Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by ThomasOK »

OK, so now that I have gotten back home and had a little down time I should cover the RMAF show a bit. Fredrik and I spent all day Thursday setting up the system you have seen in the photos. My fully loaded LP12 (Radikal, Keel, Ekos SE, Kandid, Urika, Woodsong Movingui plinth) on a NOKTable, which we both agreed to be a little more musical than the Mimer K. Either Boazu or Sagatun Mono 1.1s into Tundra Mono 2.0As into the JBL 3677s on Ofil x677 v2 stands. All electronics were on Harmoni racks with the Radikal on a Mimer K, the Boazu on a Mimer 3.3? and the rest on Tors. Interconnects were Linn Silvers with unslotted RCAs and the speaker cables were 2.48M K400/Knekt bananas to the speakers and split 1M K400 to the crossover boxes. We did a lot of experimenting with the positioning of the speakers, the racks and the turntable stand until we got a sound we were both pleased with as you can see in the Instagram video.

I know Fredrik doesn’t like to comment on how his gear sounds and I could be accused of bias as I’m the importer. But I’m going to comment anyway. The sound in the room was really, really good. We had a number of people commenting that we were making the most musical sound at the show and you could see that a number of people were definitely getting caught up in the music. We also received lots of comment about having the best musical taste of the show. Comments such as: “Finally some real music.” “So glad you aren’t playing the same boring stuff everybody at these shows plays.” “Steven Wilson! I never expected to see that at a Hi-Fi show, can I listen to some?” “Wow, you’ve got Amy Winehouse, can you play the first track on side one?” were plentiful. I brought over a hundred records spanning everything from Beethoven and Holst to Loreena McKennitt to Steely Dan, Cream, Jimi Hendrix, Jethro Tull, King Crimson and Miles Davis, Oliver Nelson, Jack Johnson, Nine Inch Nails, etc. We let people look through the records and pick their own choice if they wanted and everybody found something they really wanted to hear.

Now to more specifics. The Boazu is exceptional! Fredrik has nicknamed it “Trouble” because it is too good compared to the stereo separates. The feeling is that the Boazu is more musically exciting than the Sagatun stereo and Tundra 2 stereo. We did not do this comparison but I can easily believe it. However, the Tarandus upgrades will redress this temporary imbalance.

What we mainly did during the show, besides just playing a bunch of good music, was to compare the Boazu to the Sagatun Mono 1.1 and Tundra Mono 2.0A combination. Once everything warmed up it was clear to almost everybody that the Monos were musically superior: more in control, more effortless, allowing you to hear deeper into the playing of the instruments and get more thoroughly into the music. However, it was also clear that the Boazu was awfully close for a little more than one-fifth the price and that it had a very engaging, exciting sound that definitely got you caught up in the music. This integrated amp is a real winner and should bring many new converts to the musicality of Lejonklou equipment. Bravo Fredrik!

All the equipment operated without a hiccup the entire show making it a pleasure to host the room. Unlike last time I did this show in 2014 we also received a lot of press attention with some press people being quite impressed and even overwhelmed by the musicality of the room. I’m not going to talk about names here as they need to weigh in for themselves but I expect more blogs than the first two posted so far to say nice things about us and likely some reviews forthcoming in 2016 and 2017.

Another thing that worked exactly as I wished were the speakers. Although I had wanted to dress up the speakers as you see in the photos for my own system, I also burned the midnight oil getting them done in time for the show as I really wanted that look there. Why? Because most of the people coming into the room had a similar reaction: “What the heck are those speakers?” In a show like this anything that gets you attention is a good thing and they definitely got us attention both for their excellent musicality and for their unconventional looks. People, of course, were mostly rather surprised that these were JBLs and even more so that they run under $2000 a pair. I have most likely sold three or four pair to people who came through the room! I will talk more about what I did in the 3677 thread but there was no question that the 3677s on the Ofil x677 stands held up their part. I expect Linnofil might see a couple more stand orders from this as well as we did talk up the stands too.

The NOKTable also got some good notice with it also being displayed in one of the shows’ system rooms and garnering praise from the people who used it. Many people coming into our room asked about it and LP12 owners were very interested. It appears that I already have one or two distributors in other countries so I may have to crank up production soon.

