Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

matthias wrote:I think it should be a normal procedure that the manufacturer of a reviewed product gets a copy of the review before publishing and the opportunity to write a comment.
I didn't ask for it. Will think of that next time!
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Music Lover »

A publication that try to stay objective normally only add the vendor comment, and will not edit the orginal article.

It can also depend on the number of ads, hehe ;)
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by ThomasOK »

In the editorial in the same issue Paul Messenger talks about the state of Hi-Fi publishing and the possibility that some magazines send out reviews ahead and allow manufacturers to actually modify them. When the Slipsik 5.1 and Kinki 3 were reviewed by Michael Fremer in Stereophile I was sent a draft before publication but I was only allowed to suggest corrections of technical errors (which there were none). Although I was allowed a manufacturers comment. HiFi Critic has a policy not to send out advance copies of reviews nor do they accept advertising so that they can remain neutral. This is why the issues and subscriptions cost so much. I just went ahead and subscribed for this year. Interestingly the back issues are less expensive than new ones.

I don't think Fredrik has much to worry about. The first text under the table of contents page that you can view on the web is as follows:

"We have twelve product reviews, starting with Chris Frankland assessing the unusual and intriguing Lejonklou Boazu and Gaio electronics, a phono stage and integrated amplifier with a surprising performance." - See more at: http://www.hificritic.com/vol-11-no-1-e ... 5QZzM.dpuf

I note that they are quite tech savvy. When I copied the above text it automatically added the web page link when I pasted it. So, yeah, I'm guessing they don't want full magazine pdfs floating around. But they do let you read the editorials and a couple reviews/articles from each issue.

I look forward to seeing the full review!
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by macrotech2 »

By coincidence we are visiting a friend who has a subscription. As I mentioned the review the postman put the issue through the door. The combination gets a Best Buy and is a good review putting across Fredrik's philosophy well.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

macrotech2 wrote:The combination gets a Best Buy and is a good review putting across Fredrik's philosophy well.
Wonderful!

Thank you for reporting.
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Boazu Review

Post by Ron The Mon »

Chris Frankland is a legend. He is the only hi-fi reviewer I know of who has been honest and consistant his entire career is this field. It is inconceivable he wouldn't like Lejonklou products. Even though my curiosity is piqued by what CF of HFC has to say, I turned on my computer today to see if this guy has written further about Boazu;

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... 0f1#p29836

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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by HansW »

HiFiCritic was waiting for me when I got home today so I immidietly read the Boazu/Gaio review. Very positive. Congratulations Fredrik. There is also a short interview.

Best regards

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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Charlie1 »

Congratulations Fredrik! That must be so rewarding after all your hard work. I'm really pleased for you.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you!

Just read it myself and feel very happy.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by beck »

lejonklou wrote:Thank you!

Just read it myself and feel very happy.
Job well done. Hifi Critic is the right place to be reviewed. I really like their Audio Excellence list.
Playing cd’s…………
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by MikeF »

Dear all,

I am the guy mentioned above by Ron and I can give you some impressions of the first 24 h with Boazu. Yesterday evening I converted the Ninkas back to passive and connected the Boazu ("Plopp") and started listening right away....

You could have guessed it. "Not smart. Bad idea. Such a looser." Lots of details gone (compared to active C61000), but during the first hour lots came back. I cannot let the system run continously with music, but it has been on at least since then. How long could it take to get the full performance? We listened yesterday evening, this morning, and this evening approx 1-1,5 h each.

Expectations based on this thread were extremely high, and they were so far partially met. To me and my ears, the Boazu is not to blow you away or impress you, but it is indeed very musical, for lack of a better word. So it is nothing that gripped me instantaneously, but rather with the time. It is not tiring (very important) to listen as has happened sometimes with my system since I swappped the Ninkas. Big plus. You always want to turn up the volume, but I did not get shouted at, but rather saw her dancing around. Good. I think things will get clearer within a few days especially finally when I change back to the C6100 to get the contrast.

How does it compare? Things are a bit more laid back, but then also exactly right, musical. Please take it with a lot of scepticism, I am not sure yet and have little experience, but I am tempted to say."If before all instruments were competing to get your attention, they are now all playing together as a band, springing to your attention only in the right moment, an effect like it has been added a conductor."

Voices are expressive, you connect, guitars are sweet, but what really profits most are drums and percussion, these really start to sound right and sing now. Rythm in general is great and toe tapping is fine. It may have to do with what Fredrik called "how the notes start and stop", and thus it seems logical that drums profit more. If anybody cares, I could speculate that Boazu is doing very well in the time domain by maintaining the phase between the different frequencies.

