Tundra 2 power amplifier

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Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou »

Premiere at Hidden Systems in Hartley Wintney the 19th of May 2015.
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by rowlandhills »

Sounds very interesting.

Can you tell us more about the changes? Do they include similar things to those on the Tundra Mono 2, such as the large copper heatsink?
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou »

rowlandhills wrote:Can you tell us more about the changes? Do they include similar things to those on the Tundra Mono 2, such as the large copper heatsink?
The changes are four and they are similar to Tundra Mono 2:

1. Copper heat sink

2. Best Thermal Interface Material that exists

3. Two component changes on the main board

4. New ground connection (the same as in Sagatun 1.1, Sagatun Mono 1.1 and Tundra Mono 2.0)
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by rowlandhills »

Thanks Fredrik. I look forward to hearing it soon, although unfortunately I can't make next week's demos.
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by fatjulio »

Any indication on the magnitude of improvement?
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou »

fatjulio wrote:Any indication on the magnitude of improvement?
I have repeatedly been comparing against my reference Tundra 1.2, serial number 001, so I know exactly what each part of the upgrade does. Actually I wish I could demonstrate them one by one!

The first brings weight and solidity to the music. As if it's bolted down firmly instead of bouncing around.

The second makes the lowest bass appear as clean notes instead of indistinct punches. It also shifts the focus in the way the music flows and unfolds, in a way that is hard to describe.

The third cleans up the sound, making it less distorted and more nuanced.

The fourth (thanks again Paolo!) makes all edges more defined. Notes start and stop more precisely.

The magnitude of these four improvements combined is probably best described by someone else. On Tuesday at Hidden Systems I will be demonstrating Tundra 1.2 versus 2.0 and then Tundra Mono 2.0. Hopefully some visitors will comment on the differences!
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by DelNaja »

lejonklou wrote:
fatjulio wrote:Any indication on the magnitude of improvement?
I have repeatedly been comparing against my reference Tundra 1.2, serial number 001, so I know exactly what each part of the upgrade does. Actually I wish I could demonstrate them one by one!

The first brings weight and solidity to the music. As if it's bolted down firmly instead of bouncing around.

The second makes the lowest bass appear as clean notes instead of indistinct punches. It also shifts the focus in the way the music flows and unfolds, in a way that is hard to describe.

The third cleans up the sound, making it less distorted and more nuanced.

The fourth (thanks again Paolo!) makes all edges more defined. Notes start and stop more precisely.

The magnitude of these four improvements combined is probably best described by someone else. On Tuesday at Hidden Systems I will be demonstrating Tundra 1.2 versus 2.0 and then Tundra Mono 2.0. Hopefully some visitors will comment on the differences!
This was very helpful and interesting info. Thank you Fredrik!

It would be interesting to hear how close, with the new improvements, the Tundra 2 comes to Tundra Mono 2.
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Ron The Mon »

DelNaja wrote:It would be interesting to hear how close, with the new improvements, the Tundra 2 comes to Tundra Mono 2.
I doubt it will be close at all.

It was about a year ago I heard my Isobariks with a Tundra stereo and told Tom O'Keefe it was probably the best I've ever heard Isobariks. Then he asked if I minded him substituting Tundra Monos (1.0). Of course none of us would mind but we were pressed for time!

While he was connecting them I asked his opinion on upgrading the (original) tweeters in my Isobariks as the only minor complaint I had was there was a slight hash to the high end.

Then came the Tundra Monos (1.0). Within a minute I told Tom it was clearly not only the best I've ever heard Isobariks but this was one of the best hi-fis I've ever heard. Tom nodded his head and said he thought it sounded pretty good. Tom has a really good poker face so it's hard to judge his opinion. I later found out he was as gobsmacked as I was.

So much so that there were quite a few of us who listened to another pair of Isobariks at Overture Audio about a month ago which were on display run strictly with Lejonklou for about a week. That is quite an interest by faculty and customers!

The shortest, most decisive, AAB demo I've ever heard in my life was comparing Tundra Mono to Tundra Mono 2.0. It literally took less than two seconds! All three of us customers made that "pffft" sound at the same time two seconds after hearing the upgraded amps. Tom insisted we do a couple more demos but all that was made clear to me was that there was a bigger advance from Mono to Mono2.0 than going from Tundra stereo to original Mono. The 2.0 is that big of an improvement.

