Tundra 2 power amplifier

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by DelNaja » 2016-03-05 16:57

TMV wrote:Tundra 2 and Tundra 2A
Pardon me, but what do you refer to? I've never heard of "Tundra 2A".

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by TMV » 2016-03-05 17:03

DelNaja wrote:
TMV wrote:Tundra 2 and Tundra 2A
Pardon me, but what do you refer to? I've never heard of "Tundra 2A".
http://www.lejonklou.com/products/tundra/
Version 2.0A

Introduced in November 2015
Applies to all Tundra 2 amplifiers with serial number 060 and above
Multiple minor changes to circuit board, casework and power supplies
Sound improvement: Yes
Previous model upgradable: Not cost effective, as nearly everything would need to be replaced
Comment: A redesign became necessary due to components and materials becoming obsolete


Supposed to be a bit better than than Tundra 2.

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by TMV » 2016-03-05 17:12

magnuska wrote:
TMV wrote:Will Tundra 2 and Tundra 2A have the same possibilities for future upgrades? Will the upgrade cost be higher for T2?
Good question TMV Have you heard them and if its a difference? Perhaps you had the chance to attend at Tonläget a couple of days ago? I understand he demoed his new crossovers for T1 and listening to Tundra at such demos is normally a safe bet:)
T2A + T1 synkron was very good at Tonläget!!!

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by jewa » 2016-03-05 21:29

yes, and T2A + T1 reference was spectacular!

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by DelNaja » 2016-03-06 08:55

Okay, thanks. I've missed that bit of info completely.

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by rowlandhills » 2016-03-06 22:44

DelNaja wrote:
Okay, thanks. I've missed that bit of info completely.
This seems to have come in very quietly. First I've heard of it too.

Does it mean that any future upgrades will not be retrofittable to a Tundra 2.0?

I have a 1.2 which I was intending to bring up to 2.0 spec this year some time, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea now...
KRDSM, Tundra to 242s
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou » 2016-03-07 00:21

TMV wrote:Will Tundra 2 and Tundra 2A have the same possibilities for future upgrades? Will the upgrade cost be higher for T2?
Hi TMV!

Most likely Tundra 2 will be possible to upgrade in the same way as Tundra 2A. And to the same cost. But as I don't have any upgrades planned, it's impossible to say for certain. Ultimately it will depend on what comes up.

Tundra 2A is the exact same circuit as Tundra 2, but with many small details altered. The circuit board is of a new type, the RCA connectors are new, the components are the same but of a different selected combination and the case has two more fixing points and is identical to the one used for Tundra Mono.

The story behind Tundra 2A was that I needed to make a new batch of Tundra's and ran into problems. I had difficulties getting the new batch as good as the previous, because the components I am using are measured and selected and I need a certain combination to achieve the performance of Tundra. Suddenly this combination proved impossible to obtain. For instance, I bought 1500 transistors and not even 100 of them had the specs I wanted. I needed many more. It wasn't that they were bad or faulty, just that the parameters I was sorting for had drifted upwards in value. I honestly don't think anyone in the world noticed or cared about this other than me, because they are normally not used for audio but for high current high reliability use - for instance in cars. They just want them to work and last. I buy many and sort out the ones that measure in a certain way - and that is how I get an incredibly good sounding transistor.

As I now needed to use transistors with higher values, I knew that several other components would need their values adjusted too. If I could find a new balance, I had a chance of making the batch sounding as good as the old one. This required a lot of listening tests, which I performed, and after a few weeks the new component balance was musical and good. But not quite as good as the old one! Very annoying and it just didn't feel acceptable to produce a batch that was worse than the previous. To make matters worse, my old stock of favourite RCA connectors had run out and I tested 15 new types (simply by soldering them to a test board and listening to them) and ordered many of the best sounding one. Was it as good as my old RCA? No, not quite.

All of this happened in the summer of 2015. After a lot of work, I had ended up with a slightly revised Tundra 2 board that was not quite as good as the old one. I was beginning to panic, as I really needed to manufacture this batch. The old stock was nearly gone. I knew of one way to improve performance and that was to use the case of Tundra Mono, which uses two more fixing points for the main board. Easy decision. I had also used another design of the circuit board and its copper layers on Sagatun and Sagatun Mono and thought that I have to try that technology on Tundra as well. This new design changes some things electrically and I wasn't 100% sure it would only be for the better. Most likely another session of fine tuning the circuit would be needed.