So far only one thing that I miss. Before, on the active system with Afekt subwoofer there were more notes at the lowest frequencies, that have now disappeared. In most cases it is fine, but e.g. on "trouble no more" from Muddy Waters (Chess) most notes of the bassline have disappeared. But they are the main tune in that song! Dumdum dumdum de dumdumdum. I love to hear clear bass notes (not boom resonances or overproductions) but clear crispy acoustic bass. It is not a fault of the Boazu, but the Ninkas passive simple seem to not reproduce them (well always better than to produce a messy boom). So I am very tempted to add the Afekt (which always has been running at the lowest cutoff) again. I could connect it to the second output of the DS (or spare input of Boazu, since the inputs are connected, I can use it as a copy of the input signal, right?), and then use the Kikkin to control volume of the Boazu/ninka and Kikkin/affekt in parallel by the same remote. Anybody has an opinion or advice on that?

more to come....
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Music Lover »

Is the Boazu allways on or do you turn it off?
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you for the update, MikeF!

I've been very curious about your findings when you try the Boazu. I really like the conductor metaphor.

Regarding the four inputs on each channel of the Boazu, they are inputs only. Nothing comes out of them. All that goes in is sent to volume and then to speakers, but nothing comes out.

There is really only one way you could use a sub with Boazu and that is to take the signal from the speaker outputs. This is called 'high level' and should in theory be worse than using line level (at least in my opinion), but for some reason I find that in practice it often works great and sometimes even better than using line level. Afekt does not have high level inputs, however, so this option doesn't work with your current sub.

Using Kikkin (with the signal taken from a second pair of outputs on your DS) works in theory but has a serious problem: Your Kikkin and Boazu will not keep in synch when adjusting the volume. They have a different speed when climbing up or down in volume, which you would quickly become aware of.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Charlie1 »

Kikkin is reverse phase. Just want to check, did you correct the phase when switching to Boazu? Also, are you using the Lejonklou mains lead?
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by grey17 »

lejonklou wrote: ...
There is really only one way you could use a sub with Boazu and that is to take the signal from the speaker outputs. This is called 'high level' and should in theory be worse than using line level (at least in my opinion), but for some reason I find that in practice it often works great and sometimes even better than using line level. Afekt does not have high level inputs, however, so this option doesn't work with your current sub.
...
Would you elaborate a bit further on how such a high level connection would be made on the Boazu? My understanding is the Boazu has two pairs of banana style inputs and doesn't support a spade connection. For example piggybacking a REL Neutrik to spade connection along with speaker connections isn't possible. If that is the case how is the high-level subwoofer connection made in parallel with the speaker connection? Or does that have to be a custom connection where both the subwoofer and speaker cable are soldered to a common banana plug? Is there an alternative to a custom approach?
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by MikeF »

a few more words...

first of all thanks to Fredrik for bringing (what I feel to be) more and better music to my live. By now I am quite sure that I prefer listening to the Boazu than to the C6100. It is more fun. But still I am also afraid of deceiving myself, and I will defintively go back once to see how it compares the other way round. So a big compliment, but one has to keep in mind, both, although very different concepts, are in a similar price range

Yesterday morning the stage of the Skiffle Sessions (Lonnie Donnegan, Van Morrision, Chris Barber) appeared in our living room. Today I played Dire Straits amongst others and "Brothers in arms" which I used to dismiss as too sweet, now sounded sympathic. Hi-hat (or whatever that is) sounding great.

Yes the Boazu is on all the time, just not playing any signal most of it. I do not get what it means that the phase of the Kikkin is reversed. The mains? I plugged it according to manual and the Boazu according to having the left connector of the female (centre up) on phase. Then both plugs coincides in the block, having the cables going out the same side.... . Or which phase do you mean? Signal?

Still I am very tempted to try the Afekt somehow, if only to evaluate how much it can still help or I will miss it. True it has only line level in, no speaker level. But according to manual, both Kikkin and Boazu do 1dB steps, so if I go in steps one by one could it work (rather than ramping fast)? Or is it 1db approx? I could readjust between them using the front buttons of the Boazu. Not very practical on the long run I agree, but for a test.... (also I did not manage to fix the DS level yet (could not enter into the IP), so I turn it by hand up to 80, then I can easily turn up the volume by remote of the Boazu, just going down is a mess, the remote turns both down and then have to turn up the DS on the tablet again.....)

Also I am very curiuos about the Lejonklou Streamer to come, is there already a tentative price range (to know if it is realistic for me)? And, if I am able to run the subwoofer from the second output of the DS, will the new streamer have two outputs as well? Sorry to be insisting, but once you know these notes are there, it is really nice to have them....
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

grey17 wrote:Would you elaborate a bit further on how such a high level connection would be made on the Boazu? My understanding is the Boazu has two pairs of banana style inputs and doesn't support a spade connection. For example piggybacking a REL Neutrik to spade connection along with speaker connections isn't possible. If that is the case how is the high-level subwoofer connection made in parallel with the speaker connection? Or does that have to be a custom connection where both the subwoofer and speaker cable are soldered to a common banana plug? Is there an alternative to a custom approach?
Hi grey17!