If the ratio of improvement stays the same with the improved Tundra Stereo, it will be a great performing amp, but no Tundra Mono 2.0, as that is a very special amp!

Ron The Mon

P.S.
When Tom first played my Isobariks with the Tundra Monos, all the treble siblance and hash disappeared that I mentioned above. No new tweeters necessary. Mono 2.0 had the most tuneful, clear, clean high end I've ever heard from a passive speaker, let alone a thirty year old pair with original tweeters!!!
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by Ozzzy189 »

Fredrik, does the tundra stereo 2.0 have the status port and trim screw?
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou »

Ron The Mon wrote:I doubt it will be close at all.
Thanks for the story, Ron!

When I started working on Tundra 2, my aim was to beat Tundra Mono 2. I suspected I wouldn't succeed with that, and I didn't. But it was still my aim, in the spirit of "never protect a product".
Ozzzy189 wrote:Fredrik, does the tundra stereo 2.0 have the status port and trim screw?
No, it doesn't. For several reasons, Tundra 2 doesn't really benefit from that feature.
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by tmilligan »

I am super excited about this.

Is this going to be available as an upgrade? Having the only remaining Tundra 1.0 I expect I would see quite a difference...!
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by ThomasOK »

tmilligan wrote:I am super excited about this.

Is this going to be available as an upgrade? Having the only remaining Tundra 1.0 I expect I would see quite a difference...!
Considering the difference between Tundra Mono 1 and 2 I think that's a fairly safe bet.

Yes, the Tundra 2 upgrade will be available for owners of older Tundras. I am expecting Fredrik to get back to me with the upgrade pricing soon but it should be a bit less than the price to upgrade a single Tundra Mono 1 to a 2 which is $770 in the US. The Tundra 2 upgrade is a bit simpler and less labor intensive which allows it to be performed at a lower cost despite parts costs being similar.
Last edited by ThomasOK on 2015-05-15 23:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by ThomasOK »

lejonklou wrote:
fatjulio wrote:Any indication on the magnitude of improvement?
I have repeatedly been comparing against my reference Tundra 1.2, serial number 001, so I know exactly what each part of the upgrade does. Actually I wish I could demonstrate them one by one!

The first brings weight and solidity to the music. As if it's bolted down firmly instead of bouncing around.

The second makes the lowest bass appear as clean notes instead of indistinct punches. It also shifts the focus in the way the music flows and unfolds, in a way that is hard to describe.

The third cleans up the sound, making it less distorted and more nuanced.

The fourth (thanks again Paolo!) makes all edges more defined. Notes start and stop more precisely.

The magnitude of these four improvements combined is probably best described by someone else. On Tuesday at Hidden Systems I will be demonstrating Tundra 1.2 versus 2.0 and then Tundra Mono 2.0. Hopefully some visitors will comment on the differences!
It is very interesting to read where the various improvements come from. Having done the ground upgrades separately on the Sagatuns I agree with the characterization of the improvement it makes. I would have to say that the summation of the above list pretty much equals the improvements I have heard between the Tundra Mono 1 and the Mono 2 when we did the comparisons here. Although I would add that there was more bass power and slam as well. There definitely was an improvement in flow and timing as indicated in the second upgrade above.

This should be quite an improvement for the Tundra and I think will make it quite a steal. I'm looking forward to it.
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou »

Pricing for upgrade of Tundra 1.x to Tundra 2.0 has now been set:

SEK 4700
GBP 390
EUR 504-525 (depending on VAT)
USD 590

These are the customer prices, including VAT. The upgrade is carried out at Lejonklou in Sweden and at Nokturne Audio in the USA (shipping to these locations is an additional cost).

Please contact your retailer, who will help you book the upgrade and arrange the shipping.
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by clasch66 »

Yesterday I received my upgraded Tundra 1.2 -> 2.0. 1st Impression after unboxing: Heavy!

I don't want to stress all above statements about the characteristics of the improvements. It is very hard to compare when there is a gap of some days inbetween listening to the two versions. During this time I used my spare C2200/D.
However one thing I'd like to say: Sounds great! :-) The most obvious change in my perception is the "solidity" thing. It really feels like the Tundra is, spoken in football terms, now playing with a more solid defense which allows the offense to develop and unfold easier ;-)

Definitely an worthwhile upgrade!

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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you Claus!

Tundra 2 was released in June and I have so far upgraded less than ten units. Many are waiting and now that I'm back 100% after the summer break, I aim to erase the waiting list.