So this is the full story behind the NEWS picture of the new black board from the 19th of November 2015 on my website (scroll down on http://www.lejonklou.com/news/). It was looong fight to get there, the prototype board sounded really good, actually a bit better than the previous batch, and I just wanted the final boards to turn out the same. Thankfully they did!

Why didn't this get a new version number? Well, because the circuit is the same as Tundra 2.0 and nearly all components too. If I find ways to improve Tundra further, they will likely work on both the old and the new board. I decided to just call it 2.0A.

Can 2.0 be upgraded to 2.0A? In theory, yes. But as not only the main board but also the casing differs, it becomes very expensive. Drilling the old case can easily damage the paint and that would look ugly. Replacing the case is a lot of work. I just don't feel that the musical improvement is worth such an expensive rebuild, so I decided not to offer it.

I hope this explains what Tundra 2 and 2A is about. If you have any questions, please ask!

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by DelNaja » 2016-03-07 00:43

Thank you, Fredrik, for the honest, and interesting, story of the 2A version. Seems a tricky business keeping the production going, what with the discontinuation of parts and all. Good thing you got it sorted out in the end!

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by TMV » 2016-03-07 08:18

lejonklou wrote: Can 2.0 be upgraded to 2.0A? In theory, yes. But as not only the main board but also the casing differs, it becomes very expensive. Drilling the old case can easily damage the paint and that would look ugly. Replacing the case is a lot of work. I just don't feel that the musical improvement is worth such an expensive rebuild, so I decided not to offer it.

I hope this explains what Tundra 2 and 2A is about. If you have any questions, please ask!
Thanks for the detailed explanation and for your dedication to always release a similar or better version!

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Ozzzy189 » 2016-03-07 08:39

Rowlandhills, you should absolutely get your amplifier upgraded, it's a very worthwhile upgrade and the difference between the 2.0 and 2.0A is small, more so when compare the upgrade from 1.2 to 2.0
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by rowlandhills » 2016-03-07 12:51

Thanks Fredrik. Sounds like a very sensible choice to use the same case for both Tundra and Tundra Mono. Certainly increases the batch size that you can order.
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Flatcoat » 2016-03-14 19:30

Yesterday, I visited the person who has looked after my system for something like 25 years who is Anthony on this forum, Whizz on the Linn forum. At present he is using KDS2 with Tundra Stereo 2A and MkII 242's. Simply put it was one of the best systems I have ever heard with all the parameters involved in creating an enjoyable listening experience being present. I had some of my Tundra Stereo amps including the 1.2 and 2.0 spec variants. We compared these and although overall the 2A had the edge, even the 1.2 sounded fantastic in his system. We also listened to a Dynamik Twin compared to the Tundra Stereos and the Tundra amps were definitely superior. All I can say is that Frederik has produced an incredible product - especially when you consider the price.

The other purpose of my visit was to take four of my Tundra Stereo amps and Akurate Exakt 10 channel crossover for Anthony to set up the 242's with 5 Tundra amps ! I will most likely return at Easter to have a listen to that system and see how it performs, and will report back in the future.

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Ozzzy189 » 2016-03-15 09:14

Can't wait for the follow up report. Interesting that there's no mention of a pre amp with the kds2, although the dvc is better than the kds1 dvc I'm certain that a pre amp on the level of sagatun monos would bring a very worthwhile and musical improvement. Has this been tried yet?
Regards
Daniel.
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Flatcoat » 2016-03-15 12:19

No pre amp was used. Maybe Sagatun Monos would be better but when the system is probably the best I have ever heard, you would question whether it is worth spending more money on it.
Ozzzy189 wrote:Can't wait for the follow up report. Interesting that there's no mention of a pre amp with the kds2, although the dvc is better than the kds1 dvc I'm certain that a pre amp on the level of sagatun monos would bring a very worthwhile and musical improvement. Has this been tried yet?
Regards
Daniel.

