Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by Music Lover »

Agree, you can't play louder with Tundra Monos - but according to my experience (compared in my system 5 weeks ago) they seems a lot more powerful than Tundra Stereo.
Likely due to the Monos being more dynamic and more agile.

Btw
It's rather wierd how much better the monos are over the stereos, both on the pre and power amp side.
Ok, at twice the price you should not expect anything else...
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by tokenbrit »

Music Lover wrote:Agree, you can't play louder with Tundra Monos - but according to my experience (compared in my system 5 weeks ago) they seems a lot more powerful than Tundra Stereo.
Likely due to the Monos being more dynamic and more agile.
I haven't compared Tundra Stereo with Monos since getting my Monos upgraded to 2.0 - wouldn't be fair since my Stereo is still 1.x... Maybe the difference is greater with the 2A version(s)
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by Music Lover »

It was Mono2 vs Stereo2.
But I also have Mono2A's, going to test later this week due to a road trip with my family currently.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by magnuska »

Thanks everybody for your thoughts and experiences in this matter. And also special thanks to ML for your invitation. Much appreciated, we will see how and if this could be.
I am based in Habo outside Jönköping so its not that far.

It would surely be interesting to hear the JBL;s in play. I took some time yesterday reading a bit more about it and looking at some youtube clip. Its a big speaker and the fact it must be hard for the missus to accept its major appearance in the living area. I am open to changes when it comes to improving my hifi but this one is a harder one I guess. And the fact is that Klånge sounds very good too with the reference filter so its a tough one..
I understand Fredrik is selling this too for around 11000:- a piece. Is this price complete with external crossover and or needed tweaks? Then I guess the stand that linnofil provides will set you back also - don`t know how much.
Well its an interesting speaker BUT will that really work in my narrow listening area see earlier picture in this thread. If the speakers will end up almost in the corners with 15 inch woofers - how will the sound be then?
Boomy?

When it comes to amplification I will try to combine my old Teddy pardo amp monoblocks with Sagatun. One interim solution could be reusing my monoblocks and add a new Sagatun Mono? Shall see how it works first just to see .
I can imagine that when playing louder ( i have not played louder than the dark green, never at yellow) it can get a little harsh at times but maybe more so when the amp is a littel cold. A mono Sagatun with a cleaner signal should help to play a bit louder and cleaner. Am I wrong?

Regards Magnus
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by lejonklou »

Hi!
Just a few thoughts:

* I think the Klångedang T1:s are fantastic. And I haven't yet heard the reference filters! Must do that soon, as a I'm keeping my pair.

* JBL 3677 are fantastic too. They are in some important ways superior to T1's, but not in every way. They are not really fullrange - if one considers that important. T1's actually have more bass.

* My power amps are designed to perform optimally all the way until clipping. I did experiment with "soft clipping" and ways to soften the border between fully in control and full stop. But it only made the amps sound weaker. Now they sound powerful and in perfect control all the way into yellow-orange. When the limit is passed, you will hear it. Then just lower one notch.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by magnuska »

lejonklou wrote:Hi!
Just a few thoughts:

* I think the Klångedang T1:s are fantastic. And I haven't yet heard the reference filters! Must do that soon, as a I'm keeping my pair.

* JBL 3677 are fantastic too. They are in some important ways superior to T1's, but not in every way. They are not really fullrange - if one considers that important. T1's actually have more bass.

* My power amps are designed to perform optimally all the way until clipping. I did experiment with "soft clipping" and ways to soften the border between fully in control and full stop. But it only made the amps sound weaker. Now they sound powerful and in perfect control all the way into yellow-orange. When the limit is passed, you will hear it. Then just lower one notch.
Thanks for the explanation. Have not passed the green colour yet but then it feels good to know that its not the amp that loose control first.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by Music Lover »

Regarding your concern about "boomy bass", my room is 16m2 and no issue at all.
3677 manage bass with good controll.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by magnuska »

Have now listened to Sagatun with Teddy pardo monos. It actually sounds really good. So my thinking that this could work well as an interim solution could be quite ok for the future too. The sagatun makes the Teddys sound quicker than before and more detailed. Which is better then, Sagatun with Tundra stereo or Teddy monos? I would say the monos is a little better for me at present. So one solution is to buy the Sagatun monos and there will be a step up in performance again and hold the poweramp purchase.

ML- the JBL is not an option at the moment.

Regards Magnus
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by lejonklou »

What about the music? Which amp plays music in a way that moves you, that makes you continue listening? That makes you understand a song you have previously disregarded?

I honestly don't care one cent about quicker or more detailed.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by magnuska »

At present its the Teddy poweramp that moves me most. That brand is also very musical.

I think that Sagatun among different fine qualities sounds quicker and more detailed compared to my Teddy pardo Preamp and this effect is heard now through the system. I don`t care either about such a generic words but I guess It was a way of explaining things. When music is presented without myself thinking of the system or what sound is playing - its hard to explain. If it sounds right its good, bad explanation I know and probably not approved according to tunedem.