I have also not yet updated the website with information about Tundra 2, which several have complained about. Apologies! It will be taken care of.
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Re: Lejonklou Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou »

Website is now - finally! - updated with information about Tundra 2.

The manuals have also been updated.

http://www.lejonklou.com/products/tundra/
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by ThomasOK »

Cool, looks good.
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by ThomasOK »

I'm afraid I'm quite overdue to give my feelings on the Tundra 2 upgrade. So I'll start out by saying that it is a total success and really something any Tundra stereo owner should look into. I have now upgraded several units, done comparisons in the store with a Tundra 1.2 and loaned it to existing customers and the results have all been the same - this is definitely a major upgrade.

The biggest differences you notice at first are the improvements in the bass. This is one place where the Tundra Mono was obviously dominant. With the 2 upgrade the Tundra stereo now has a power in the bass to keep up with the big boys (the Monos). But it is not only improved bass power but substantially improved bass tonality, flow and timing - the bass instruments are playing more together and the quality of playing is more obvious. This improved tonality and flow continues on throughout the frequency range with more natural overtones and a longer decay on all instruments and more energy to the playing. In this way it comes close to the original Tundra Mono, although it doesn't quite reach that level, and the Mono 2s are just the best in my experience, period.

Like the Sagatuns the quality that is most obvious is the ability to engage you with the music and give it a live quality while having a previously unheard naturalness. In my experience this is not a combination you often find in Hi-Fi equipment as many "live" sounding components are forward and fatiguing and many mellow sounding pieces are slow and boring. To combine drive and naturalness brings a sound normally only associated with live music and shows that the Tundra 2, like the 2 version of the Mono before it, truly serves the music and moves the enjoyment of it a significant step forward. It is getting repetitive, but again well done Fredrik. I am so glad that there is at least one Hi-Fi company that is still pushing the quality of musical reproduction forward in amplification products.
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou »

Tundra 2 is now back in stock after a period of intense work with the new batch.

Apologies to those of you who have had to wait!

This power amplifier is not easy to make in the first place and to make matters worse several components have been discontinued and others have had their specifications change slightly. As "slightly" becomes a big deal in Tundra, I've had to make many small adaptions to maintain quality. I am also stocking up on a big heap of critical parts to make sure this amp can be built and serviced for many years to come.
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by magnuska »

Hi Fredrik!

I am corious about the Tundra 2 and especially how loud you can play together with Klångedang T1? This speaker
is only 85 db as you know
Can these combo produce sound levels without clipping that is enough for a live music feeling? Has this new edition
became better in this aspect than the previous one?

My plan is eventually to bring Sagatun and Tundra 2 on a homeloan from my dealer to find out myself.

Thanks in advance!

Magnus
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by lejonklou »

Hi Magnus!

I have T1 at home, as you know, and I often test Tundra 2's on them. In my room, this combination gets really loud. Louder than my ears can take, to be honest. But it depends on the size of the room and what you consider loud, so please try it yourself and tell us what you think!

If your dealer is the maker of Klångedang T1, Tonläget HiFi in Gothenburg, I know that he has a stereo Sagatun on demo. And next week I will ship him a brand new Tundra 2.
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by magnuska »

lejonklou wrote:Hi Magnus!

I have T1 at home, as you know, and I often test Tundra 2's on them. In my room, this combination gets really loud. Louder than my ears can take, to be honest. But it depends on the size of the room and what you consider loud, so please try it yourself and tell us what you think!

If your dealer is the maker of Klångedang T1, Tonläget HiFi in Gothenburg, I know that he has a stereo Sagatun on demo. And next week I will ship him a brand new Tundra 2.
Hi Yes its Tonläget!
Hope to arrange a homedemo within reasonable time. And yes I will let you know.
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by TMV »

Will Tundra 2 and Tundra 2A have the same possibilities for future upgrades? Will the upgrade cost be higher for T2?
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Re: Tundra 2 power amplifier

Post by magnuska »

TMV wrote:Will Tundra 2 and Tundra 2A have the same possibilities for future upgrades? Will the upgrade cost be higher for T2?
Good question TMV Have you heard them and if its a difference? Perhaps you had the chance to attend at Tonläget a couple of days ago? I understand he demoed his new crossovers for T1 and listening to Tundra at such demos is normally a safe bet:)
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