So the show was a big success in contrast to the one in 2014. If everything goes as was indicated I think it will bring much more attention to Lejonklou HiFi and Nokturne Audio as will the Gaio review when Michael gets it out. Fredrik was very happy and is already talking about doing it again and I was extremely pleased as well. It was also interesting to note that three different people flew out to Denver just to hear our room so we obviously have some loyal fans. In context with that I met Handoku, Lejonklou sales agent in Indonesia, along with his wife and daughter. They were charming and Handoku and I hit it off right away having surprisingly similar musical taste from King Crimson and Steven Wilson to Miles Davis and Herbie Hancock to name a few. He is a really nice guy and will be selling the Noktable in Indonesia.

So great equipment, great music, great sound, excellent food, new friends and a really positive show. If I hadn’t had a cold the whole time it would have been perfect. But some medicine kept the symptoms at bay and it didn’t dampen my spirits considering the good company and positive vibes from most coming into our room. Onward and upward!
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by Tony Tune-age »

lejonklou wrote:
Ozzzy189 wrote:Some really bizarre comments. 'I really wouldn't recommend these speakers for high end audio'.
OK then, why not?
Simple: They don't sound polite. There's no 3D soundstage and no sense of a high resolution sweet treble. They rather sound like when you sit right in front of the stage at a live concert. They're in your face, sometimes a bit shouty, always delivering dynamics in a realistic way.

That isn't High End. Then again I don't think I have ever cared for anything labeled High End.
Are these comments pertaining to the JBL 3677 speakers?
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by macrotech2 »

Great news about the Tarandus upgrades! More details please. How much and does it require a return to Base?
Last edited by macrotech2 on 2016-10-14 10:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by u252agz »

ThomasOK wrote:
Now to more specifics. The Boazu is exceptional! Fredrik has nicknamed it “Trouble” because it is too good compared to the stereo separates.
Thanks for the review - sounds like a productive and enjoyable few days in Denver.

The Boazu sounds amazing for an integrated amp at its price point and might be just what I need to partner my sneaky and komponent 110s.

My recollection of the sneaky with the four Monos/ 242s ( which I tried whilst KDS was being uprgraded to v 2 ) is that it sounds unbelievably good for Linns entry point streamer. When stripped of its Digital Volume Control and amplifier components, and partnered with a quality analogue preamp and amplifier, the DAC itself in my opinion, can produce some very enjoyable music.

If the Boazu can even be compared with the Sagatun and Tundra Monos, that is quite some achievment.

Seems like Fredrik is on a roll.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by lejonklou »

Tony Tune-age wrote:
lejonklou wrote:
Ozzzy189 wrote:Some really bizarre comments. 'I really wouldn't recommend these speakers for high end audio'.
OK then, why not?
Simple: They don't sound polite. There's no 3D soundstage and no sense of a high resolution sweet treble. They rather sound like when you sit right in front of the stage at a live concert. They're in your face, sometimes a bit shouty, always delivering dynamics in a realistic way.

That isn't High End. Then again I don't think I have ever cared for anything labeled High End.
Are these comments pertaining to the JBL 3677 speakers?
Yes!
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by ThomasOK »

Nice to see yet another writeup and photo. Brent also did a little writeup on the NOKTable on the previous page of their RMAF 2016 coverage. I have posted a link on the NOKTable thread.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by ThomasOK »

Here are a couple of photos from the show. The first Fredrik and myself and the second with Handoko. Notice the much-discussed cowboy boots.

Image

Image

In all the busyness of breaking down the show I forgot to take a photo of Fredrik and myself in front of the system as I had intended. Thankfully Handoko and family came to the rescue and his daughter took the photos you see here in the lobby.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by beck »

Great fotos. It has been a plessure for me to follow your efforts at the show via this forum and elsewhere. I am glad it turned out to be a succes. All the best from me to all of you. Regards
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by Music Lover »

The 100Wpc class-AB amp uses a copper heatsink,
Is this is a misunderstanding or what?
It's all about musical understanding!
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by lejonklou »

Music Lover wrote:
The 100Wpc class-AB amp uses a copper heatsink,
Is this is a misunderstanding or what?
Yes, 100 Watts per channel must be a misunderstanding. Power specifications are the same as Tundra.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by Tony Tune-age »

Ozzzy189 wrote:Some really bizarre comments. 'I really wouldn't recommend these speakers for high end audio'.
Lejonklou wrote: They don't sound polite. There's no 3D soundstage and no sense of a high resolution sweet treble. They rather sound like when you sit right in front of the stage at a live concert. They're in your face, sometimes a bit shouty, always delivering dynamics in a realistic way.
After talking with Thomas I now understand these comments. At first I thought the comments were against the JBL speakers, which didn't make sense considering the number of people that like how they sound.