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Ozzzy189 » 2016-03-15 12:45

Well if you want to hear them you're welcome to borrow mine.
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Flatcoat » 2016-03-15 18:45

Not possible for me as my KDS is Exakt only. Anthony lives in Suffolk so not exactly just round the corner from you.
Ozzzy189 wrote:Well if you want to hear them you're welcome to borrow mine.

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Ozzzy189 » 2016-03-15 19:11

Ahh, I see, locked in! No worries, just a thought.
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by macrotech2 » 2016-03-15 22:15

As Anthony is a Lejonklou dealer, I'm surprised he still doesn't have a pair of Sagatun Monos!
KDS/3 Katalyst / Oppo 205 / Sky Q / Sagatun Mono Tarandus / Tundra Mono 2 Tarandus / Akubariks

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by macrotech2 » 2016-03-15 22:26

Flatcoat wrote:No pre amp was used. Maybe Sagatun Monos would be better but when the system is probably the best I have ever heard, you would question whether it is worth spending more money on it.
Ozzzy189 wrote:Can't wait for the follow up report. Interesting that there's no mention of a pre amp with the kds2, although the dvc is better than the kds1 dvc I'm certain that a pre amp on the level of sagatun monos would bring a very worthwhile and musical improvement. Has this been tried yet?
Regards
Daniel.
That's saying a lot since you have Exakt 350s I believe?
I suspect it would definitely be worth adding the Sagatun Monos though.
KDS/3 Katalyst / Oppo 205 / Sky Q / Sagatun Mono Tarandus / Tundra Mono 2 Tarandus / Akubariks

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by u252agz » 2016-03-16 21:33

I'm also using KDS/2 with Tundra 2 (albeit monos) and mark 3 242s and also think it sounds very good.

But with Sagatun monos 1.0 , it is so much better - see recent thread in Hi Fi section.

I would love to compare KDS/1 and Sagatun Monos vs KDS/2 alone , using Tundra /242.

I have a feeling it would make for an interesting session.
KDS2/Sagatun Tundra Monos /242s /LP12 Kore-KRad-Ekos SE/Slip 7

Sneaky/RP3/Slip 6.1/ Boazu/ Komp110

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by TMV » 2016-03-20 17:49

Fredrik, do you do any marks on the case when upgrading your products?

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou » 2016-03-20 19:35

TMV wrote:Fredrik, do you do any marks on the case when upgrading your products?
It depends on which upgrade it is. There are no visual differences between Tundra 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. And no visual difference between Sagatun 1.0 and 1.1.

Tundra 2 and Tundra Mono 2, however, has a new overlay on the back plate. It says 2 very clearly.

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Music Lover » 2016-03-21 00:29

lejonklou wrote:
TMV wrote:Fredrik, do you do any marks on the case when upgrading your products?
It depends on which upgrade it is. There are no visual differences between Tundra 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. And no visual difference between Sagatun 1.0 and 1.1.

Tundra 2 and Tundra Mono 2, however, has a new overlay on the back plate. It says 2 very clearly.
I think TWV like to know if you add a label/write text on the back to identify the version after an upgrade...
It's all about musical understanding!

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou » 2016-03-21 14:29

Music Lover wrote:I think TWV like to know if you add a label/write text on the back to identify the version after an upgrade...
Yes, that is also the question I answered.

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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by anthony » 2016-03-24 14:44

Ozzzy189 wrote:Can't wait for the follow up report. Interesting that there's no mention of a pre amp with the kds2, although the dvc is better than the kds1 dvc I'm certain that a pre amp on the level of sagatun monos would bring a very worthwhile and musical improvement. Has this been tried yet?
Regards
Daniel.

Into week two using exaktbox, 5 tundras, and 242s.
Initial impressions were technically better, but musicality no better.
Decided to reposition the 242s, found the sweet spot to be 5mm further forward than the equivalent passive setup.
Quite amazing how you can throw so much extra money at a system and it can be all down to speaker placement, to reap the rewards.
Without even applying space settings the musicality was back, and had a very enjoyable evening, so much more insight and subtleties, more power and bass control.
Will wait for flatcoats assessment, not sure I can let his tundras go now!

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