Thoughts around a Lejonklou Streamer

Discussion, questions and suggestions about Lejonklou products

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by rowlandhills » 2016-02-27 16:23

Azazello wrote:Split the discussion about my moderation to another thread.
Apologies for the slight off topic given the split thread, but the formatting of this did make me laugh! :-)
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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by lejonklou » 2016-02-27 16:48

matthias wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:I was wondering if Lejonklou is investigating MQA and do you have any thoughts about it? I know little about it but it is starting to get talked up as the next big format.
MQA, the next big format?

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-ge ... ces-27127/

Matt
I heard MQA on the HiFi show High End in Stockholm last weekend. It sounded OK on an expensive Meridian system. No comparisons were made with regular files, although I had explained before the demo to the Meridian rep about my professional interest in how it actually performs AND repeatedly asked for a comparison during the demo. The answer was "It won't be a fair comparison because regular files vary in performance bla bla bla", to which I asked if we could please have a quick UNfair comparison? No, we couldn't. Which was ridiculous because the songs he played were famous and could be streamed from Tidal in an instant, to that Meridian streamer he was using.

After this disappointment, I read some more about MQA on the web and couldn't find a single person reporting about the musical benefits of the format after having done a comparison. So apparently their strategy is to avoid comparisons as far as possible. Seems serious, doesn't it?

The fact that I signed up for more information for manufacturers on the MQA website and never heard back from them doesn't really bother me. But that they actively avoid comparisons really does.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by ThomasOK » 2016-02-27 20:14

Matt, notice I said talked up, I have no experience with it at all.

Fredrik, that is rather disappointing. I see in the linked Computer Audiophile thread that one of the first posts was someone else who complained of Meridian not doing comparisons of the difference between MQA files and normal files. Seems to be the corporate way. Does tend to make you wonder what they have to hide.

I had a similar problem listening to Raidho speakers a couple of years ago. They played about four pieces and it occurred to me that none of them had any highs. I asked the person putting on the demo, who I know, if we could listen to something that had cymbals in it. He just said: "There is that." got up and walked away to talk to someone else. Guess cymbals weren't a good idea!
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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-02-27 21:02

ThomasOK wrote:Matt, notice I said talked up, I have no experience with it at all.
Thomas, sorry, no offense intended, but after reading the pages on the CA forum I was fed up with MQA. I have to say I do like neither the technology nor the philosophy behind it. MQA is not lossless like FLAC or ALAC and Fredrik would have to pay a lot of money for a MQA licensed streamer.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by hcl » 2016-04-10 11:47

matthias wrote:Thomas, sorry, no offense intended, but after reading the pages on the CA forum I was fed up with MQA. I have to say I do like neither the technology nor the philosophy behind it. MQA is not lossless like FLAC or ALAC and Fredrik would have to pay a lot of money for a MQA licensed streamer.
If MQA can compete with up to 24/192 just using the bandwidth of 24/48 FLAC makes it interesting. What they do seem to be hidden, or maybe I have not searched enough? As Fredrik stated it seem to sound ok, but I have only heard it using a Meridian USB-DAC connected to the PC. Not the most ultimate test... My impression is that it kind of sharpen the sound, but without degrading the information. Impressive accomplishment if it works generally.

We plan to investigate this further and maybe even release music on MQA.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-04-10 16:57

hcl wrote: If MQA can compete with up to 24/192 just using the bandwidth of 24/48 FLAC makes it interesting. What they do seem to be hidden, or maybe I have not searched enough? As Fredrik stated it seem to sound ok, but I have only heard it using a Meridian USB-DAC connected to the PC. Not the most ultimate test... My impression is that it kind of sharpen the sound, but without degrading the information. Impressive accomplishment if it works generally.
We plan to investigate this further and maybe even release music on MQA.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs ... -flac-674/

Kind regards

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by lejonklou » 2016-04-10 21:29

matthias wrote:
hcl wrote: If MQA can compete with up to 24/192 just using the bandwidth of 24/48 FLAC makes it interesting. What they do seem to be hidden, or maybe I have not searched enough? As Fredrik stated it seem to sound ok, but I have only heard it using a Meridian USB-DAC connected to the PC. Not the most ultimate test... My impression is that it kind of sharpen the sound, but without degrading the information. Impressive accomplishment if it works generally.
We plan to investigate this further and maybe even release music on MQA.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs ... -flac-674/

Kind regards

Matt
Excellent, I hadn't read this before. Thank you Matt!