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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by lejonklou »

Tony Tune-age wrote:
Ozzzy189 wrote:Some really bizarre comments. 'I really wouldn't recommend these speakers for high end audio'.
Lejonklou wrote: They don't sound polite. There's no 3D soundstage and no sense of a high resolution sweet treble. They rather sound like when you sit right in front of the stage at a live concert. They're in your face, sometimes a bit shouty, always delivering dynamics in a realistic way.
After talking with Thomas I now understand these comments. At first I thought the comments were against the JBL speakers, which didn't make sense considering the number of people that like how they sound.
I already answered Yes to your question above.

Of course I'm commenting JBL 3677, what else? Against? Well, that depends on your preferences. These are not audiophile speakers! But musical they certainly are.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by Music Lover »

lejonklou wrote:
Tony Tune-age wrote:
Ozzzy189 wrote:Some really bizarre comments. 'I really wouldn't recommend these speakers for high end audio'.
Lejonklou wrote: They don't sound polite. There's no 3D soundstage and no sense of a high resolution sweet treble. They rather sound like when you sit right in front of the stage at a live concert. They're in your face, sometimes a bit shouty, always delivering dynamics in a realistic way.
After talking with Thomas I now understand these comments. At first I thought the comments were against the JBL speakers, which didn't make sense considering the number of people that like how they sound.
I already answered Yes to your question above.

Of course I'm commenting JBL 3677, what else? Against? Well, that depends on your preferences. These are not audiophile speakers! But musical they certainly are.
Not speakers for high end audio?
Not audiophile speakers?

I find these comments kind of strange.
3677 on Ofil stands are one of the most revealing speakers I ever heard. Even the tiniest tweak is heard. The resolution is magical. The power of "source first" is VERY easy to demonstrate.
They are also one of the most dynamic and lifelike speakers I ever heard. Like having a live gig in the room. The "being there"-feeling is top notch.

Its true that they are VERY weak on 3D (more or less only 2D like a projector screen), but with the 4645C the depth in soundstage suddenly increases. But even with the sub, they are far behind the best. (best 3D I heard is with Komri)
And, they are a bit shouty in the treble, but again, with a sub that is almost 100% addressed.
We should remember, they are designed to be partnered with a sub.

Honestly, I have a hard time finding a speaker that offer a better total package. (even taking musicality out of the equations)
T1 is very very good but lack dynamics and live feeling imho.

tbh, if the 3677 had 20 times the price, an exotic "high end" design and delivered by an established high end speaker company, I bet they would have received highly praise.
But now, people just look at them and draw the conclusion: "Low priced JBL for movie theatre" = rubbish.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by ThomasOK »

Well, we've received our coverage from Stereophile. While it isn't all that could be hoped for there is still the adage: "all publicity is good publicity". We obviously didn't come off as one of the rooms he thought sounded bad as he had mentioned elsewhere and we did get some coverage so I'm pleased we got noticed. Interesting that one criticism of the speakers was that they were too smooth. I think the recording mentioned might have had something to do with that impression. Here is the link:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/rmaf ... 7OvqR7M.97
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by DelNaja »

ThomasOK wrote:Well, we've received our coverage from Stereophile. While it isn't all that could be hoped for there is still the adage: "all publicity is good publicity". We obviously didn't come off as one of the rooms he thought sounded bad as he had mentioned elsewhere and we did get some coverage so I'm pleased we got noticed. Interesting that one criticism of the speakers was that they were too smooth. I think the recording mentioned might have had something to do with that impression. Here is the link:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/rmaf ... 7OvqR7M.97
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by Tony Tune-age »

Interesting read, thanks for posting the link Thomas. Those JBL speakers are certainly getting lots of opinions.

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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by matthias »

Thomas,
do the grilles and the lacquer of your 3677s change the sound in comparison to stock 3677s?
Thanks

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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by lejonklou »

DelNaja wrote:"This ride did not bring me home to Jesus."
Cracked me up! :-D
Me too! 8oD

Funny how he thinks they were too smooth, while my main criticism is the opposite. Every other room I heard at RMAF was smoother! And most of them also terribly boring.

