guessing there is one coming.)

[lejonklou]

Soon, I promise!

I have to try squeezing a little more performance out of it first. And many production details have to be taken care of.

After that I hope you will all get a chance to hear it!

[lejonklou]

Just wanted to give you an update on the progress of this project.

Sound quality is the number one priority and it has become impressively high.

A moderate price is the second priority and this is the real challenge at the moment. The high performance requires complicated fine tuning of several parameters, which increases cost. I am trying different solutions to get around this, in order to make it more easily produced - without any loss of sound quality.

[Azazello]

I have done some listening this weekend and I must say that I'm blown away! :D

Together with, for example, Akurate DS the value-for-money will be unbelievably good. Maybe it should be renamed "Killin"? :mrgreen:

[pär]

Wow thats sounds great! I just sold my 5103 and looking for some new preamp. :D

[lejonklou]

Update: Kikkin is now into production and the first units are expected in late November.

I spent the better part of October trying to work out all the details, so that the production guys would get everything right. And from previous experiences, I expect some additional questions to pop up during the next few weeks. It's really a pleasure to work with these guys, as they pay attention to every (seemingly insignificant) instruction and have a great feeling for quality.

When a Kikkin has been built, I download the firmware and hook it up for one parameter that needs manual fine tuning. This is done with fixed resistors that are soldered in place. Then it's listened to, with music, to make certain it performs as it should before it's packed down. I feel I need to do these last steps myself to be certain each Kikkin turns out right. It takes a bit of time, but if I remove the fine tuning there will be quite noticeable variations in performance.

EDIT: The fine tuning became three parameters instead of one. More time consuming, but as it pays off in higher performance it's worth the effort.

[SaltyDog]

I've been looking for a PreAmp (exotik/akurate). How can one in the USA hear and then get ahold of a kikkin (gotta love that name)?

[rowlandhills]

Can you give us any more info about this?
For example, is it 2 channel only, or multi-channel? Does it have multiple outputs (like the Kairn) or assume that power amps can be daisy chained?
Thanks

[lejonklou]

Kikkin is a remote controlled single input single output stereo preamplifier. In other words, a volume control.

The idea behind it is to provide maximum sound quality to a minimal price. And by maximum sound quality I mean that it sounds better than almost anything else out there.

I decided to release this product in all its functional simplicity because of the phenomenal price to performance ratio. It is possible that a complete preamp with more functions will be released later, but for many reasons (bigger enclosure, more electronics etc) that kind of product will become much more expensive.

Kikkin is intended for the enthusiast that only uses one source, and for the second system in the cottage, at work, in the study etc.

It will be available in black and silver, in European, North American and UK models.

[Broccoli]

You need to tell us the price!

[lejonklou]

It was intentionally that I didn't mention the price yet, Broccoli. Some parts are still under negotiation. I am pushing in one direction and the manufacturer is pointing out that there are a lot more steps than in the making of a Kinki...

But I am fairly certain it will end up below 6000 SEK / 600 Euro.

As soon as I know for certain, I will report here.

[Charlie1]

Sounds like superb value for money to me, especially if it can better the Akurate Pre!!

If Linn do ever produce a megabucks Lingo/Linto then I'll be very hard pushed to afford one. But downgrading my KK to a Kikkin would free up a lot of cash! :)

Look forward to seeing the pics and very pleased to hear it has a remote control. Having not had one a couple of years ago, it was nice to get one when I upgraded. However, going back to no remote now would not be much fun.

[Music Lover]

But downgrading my KK to a Kikkin would free up a lot of cash! :)

Bad idea!
Even if Kikkin is as an Akurate Kontrol, Klimax Kontrol is a LOT better and the new KK is again massively better than the old KK.

[rowlandhills]

But downgrading my KK to a Kikkin would free up a lot of cash! :)

Bad idea!
Even if Kikkin is as an Akurate Kontrol, Klimax Kontrol is a LOT better and the new KK is again massively better than the old KK.

I'm guessing that KlimaxDS + Kikkin would be better than Akurate DS + Klimax Kontrol though, and that's probably a realistic tradeoff for a few people :)

[Music Lover]

But downgrading my KK to a Kikkin would free up a lot of cash! :)

Bad idea!
Even if Kikkin is as an Akurate Kontrol, Klimax Kontrol is a LOT better and the new KK is again massively better than the old KK.

I'm guessing that KlimaxDS + Kikkin would be better than Akurate DS + Klimax Kontrol though, and that's probably a realistic tradeoff for a few people :)

But if you own a KK, how much do you get selling it? After buying a Kikkin, I doubt you have enough cash to upgrade from Akurate DS to Klimax DS.

[David Neel]

The Kikkin sounds very interesting - I plan replacing my Wakonda with an Exotik when the time is right. If the Kikkin is in that league, or better...

Is there any form of external switching which would allow more than one input? Without degrading the musicality? Or, is that why the full pre-amplifier would be much more expensive - to provide such switching?

