Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

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fatjulio
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by fatjulio »

Would I be correct in assuming the Boazu is a brand new unit? If so, it wouldn't be run in, so won't be at it's potential. One attribute of any piece of equipment that's not run in, is less bass than what it's capable of. This isn't particular to the Boazu, but to all pieces of audio equipment.

As far as the Afekt goes, I'd set the low pass to it's lowest setting so there's the least amount of overlap. And try the phase both ways. I run my K345 sub phase inverted (the preamp doesn't invert) and it gives the best result.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Charlie1 »

MikeF wrote:Probably it is a stupid question, but if I would go for a tundra now instead of the Boazu, violating hierachy and using the Kikkin, how much worse would that be? And how much better than the Boazu could I get by adding the Sagatun? Using separated poweramps, it is easier to upgrade later on (still got the LK tunebox, and I would need only two amps, in difference to the newer multidrive speakers), but I guess value for money the integrated is best. Getting harder than I thought two days ago.....
Why are you thinking about the Tundra? Is it because you want to keep with separate pre/power? If so then Sagatun makes more sense to me. If the think the Kikkin/6100 is good enough and good value then you'd be better off investing your funds in a source upgrade, but as already posted today, best to wait for the Boazu to run in. There is an expectation that an upgrade should be better straight out the box but I found this wasn't the case a few times, such as upgrade to Linto and also KK/1 upgrade several years ago. I think a couple of weeks was enough time to run in.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Music Lover »

Sagatun and later...Tundra is the way forward if funds allow.
Separates have many advantages outside performance, example flexibillity and easier to upgrade.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by tokenbrit »

Personally, I think it's a little ​premature​ to consider Tundra. First you should satisfy yourself with regard to preferences for digital volume control vs Kikkin, and then for active vs passive. The phase complicates matters but highlights that setup is critical to get the best out of any system.
System hierarchy would suggest volume control > pre-amp > power-amp, but source precedes those, as Charlie advised... Practicality should guide the shorter-term - comparing Kikkin to DVC, and Boazu to active. Tundra would only be the right approach now if it's consistent with longer term goals, proven by a preference for better quality passive vs active, IMO. And only once you've resolved the volume control preference. MajikDS - (Kikkin) - Tundra could be a step towards RenewDS - (Sagatun) - Tundra, but you need to get an idea where you want to take your system.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by MikeF »

Well thinking about it again, I think I just went a bit crazy the other day, over the top.

I am still very happy with the Boazu, without Sub (I am not sure but when I tested it, I "switched" it on and off by removing the power cable, while the Kikkin was still on the DS parallel with Boazu. And also without Sub it was worse, and I do not think in this occasion it was the passive membrane. But could the parallel connection of two preamps/amps at the DS create some crosstalk? In theory I guess no, but I suspect it made things a bit worse).

Anyway, I think the best for now is to be happy with Boazu and invest some more time, not money, in getting the environment right. I have at least several monthes to try a couple of options with the Sub etc..... and save the money for a source upgrade to come..... (Thomas when you say most expensive so far, do you mean like most expensive single unit or more expensive than a pair of mono units?).

So as last step I will go back to the C6100 this week at some pointjust to confirm that what I feel all the time is real.......

Many thanks to all of you for plenty of advice, discussion and ideas, I will try to be around as much as I can. And thanks and congratullations to Fredrik for building this nice piece of joy
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by ThomasOK »

That would be most expensive single unit.

My answer to your other question depends on your long term goals. If you want to end up with a a better source, Sagatun and Tundra to give you a really good system and the flexibility to use a sub then you might temporarily construct a system that isn't strictly source first. In this case you could certainly go with the Kikkin and Tundra and have a very good sounding system. The Kikkin is really a quite good preamp, although certainly not in the league of the Sagatun (nor likely the one in the Boazu). But with the Tundra it will still be very musical. Plus it would give you the ability to connect a sub using the pass through connectors on the amp. Then you could add the Sagatun later to bring it up another level.

I haven't tried it so I don't know, but the Kikkin and Tundra 2.2 might be quite close to the Boazu - maybe Fredrik could chime in on that one. I know that the Sagatun 1.1 (pre-Tarandus) and the Tundra 2.2 are definitely more musical than the Boazu with the Sagatun 1.3 being yet another step. Since you already own the Kikkin and the Tundra isn't a lot more than the Boazu it could be a better long term move, again depending on where you want to end up.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

Thanks for the update, MikeF!

Regarding connecting the source to both Kikkin and Boazu - yes, that should become a little worse. Not because of crosstalk, but because you load the output (technically it's only one output with dual connectors in parallel) of the DS source down. And although quantitatively that output surely can handle more load than Kikkin and Boazu, there is still some loss of quality. And when that loss is at the source, its impact becomes greater than for instance at a power amp.