I just had a look at the REL connecting kits and you're correct in that they are not a direct fit to the Boazu. I would preferably solder the wires (without spades) together with the speaker cable to plugs and then connect them to Boazu. An alternative is to fit an adapter between Boazu and speaker cable, that allows the REL spades to be connected. Either there are already such around (for instance a banana plug that has a jack and a screw that can clamp a spade in the other end) or one could make them from parts.

I tried a bunch of spades a couple of years ago and found none that were really good. Then I chose the best sounding loudspeaker connector I could find for Tundra and Boazu. And that connector had no option for clamping spades or bare cable. Sorry about that. I tend to make uncompromising choices.

Please see my post further down regarding how to connect Boazu to a subwoofer using the speaker outputs!
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by ThomasOK »

You can indeed try out the subwoofer as you suggested using the Kikkin. It would be awfully fiddly for normal use but will let you get a feel for what the sub would bring to the party. It is indeed 1dB steps on both. In addition the Boazu pauses on every 10dB and the Kikkin changes color at every 10dB so you can easily get them both to 50 or 60 on the scale.

What is meant by the Kikkin inverting the phase is that the phase that comes out of the outputs is the reverse of what goes into the inputs. This is not that uncommon and was the case with several Linn preamps such as the Kairn. It has to do with the number of stages in the preamp. The recommended way to correct for this is to reverse the speaker cables connecting red to minus and black to plus. With the subwoofer you can use the settings on the back panel to reverse the phase.

Of course long term the ideal solution would be to get the Sagatun 1.3 preamp and Tundra 2.2 power amp. This way you would have two outputs to let you feed both the amp and the sub. You would also have an even more musical and more engaging sound. But the cost is a bit more than twice as much so maybe not an easy move.

On the streamer it is hard to say. Work is still progressing and although the foundation is finalized it currently lacks features, so the unit is not complete (based on an update I just received today). I know the hoped for pricing range but it could vary depending on how the design ends up. I definitely expect it to be a bargain for the performance it will offer, but also expect it will be the most expensive Lejonklou product so far, but hopefully not by a ton.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by ThomasOK »

lejonklou wrote:
grey17 wrote:Would you elaborate a bit further on how such a high level connection would be made on the Boazu? My understanding is the Boazu has two pairs of banana style inputs and doesn't support a spade connection. For example piggybacking a REL Neutrik to spade connection along with speaker connections isn't possible. If that is the case how is the high-level subwoofer connection made in parallel with the speaker connection? Or does that have to be a custom connection where both the subwoofer and speaker cable are soldered to a common banana plug? Is there an alternative to a custom approach?
Hi grey17!

I just had a look at the REL connecting kits and you're correct in that they are not a direct fit to the Boazu. I would preferably solder the wires (without spades) together with the speaker cable to plugs and then connect them to Boazu. An alternative is to fit an adapter between Boazu and speaker cable, that allows the REL spades to be connected. Either there are already such around (for instance a banana plug that has a jack and a screw that can clamp a spade in the other end) or one could make them from parts.

I tried a bunch of spades a couple of years ago and found none that were really good. Then I chose the best sounding loudspeaker connector I could find for Tundra and Boazu. And that connector had no option for clamping spades or bare cable. Sorry about that. I tend to make uncompromising choices.
Yep, solder the wires to the banana plugs going to the main speaker cables. Or better yet, wind all the wire together and solder it into the banana plug. In the US the REL subs used to come with no connectors on the other end of the Neutrik cable, just bare wire, so I have never seen a set that came with spades. Possibly a later development as we no longer carry REL. For a temp connection I have sometimes "cheated" and stuck the REL wire in the hole and plugged the banana plug in on top of it. But this is not something I would really recommend, especially long term, as it is not a good connection and could overly compress the banana plug.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

Thanks for reporting, MikeF!
MikeF wrote:I do not get what it means that the phase of the Kikkin is reversed.
What it means is that the signal phase is reversed. So that when Kikkin is used, the drive units on the loudspeaker go in when they should go out. And vice versa. The only reason behind this is that the circuitry got better that way, in that particular case. The same signal inversion was made by for instance old Linn preamps; LK1 and Kairn.