I will switch back to Tundra again for further tests.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by lejonklou »

magnuska wrote:At present its the Teddy poweramp that moves me most. That brand is also very musical.
In that case, they're better. Case closed. You get used to almost any sound, it's not important after a week or two. But if the music moves you, that's a quality that lasts forever.

I suspect, however, that you're listening to differences in sound, not in musicality. Why? Because of the words you use to describe them.

Take a guitar, for instance, and notice how it sounds different with different amps. You can not only compare the sound on an analytical level, but also FEEL a difference. Because the sound of a guitar can move us emotionally. We have a relation to most instruments.

And here the HiFi enthusiasts divide themselves up in two schools. One say that it's important that the guitar sounds natural, exactly the way it did when it was recorded. And the others say that we don't really know how it sounded, the important thing is that it FEELS right. A subjectivist standpoint. Both the naturalists (their favorite word is 'transparency') and the subjectivists can agree that amplifier A has more detail and B sounds thicker. Then they can discuss which one is better and why.

The Tune Method does something completely different. It ignores the guitar and focuses on the guitarist. What is the guitarist saying with his/her playing? Which is the difference between amp A and B not in sound but in what the guitarist is expressing? Please note that it takes a conscious effort to ignore the guitar and go one step beyond. That's why we use various tricks, like:

1. Go to the next room and listen from there. The sounds are now more distant and less detailed. This helps to undo the analytical listening. Now, what is the guitarist expressing?

2. Play tracks you have never heard before. Focus on trying to understand them musically: What are they expressing? How well do the musicians perform and how do they succeed in their expression?

One can combine 1 and 2. And when one suddenly "gets it" - uses the Tune Method and hears the musical message - the differences can appear shockingly big. I've often experienced people bursting out in laughter. And when I ask why, they say "with A the song is really sad (or happy/nostalgic/serene/intense/etc.) and then with B, it felt like they were almost making a parody of it!"
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by David Neel »

lejonklou wrote:You get used to almost any sound, it's not important after a week or two. But if the music moves you, that's a quality that lasts forever.
Just this! And it doesn't have to take that long - in my experience the sound is unimportant after a few minutes.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by Charlie1 »

David Neel wrote:
lejonklou wrote:You get used to almost any sound, it's not important after a week or two. But if the music moves you, that's a quality that lasts forever.
Just this! And it doesn't have to take that long - in my experience the sound is unimportant after a few minutes.
I had a nice experience just this week, playing an LP I've not listened to in a few years and getting the compounded musical benefit of more than one upgrade and various setup improvements. Wow, I love that album! Actually, cos I'd not played it at all I also noticed some of the sonic benefits as well, but anyway, that's not the point of my post - I'm trying to agree that in the whole the sonic benefits quickly fade :)

The other real lasting improvement is it can open the door to new music that was difficult or plain un-enjoyable prior to the upgrade. There's been times when many modern untuneful recordings have been uninspiring to say the least so getting over that boundary has opened up a wide range of new music. Some of that was setup issues though.

Talking of setup Magnus, have you tried tweaking the speaker position with the Monos? This can be one of the big 'blockers' stopping the music coming across at it's best. I'm sure you know this but if you're like me, I forgot just what a difference it can make and also get a bit lazy and convince myself I don't need to bother.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by Ozzzy189 »

Ozzzy189 wrote:Congratulations, that's a good combination of Freddie boxes for your listening pleasure! Are you using the sagatun monos? That's an unbelievably good pre. The stereo is good and I was a little bit nervous about upgrading but monos are a revelation imo.
You might need to re position the speakers too as any changes in equipment can bring new things to the table.
Already suggested this Charlie but I'm not sure if the op has.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by Charlie1 »

Ozzzy189 wrote:Already suggested this Charlie but I'm not sure if the op has.
Ah, sorry, forgot you had said that.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by magnuska »

Charlie1 wrote:
Ozzzy189 wrote:Already suggested this Charlie but I'm not sure if the op has.
Ah, sorry, forgot you had said that.
Hello boys. Yes I have repositioned speakers a bit but even that needs more time to evaluate. Maybe they are positioned to far out from the wall?

When it comes to the testing further of the amps I switched back to Tundra today. I also changed interconnect to a Linn Silver. This cable change was obviously very important as they are now playing more music and moves me like I hoped from the beginning.

So apoligies to Fredrik if I jumped conclusions.

Regards Magnus
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by lejonklou »

No need for apologies, Magnus. It's your system!
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by u252agz »

Magnuska

Although it must be really enjoyable to do all these comparisions - once your installation is optimised with cables/ speaker position etc I think you will soon accept the inevitable, and begin to order the Lejonklou boxes, one to four - depending on budget.

Then the fun will really start, as you go through your music collection and more.

Each time you get closer to box number four - your smile will broaden and your body will relax more.

Enjoy the ride.
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by Music Lover »

Magnus, please use the same silver IC's with the Teddy amp and report back.
Better than silvers&Tundra or not?
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Re: Tundra 2A and Sagatun 1.1 - homeloan at last

Post by magnuska »

Music Lover wrote:Magnus, please use the same silver IC's with the Teddy amp and report back.
Better than silvers&Tundra or not?
The comparision was made with the same cable - Linn silver.

/Magnus
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