DeVore Orangutans were the second best speakers I heard. Also high efficiency, two way constructions.
matthias wrote:Thomas,
do the grilles and the lacquer of your 3677s change the sound in comparison to stock 3677s?
I heard the grilles on and of numerous times. They had very little effect.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by ThomasOK »

A couple of comments. It is nice to see the Fremer write up. I didn't expect a comment on the sound as he was in and out too fast. But he obviously likes the Gaio and was happy to meet Fredrik. It is also good to see the mention of the NOKTable. So far that is five write ups on the Lejonklou gear and Nokturne Audio and two on the NOKTable so we certainly got noticed, which is what the show is all about.

I agree with Fredrik that it is counter to my listening to consider the speakers too smooth and there was indeed some other equipment there that I found boring or bloated or both. However, the recording we were playing then is all analog and it is pretty laid back and smooth so I think it is more likely it was the culprit. A little of the Steely Dan record we were playing earlier might have given the attack he felt was missing.

Overall I do also agree with pretty much everything Music Lover said about the JBLs. I haven't used the sub as long as he has so I can't comment on how it improves the 3677s except to say it does. While I know what Fredrik means about the ability of the speakers to be shouty I have rarely had a problem with that on my system. How much of that is having the subwoofer and how much is having the crossovers external, which I don't believe Fredrik has done yet, I can't say. But it seems a rare thing in my system.

I also think there is something to some people pre-judging the JBLs as a cheap theater speaker that can't be any good. Honestly I thought the same thing when I first looked them up, and I still think they are one of the mostly unlikely speakers I have ever seen to sound good. But in my over 45 years in this hobby and 38+ in the business I have learned that it is only what you hear that is important. If torques work I use them, if ATC is better than Isobariks I buy them, if Lejonklou outperforms Linn I buy them and when cheap JBLs beat up on my ATCs I bought them. You just have to put your prejudices aside and go with what you hear. Some people have a hard time doing this. But it is this kind of accepting what you hear and listening for what really serves the music that makes Lejonklou equipment so good and made our room really quite musical. So much so that I found myself really getting into some tracks of that Steely Dan record that I found boring on my older system. Isn't that really what this is all about?
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by ThomasOK »

I forgot to mention, as Fredrik said the grills make little difference to the sound. They might make them a touch smoother, and I mean a touch, but that's about it. Maybe we should have played them without the grills for Mr. Serinus. ;-) One of the ideas in the design of the grill is that it is thin enough that the woofer basket sticks forward of the grill. Because of this, and the fact the tweeter is horn loaded, I don't believe there should be any significant diffraction effects.

I can't say for sure about any effect front the vinyl wrap bit it is a wrap and not a lacquer. Since it is very thin, thinner than a sheet of paper, and the speaker is already wrapped in vinyl, I expect any difference would be minimal. But in getting everything ready for the show I didn't have time to compare a wrapped one vs. one that wasn't. It would be a good thing for someone else to try if they like the look.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by tokenbrit »

ThomasOK wrote: .. it is counter to my listening to consider the speakers too smooth... the recording we were playing then is all analog and it is pretty laid back and smooth so I think it is more likely it was the culprit. A little of the Steely Dan record we were playing earlier might have given the attack he felt was missing.
Sad that representatives of a magazine with the reputation (?) & circulation of Stereophile should judge on what was obviously just a passing listen. At least Michael Fremer admitted that he didn't get to listen due to time pressure & reported rather than judged - kudos.
Can only hope that Stereophile will give a fair audition to Fredrik's finest, in time, but fear that the typical requirement of taking out ad space in such mags to receive consideration means I won't hold my breath, or take out a subscription.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by sunbeamgls »

These different views on the JBLs just reinforce one thing for me.
There is general concensus on the parameters that go to make up a good speaker. However, everyone's relative priority for those parameters seems to be different. So for one person, a speaker that does dynamics brilliantly and everything else adequately will be the 'best' but only for those who put dynamics top of their personal list. For some, vocals that are even a little bit shouty from time to time will mean they're crossed off the list.
My 'best' is not your 'best' is not person x's 'best'. Hence, as ever, reviews, blogs and forums are good pointers, but not good decision making tools.
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Re: Lejonklou at RMAF 2016 (Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

Post by lejonklou »

In my opinion, the most personal and subjective choice in the world of HiFi is the choice of loudspeaker. It is also the choice that has the least impact on musicality; together with the room, it is last in the chain that starts where the music is made and ends in our ears.

Therefore I think that it is in the choice of loudspeakers where our personal sound preferences (how much low bass, how much dynamics and slam, how loud we want to play, tradeoffs between quality and quantity etc etc.) should weigh in the most.

The further we get in the other direction, the source, the easier it is to agree on objective musical qualities.
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