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by hcl » 2016-04-16 16:19

matthias wrote:
hcl wrote: If MQA can compete with up to 24/192 just using the bandwidth of 24/48 FLAC makes it interesting. What they do seem to be hidden, or maybe I have not searched enough? As Fredrik stated it seem to sound ok, but I have only heard it using a Meridian USB-DAC connected to the PC. Not the most ultimate test... My impression is that it kind of sharpen the sound, but without degrading the information. Impressive accomplishment if it works generally.
We plan to investigate this further and maybe even release music on MQA.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs ... -flac-674/

Kind regards

Matt
Thanks, but what is the conclusion from that apart from that MQA:ed files should be played through a MQA capable player? What I'm most interested in is what kind of filtering they apply to achieve the really short impulse response they claim to have (addressing the time smearing issue of ordinary anti-aliasing filters)? I haven't seen that covered anywhere.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-07-26 22:14

IMO, regarding Ethernet Streaming the most interesting thing at the moment is AES67 Ravenna.
There are rumours that in autumn are coming OEM Ravenna boards with I2S output on the market.
Ravenna is able to do DSD up to DSD512 and PCM.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by lejonklou » 2016-07-27 06:18

matthias wrote:IMO, regarding Ethernet Streaming the most interesting thing at the moment is AES67 Ravenna.
There are rumours that in autumn are coming OEM Ravenna boards with I2S output on the market.
Ravenna is able to do DSD up to DSD512 and PCM.

Matt
Thanks Matt!

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-08-23 18:08

At the moment there are two interesting threads on other forums about Audio over IP(AES67):

http://www.head-fi.org/t/806827/audio-o ... uter-audio

and

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-n ... net-28878/

These threads are mostly about Dante, but there will be upcoming Ravenna devices as well.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-09-24 10:21

Linn uses now in the new Katalyst DAC the AK4497 DAC chip. Interesting!

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by lejonklou » 2016-09-24 10:58

AKM DACs are very good!

But how the digital signal is handled before it reaches the DAC is way more important. Source first applies there too, just like it does in the rest of the system.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-09-24 11:11

lejonklou wrote: But how the digital signal is handled before it reaches the DAC is way more important. Source first applies there too, just like it does in the rest of the system.
Yes, for sure.
They claim that they have optimised every parameter important for the DAC.
I am curious to listen to it and to compare to my personal references.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by macrotech2 » 2016-09-24 13:28

They claim to now have a rock steady reference level which wasn't there before apparently. Perhaps this will reduce the effects of "noise" getting mixed in with the digital signal from Ethernet cables and within the unit. I wonder whether the perceived changes from software updates will now reduce as well.
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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by Music Lover » 2016-09-24 15:47

macrotech2 wrote:They claim to now have a rock steady reference level which wasn't there before apparently.
matthias wrote:They claim that they have optimised every parameter important for the DAC.
Well...to just take ONE example, Linn claiming "independent Power Supplies".

Looking at the pics on a KDS/3, the PSU has one cable feeding the circuit board. The cable and connector look very (if not identical) to my KDS/2.
But I can be wrong.

I think the markting department got a bit too faar this time as well. We all remember the "source is in the speaker" that is now removed from the Exakt description.
It's all about musical understanding!

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-09-24 17:26

Music Lover wrote: Well...to just take ONE example, Linn claiming "independent Power Supplies".
Looking at the pics on a KDS/3, the PSU has one cable feeding the circuit board. The cable and connector look very (if not identical) to my KDS/2.
But I can be wrong.
I think the markting department got a bit too faar this time as well. We all remember the "source is in the speaker" that is now removed from the Exakt description.
IMO, the usual marketing bla-bla, the clock they use is not top spec too.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by lejonklou » 2016-09-24 18:44

macrotech2 wrote:They claim to now have a rock steady reference level which wasn't there before apparently. Perhaps this will reduce the effects of "noise" getting mixed in with the digital signal from Ethernet cables and within the unit. I wonder whether the perceived changes from software updates will now reduce as well.
I don't think it will. Those are two completely different things in my experience.

We've made some spectacular break throughs in exactly that area in these last few months. How to retrieve and transport digital data to a streamer/DAC is a fascinating challenge.

The rock steady reference voltage circuit Linn are now using in the KDS/3 can be found in my preamps Sagatun Mono and stereo. Great chip.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by u252agz » 2016-09-24 20:41

lejonklou wrote:
The rock steady reference voltage circuit Linn are now using in the KDS/3 can be found in my preamps Sagatun Mono and stereo. Great chip.
Is this a case of 'the master has now become the student' ?
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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-09-25 10:42

lejonklou wrote: We've made some spectacular break throughs in exactly that area in these last few months. How to retrieve and transport digital data to a streamer/DAC is a fascinating challenge.
Fredrik,
can you elaborate further or is it a secret?

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by lejonklou » 2016-09-25 10:51

matthias wrote:Fredrik,
can you elaborate further or is it a secret?

Matt
Not yet, I'm afraid. As soon as it's a product, I'll elaborate.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-09-25 20:38

Fredrik,
may I ask whether your system will support higher rate DSD?

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by lejonklou » 2016-09-25 21:07

matthias wrote:Fredrik,
may I ask whether your system will support higher rate DSD?

Matt
The specifications are not final yet. We've just laid the foundation, so lots of work and decisions remain.

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-10-31 08:18

Fredrik,
congratulations on the very successful launch of Boazu at two major events.
Will the streamer or DAC be your next product?

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Re: The New Lejonklou Streamer

Post by matthias » 2016-12-25 11:57

There seem to be some good reports about Daphile:

https://www.daphile.com/

It is a headless Linux based music server and player OS.

Do some members of this forum have experiences with this software?

Merry Christmas to all!

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