Listening to the music with inverted phase gives a slight reduction in quality. The solution is to swap all the + and - connections on the rear of the loudspeakers. So red (+) connectors go to black (-) inputs and vice versa. If you connect Kikkin to Afekt, you will need to enter the user settings on the rear of Afekt and set the phase to "inverted". Two inversions then; Kikkin turns the signal upside down and Afekt turns it back.
MikeF wrote:Still I am very tempted to try the Afekt somehow, if only to evaluate how much it can still help or I will miss it. True it has only line level in, no speaker level. But according to manual, both Kikkin and Boazu do 1dB steps, so if I go in steps one by one could it work (rather than ramping fast)?
Yes, if you go one step up or one step down at a time, it will work just fine. But if you press and hold a volume button, Kikkin will outrun Boazu when they pass a decade (40, 50, 60 etc), because Boazu makes a pause there.
MikeF wrote:(also I did not manage to fix the DS level yet (could not enter into the IP), so I turn it by hand up to 80, then I can easily turn up the volume by remote of the Boazu, just going down is a mess, the remote turns both down and then have to turn up the DS on the tablet again.....)
I recommend you do this, as I find that setting the level out to fixed improves the sound of the DS. Even though Linn claim it's identical to setting the volume to level 80, there is still a difference when I compare.

Maybe someone can help you sort out what the problem is? I don't really get it.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

Double instructions by Thomas and me! :oD
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

Regarding connecting a subwoofer to a Boazu using the speaker outputs to high level inputs, please note the following:

The black or blue wire that is 'Left -' should go to Left Red (+) on Boazu
The yellow wire that is 'Left +' should go to Left Black (-) on Boazu
The red wire that is 'Right +' should go to Right Black (-) on Boazu

The subwoofer should then be set to phase inverted.

It's really important that the above scheme is used or fatal damage can occur.

I just put it on the website's Boazu page (my sincere apologies for not having completed the text on the Boazu page): http://www.lejonklou.com/tips/how-to-co ... -to-boazu/
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by tokenbrit »

There a 2 ways to configure the DS': (assuming yours behaves similarly to mine)
1. Download & install Linn Konfig. If you're running a laptop or desktop with a recent version of Apple or Windows, then you should be good with the latest release of Konfig from linn.co.uk
2. Quicker is to open a browser and navigate to your DS - http://<IP address of your DS>/Ds/index.html As with Konfig, you'll need to be on the same network...

Either method brings up a similar interface. On the left side of the screen you should see:
About
Device
Display
Volume

Click on Volume, and you should be presented with Internal Volume Control, which you can set to Off by means of a selection box. This is functionally equivalent to setting the DS' volume to 80 but is usually a little more musical.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Charlie1 »

I used to own a Kikkin. When out of phase it would sound a bit muffled and music wouldn't flow so well. I can only assume the Boazu is similarly effected when connected out of phase, so important to get right so that you can make a fair comparison.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by MikeF »

many thanks to all for so much information.

I understand the phase inversion now and how to solve it by swapping speaker cables. This means my Kikkin was running on the 6100 in the wrong phase. I also noted that in active, the ninkas treble and bass have opposite phases, while in passive they are the same. So one of the active crossovers seem to do something similar...

I had only tried with the DS IP but without the /DS/index.html, many thanks for the reminder tokenbrit. I will try again when I am home.

Today I tried the subwoofer (phase inverted) and the feelings are mixed. Sure it adds some foundation, but maybe also some confusion. In the beginning I had the same gain (3 of 8) on it as with the C6100 and that was far too much, so I went down to 2 (the Linn poweramps seem to have more gain than the Boazu outputstage). According to manual, the steps of the afekt are 5 dB which seems rather coarse, so having a second independent preamp like the Kikkin in the middle in fact could help to tune the volume better. Taking about volume, well I realized my problem with seeing colours did not help, but I managed to get them nominally equal. Comparing from memory of the previous day, the music was best defined without the Sub anywhere close, only some tracks do profit from the Sub (where the bass is important, "Seven nation army"), but I never really got the crispiness in lowest bass of the ninka active. And to me a big suprise, when I switch off the Boazu, I can hear almost everything, but very muffled, from the Sub. Why can I hear some part of Muddy's voice over the sub? Is the cutoff to high frequencies not strict? Does the music feel mixed up because of high frequencies that should not be there ? Well I think I have to do a few more test to get a final opinion on that, but I would like to get it sounding right with the sub...

Probably it is a stupid question, but if I would go for a tundra now instead of the Boazu, violating hierachy and using the Kikkin, how much worse would that be? And how much better than the Boazu could I get by adding the Sagatun? Using separated poweramps, it is easier to upgrade later on (still got the LK tunebox, and I would need only two amps, in difference to the newer multidrive speakers), but I guess value for money the integrated is best. Getting harder than I thought two days ago.....
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