Well spotted of you to notice that it does sort of "loose the edge" with two preamps connected!

I'm looking forward to your impressions when you revert to the original system! Regardless of the outcome and what you decide, this has been very rewarding for me to follow. You're the first that I know of to compare passive with a Boazu against aktiv with 6100 and sub. But probably not the last!
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Music Lover »

Always look forward. What is the long term goal.

My son has a Kikkin/Tundra combo (very good) and we have tested a few alternatives.
Kikkin is a STEAL!
It's truly a great pre but Sagatun is WAY better.
Kikkin/Tundra is fine as an interim, until he has saved up for a Sagatun.

So I would NOT recommend Kikkin/Tundra as a long term solution. Source first = Boazu is a better option on a tight budget, long term.

Boazu is fantastic.
Sagatun/Tundra is better.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by u252agz »

I agree with ML,

Boazu is a fantastic amp.

In my bedroom - it sounded unbelievably good with my KDS/2 and Komponent 110s. Does not leave one wanting for much more, and Boazu frees up funds for optimization of streamer, NAS and cables.

By the way - I clearly remember going from active NInkas ( LK 140s ) to passive Tundra 1.2, using AK/1 preamp - so much more musical and enjoyable. Did not feel I missed anything at all from the active system.

Good luck with the journey.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by MikeF »

fatjulio wrote:
Would I be correct in assuming the Boazu is a brand new unit? If so, it wouldn't be run in, so won't be at it's potential. One attribute of any piece of equipment that's not run in, is less bass than what it's capable of. This isn't particular to the Boazu, but to all pieces of audio equipment.
yes and no. It is on for two weeks now but only playing rom time to time, in average 1h per day. I have asked that in the beginning but so far there has been no estimation of how long it will take

fatjulio wrote: As far as the Afekt goes, I'd set the low pass to it's lowest setting so there's the least amount of overlap. And try the phase both ways. I run my K345 sub phase inverted (the preamp doesn't invert) and it gives the best result.
well it is and always has been in the lowest low pass setting. So unless the filter is broken, I do not get why there should higher frequency parts coming from the subwoofer (Simon and Garfunkel with acoustic guitar only, I guess that should have no content below 60Hz, but still something ( not much) is coming out. Is that normal?

lejonklou wrote:
Well spotted of you to notice that it does sort of "loose the edge" with two preamps connected!
I would be happy to accept that but I am not sure yet, maybe it is just a wrong impression. Also I noticed my ears work better in the morning than evening..... but as I said, I can check that in the next weeks/monthes without any more investment than time. And yes, "loosing the edge" is pretty much what my impression was ....
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by fatjulio »

MikeF wrote: yes and no. It is on for two weeks now but only playing rom time to time, in average 1h per day. I have asked that in the beginning but so far there has been no estimation of how long it will take
I think a couple hundred hours is when it's mostly there.
MikeF wrote: well it is and always has been in the lowest low pass setting. So unless the filter is broken, I do not get why there should higher frequency parts coming from the subwoofer (Simon and Garfunkel with acoustic guitar only, I guess that should have no content below 60Hz, but still something ( not much) is coming out. Is that normal?
Yes that is normal. It's a 2nd order filter in the Afekt, so 12db per octave. There's still some sounds coming out quite abit higher than the stated cross over point.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by tokenbrit »

That's typically 100hrs of play time rather than on time, isn't it?
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by fatjulio »

Yes
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by u252agz »

u252agz wrote:
When I send the monos for Tarandus upgrades I will put Boazu in their place and report back.
Whilst I was boxing up the Monos for the upgrades , I listened to Boazu with KDS/2 and Majik LP12 ( Kore Akito).

Compared to when I tried KDS/2 with Boazu and Komponent 110s in the bedroom this time, KDS was on a proper shelf as opposed to the floor and with Linn silvers and K200, compared to blacks and cheapo thin speaker cables and connectors.

Just Fantastic - So musical and enjoyable. Hard to believe one box of tricks can do this - and it just got better and better as it warmed up.

Maybe not quite the control on the bass of the Monos or as much detail perhaps; But in terms of musicality, engagement and enjoyability , it is right up there with the big boys.

On day two - it seemed even better.

I keep opening my cabinet and looking at this one unassuming box, surrounded by three empty shelves and marvelling at what Has been accomplished with this amplifier.

For the first time with amplifier upgrades - I am in no rush to get them back from HQ.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by MikeF »

after some time, I am back to report on my last short final test: swapping the Boazu (between the Majik DS and the passive Ninka) back for the C6100 three way active with Kikkin as volume control (respecting the inverted phase).