I think I know the answer.... and I think it's not what I'd like it to be.

[lejonklou]

rowlandhills: You are right. When bought new it's the same amount of money and the first option will be much better.

If one has bought a KK second hand, as I believe Charlie1 has, I think it's likely one can sell it for about the same price. If a source upgrade then gets within reach, I would certainly consider it a good idea!

David: The problem is that the switching does indeed "sound" a bit... Excluding it has some advantages.

Adding some switching circuitry does not need to cost a fortune, but...
Good connectors do cost a bit.
The many inputs at the back require a bigger enclosure.
If you take a small and rigid enclosure like Kikkin and just make it bigger, it becomes less rigid. You preferably need to make it beefier as well. Which makes it more expensive.
Packaging and shipment costs will follow in the upward trend.

[ThomasOK]

David: The problem is that the switching does indeed "sound" a bit... Excluding it has some advantages.

Adding some switching circuitry does not need to cost a fortune, but...
Good connectors do cost a bit.
The many inputs at the back require a bigger enclosure.
If you take a small and rigid enclosure like Kikkin and just make it bigger, it becomes less rigid. You preferably need to make it beefier as well. Which makes it more expensive.
Packaging and shipment costs will follow in the upward trend.

This all makes sense to me and is exactly the answer I would expect. I imagine it is late in the game but I do wonder how difficult/costly it would be to have just two inputs. A simple toggle switch (I know it is never really simple :)) and a second set of RCAs would do. It seems to me that it MIGHT be possible to add a second input without needing to change a lot of factors you mention above. And I think that having just two inputs could give you a substantially larger market. With the popularity and performance of the DS units there could be a fair number of purists who will end up with a DS and an LP12 as the only devices hooked into their preamp - I see myself going that way in the near future. A two input preamp would be ideal for this type of person and it would mean they would also need external phono stages! Just thought I'd throw out the idea, although I have to admit in my case you'd have to pry the Klimax Kontrol out of my cold, dead hands (unless, of course, I found something better)!

[lejonklou]

Good point, Thomas. I will consider it in the future.

As the Kikkin is designed, however, there is no room for a second input at the back. The input is surrounded by input circuitry and it can't be multiplied without more space - which requires a larger enclosure. But it's an interesting idea, provided I make something with more space and find a switch that don't sound too bad.

I have a switch which is rather good, but it has solder lugs, which requires cabling to and from the circuit board. In total a noticeable degradation of the sound. The single input Kikkin will remain on top performance wise.

[trumpeten]

Dear Lejonklou

This sounds great!

Two questions:
1. I asssume you still have to have a separate phono preamplier, or? No plans of having it alreay built in = a Kinki/Slipsik with a volume knob?

2. What power amp is recomended? Or will it fit with any good active loudspeakers to have a really minimalistic system? I just saw that Quad released their small bookshelf speakers in an active version...

Regards,
Andreas

[Ceilidh]

Mr. Lejonklou,

I don't really want to put you in an awkward position :D, but if you wouldn't mind making a performance prediction, where do you expect the Kikkin to fall performance-wise among the existing Linn preamps (in simple 2-channel stereo mode, of course)?

That is, do you have a sense as to how the Kikkin will perform relative to the UniSC, Majik Kontrol, Exotik/Akurate, Kinos, Kisto, and Klimax Kontrol? (And have I listed the above Linn components in the correct ascending order?)

Good luck with the final tuning, and congrats on finding a supplier who will work so carefully with you! Best wishes, :D

-C

[lejonklou]

Hi Andreas!

1. I asssume you still have to have a separate phono preamplier, or? No plans of having it alreay built in = a Kinki/Slipsik with a volume knob?

From the beginning, there were plans to try this. But it soon became apparent that the power supplies needed to be separate for best performance and there was no way to fit it all in a small Slipsik enclosure.

With the enclosure twice as big and two separate power supplies and circuit boards inside, it would be almost the same as two separate boxes...

2. What power amp is recomended? Or will it fit with any good active loudspeakers to have a really minimalistic system?

No specific recommendation of power amps. Kikkin drive almost anything - e.g. five daisy chained Linn power amps (which is what you need for aktiv Akurates).

Small active speakers will be a perfect companion if you want your system to be physically compact.

[lejonklou]

where do you expect the Kikkin to fall performance-wise

I have decided not to say anything about this until the production Kikkins arrive. The first musical evening will be at Tonlaget in Gotheburg on the 27th of November.

I expect some reviews will appear after that.

[Broccoli]

I have decided not to say anything about this until the production Kikkins arrive. The first musical evening will be at Tonlaget in Gotheburg on the 27th of November.

I'll be there! It's going to be fun to listen and to see you again!

[matthias]

Dear Mr. Lejonklou,

is it possible to post some photos of the Kikkin for all, who can not attend the first musical evening at Tonlaget in Gothenburg?

When will Kikkin be at your product page?

Best regards

matthias