I got used to the Boazu during the last weeks, although only playing a little from time to time whenever I could. Getting used came with a certain feeling of "dissapointment" because I was expecting the same "whow" everytime, which is however natural to disappear when you get used to something, and thus unfair.

After going back active it still sounded good, no reason to complain, maybe a bit more pronounced in the bass. I listened around 15 tracks, mixed styles, and it also improved with time (was a cold start).

Ok and then the important question, if I will keep the Boazu. Thanks to Fredrik, the Boazu arrived to me without compromise and so I finally had to take the decision if I want to spend so much money (for me) on the new Amp.

Well the answer took like 5 seconds after reconnecting the Boazu again and it is YES. I always try to be sceptical with myself and what I think I am hearing (like trying to avoid placebos), but it is clearly makes the music much more enjoyable. The whow came back instantaneously with this direct comparison. The active mode has some good things (it seems you need less volume, it has a kind of loudness built in, it has more power in the bass, which sometimes is good and sometimes is not so good). But the Boazu is just presenting music better, independent of the song. Without knowing the market alternatives, still I think Fredrik deserves a congratulation for building this big little amp, which indeed is so much more enjoyable than the one alternative I know which is also not bad.

Other details that could be said in favor of Boazu: with the previous setup, I could not tell the difference between "full" CD quality on the NAS and certain material on Youtube (which is great to discover things), now there seems to be a difference. Next, even with three way active, the Afekt subwoofer was a clear improvement, but with the Boazu I still could not find a way to make that sound better than alone. But I will keep on trying this last one as the Ninkas are missing a few notes on the lower end, but how to get them properly integrated is still to be seen (or get other speakers).

Is the Boazu the best possible upgrade that I can get for that money? Maybe yes, I am not sure, but I am sure I do not want to miss this music anymore, so the decision is easy. And yes I am very curious about trying a possible source upgrade when it is ready.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you for the update, MikeF!

I'm really happy to hear that Boazu came out as the winner in this comparison with aktiv Linn amplification!

The review of Boazu and Gaio by Chris Frankland in HiFi Critic can now be read on my website: http://www.lejonklou.com/wp-content/upl ... Review.pdf
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Charlie1 »

Great review. You must be very pleased with that.
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by HIDDENSYSTEMS »

Charlie1 wrote:Great review. You must be very pleased with that.
:-))
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by ThomasOK »

It is quite a good review - I am very happy to see it. When a review of a couple of products starts out "What separates a great designer from an average one?" you know you are in for a treat. It is very cool to see someone with as much credibility as Chris Frankland calling Fredrik a great designer - something which I think we all feel. It would have been interesting to know what the other products he compared the Boazu to, but other than that I really couldn't have asked for more. I think we'll find the next review equally enjoyable.

In the vein of a great designer, I have always felt that another mark of one is never making an update that is musically a step backward. I note that some companies who I felt were in that camp have unfortunately made steps backwards, in some cases several. But every upgrade that Fredrik has made to any of his products have been steps forward and generally significantly so. As an example I just received a report from a customer who picked up his Tarandus upgraded stereo Sagatun and Tundra units a week and a half ago. He has owned a number of electronics that have had upgrades over time some of which were quite expensive. He told me that none of the upgrades he has had done before come close to the impressive musical improvement that the Tarandus upgrades brought to his system. He is now even more impressed with the work Fredrik has done.

So, Fredrik, a big pat on the back! Well deserved!
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you Charlie, Chris and Thomas!

I sure need that pat on the back right now, because I'm deep down in a digital rabbit hole...
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by Erik »

Just imagine the feeling when you get up from that hole and see the light! Keep up.

/Erik
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by COMSTEDT »

Congratulations! Great Review!

Now if you just could get some resellers in Norway too. ; )

Best regards from Oslo,
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by beck »

Congratulation on a fine review.

There is something weird about it though. The last section before "Conclusions" ends very abruptly only mentioning one track (Clapton) stating "I first spun.....". I think you should ask if something is missing!

About the digital rabbit hole: There was a good reason why Ivor waited so long. I think you will have a hard time reaching the level of music reproduction you set out to reach. Best of luck!
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you all for the congratulations!

I have finally updated the Boazu page with relevant text and information. I must have set a new personal record for the time span between product release and updated website!

beck: Sorry, I couldn't find the error you described. I figured it might be due to the browser you were using not displaying the pages of the review correctly?
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Re: Lejonklou Boazu Integrated Amp

Post by mmitch999 »

My system Majik ds exotic pre 2 lk140 aktiv ninka

Will the Boazu be a big improvement to my system.......let me know what you think......maybe source first.....with no way to demo this amp living in N Ireland your views on this matter will be important in my decision making.....The cost is important so keep any changes to my system at a sensible level....
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