Sagatun and Sagatun Mono

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fatjulio
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Post by fatjulio »

Were the Sagatun's used in the demo evening in normal or single source mode?
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Post by Ozzzy189 »

Thank you so very much for sharing your experience with us Thomas. I certainly know where you're coming from, I also found Fredrik such an engaging person and just such a lovely man. His passion and enthusiasm is unmatched in my opinion, I've never met the owner and designer of a hifi company before and I didn't know what to expect, but meeting him was one of the highlights of my life so far. He is a real diamond.
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Post by ThomasOK »

fatjulio wrote:Were the Sagatun's used in the demo evening in normal or single source mode?
Most of the comparisons were done using the direct inputs. However, Fredrik also demonstrated the difference between that and the regular inputs and some other things like the effect of turning the lights off on the Tundra.

I also forgot to mention that the KK/2 used, my personal unit, had all the torques optimized to the most musical settings found by Paolo, Fredrik and I and also had the optimal user settings.
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Post by anthony »

ThomasOK wrote:
fatjulio wrote:Were the Sagatun's used in the demo evening in normal or single source mode?
Most of the comparisons were done using the direct inputs. However, Fredrik also demonstrated the difference between that and the regular inputs and some other things like the effect of turning the lights off on the Tundra.

I also forgot to mention that the KK/2 used, my personal unit, had all the torques optimized to the most musical settings found by Paolo, Fredrik and I and also had the optimal user settings.
Have you tried sagatun with your ATC s ?
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Post by matthias »

anthony wrote:Have you tried sagatun with your ATC s ?
+1

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Post by tokenbrit »

Hi Matt & Anthony, did you see Tom's post on page 1 of this thread? It gives some idea of early comparisons at his home to read while waiting for further updates on Sagatun with the ATCs :)
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Post by ThomasOK »

matthias wrote:
anthony wrote:Have you tried sagatun with your ATC s ?
+1

Matt
Why yes, of course. If you look at my comments about halfway down the first page of this thread where I start it "Sagatun has landed in North America!" The listening I mentioned that Debbie and I did was all on my ATC SCM100ASLs at home with the LP12SE/Kandid as source. A brief summation was that Debbie liked the KK/2 better than the Sagatun standard inputs but the Sagatun Direct input better than the KK/2. This with the Sagatun not really fully burned in yet but with a decent amount of time on it. My feelings were close to that. I definitely found the Sagatun Direct more musical, with the regular inputs I felt it was a toss up with the Sagartun doing some things better and the KK/2 doing other things better.

The listening I mentioned Fredrik and I did on the day before the musical evening was all at my house on the ATCs. We did a brief comparison of the KK/2 and the Monos but the latter were so clearly more musical that we spent the rest of the day listening to the LP12, Sagatun Mono, ATC configuration while exploring music and playing around with the Harmoni racks. The system sounded excellent with the Sagatun Monos and was the best I have ever heard it. Fredrik really enjoyed the system and was pretty impressed with the music coming out of the ATCs. I think it would be best if he commented on what he thought of the ATCs, but I still thought they were better than anything else I have yet heard. i would love to hear passive Akubariks with Tundra Monos but that may be hard to arrange in the US.

But the Sagatun Monos let us hear even more music coming through the ATCs and there were certainly no compatibility problems. My personal pair of Sagatun Monos are on order with Fredrik but a couple of customers must come first.
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Post by ThomasOK »

I mentioned in my coverage of the musical evening that I had some further thoughts on the Feist "Metals" album but there wasn't a good place for them so I'll cover that here.

The Feist album was the one people had the hardest time deciding whether they liked the KK/2 or Sagatun stereo on. It was also a track that has a long and very simple intro, mostly on electronic keyboards, that didn't have a lot going on. When I thought about this it took me back to when TJ and I were doing our first comparisons on the Tundra Stereo vs. Klimax Solos (a comparison that, due to the price difference might have seemed ludicrous). We noticed that most of the time we felt the Tundra Stereo was more musical than the Solos. But then on a few tracks we both liked the Solos more. When we started to try to figure out why that was we came to a surprising conclusion: that the 24WPC Tundra was more musical, enjoyable and in more control when the music was complex than the 290WPC Solos despite how counterintuitive this may appear. However, on really simple material like vocal with a single guitar or keyboard the Solos had a quality that was more enjoyable. We listened to a number of tracks and verified this trend. Very simple tracks showed the best of the Solos, but as soon as you had a handful of instruments the Tundra did a better job of sorting things out and presenting the flavor of the music whereas the Solos started sounding more confused.

I believe that the same effect is what occurred with the Feist song on the Sagatun stereo vs. the KK/2. I noticed on this piece a beguiling quality to the voice on the KK/2 that was a bit better than the still quite good sound of the Sagatun stereo. But put on a group, even a simple four person rock or jazz group and the Sagatun sorted things out better and kept the strands of music more together and making more sense.

Of course, once you went to the Sagatun Monos it was "Game Over, Man!" there just didn't seem to be anything that the Monos weren't doing in a more musical way than anything we had previously heard from the KK/2 or the Sagatun stereo. In my experience this is also the case with the Tundra Monos although not to the same degree as with the Sagatun. They are really lovely, musically fun pieces.
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Post by SaltyDog »

Are the Sagatun Monos available in a 230V 60Hz configuration?

+1 smiley cool guy on all the positive comments on the ever enjoyable personality of Mr. Lejonklou.
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Post by ThomasOK »

SaltyDog wrote:Are the Sagatun Monos available in a 230V 60Hz configuration?

+1 smiley cool guy on all the positive comments on the ever enjoyable personality of Mr. Lejonklou.
All Sagatun units are auto-ranging. So, yes.
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Post by lejonklou »

Sagatun update: A new firmware with switch-off memory is being tested.

Due to public demand, my firmware guru Linntek and I have implemented a memory feature on Sagatun and Sagatun Mono, that allows all settings to be memorized when power is switched off. When your Sagatun's are switched back on, they will return to the exact same state as before.

The following settings are memorized:
Current input (1 to 4)
Current volume (0 to 100)
Child Lock (activated or not)
Remote control (any type or HiFi models only)
Max volume (78 or 100)
Unity Gain (activated or not on input 4)

All Sagatun's will from now be shipped with the new firmware (I know some of you are waiting for yours, thank you for your patience!) All Sagatun's with the original firmware can easily be updated by your distributor or retailer.

These firmware changes have no effect on performance.

EDIT: The last sentence above proved to be WRONG.
The memory functions affected performance and could not be implemented.
For a more complete story, see my post on the next page of this thread!
Last edited by lejonklou on 2014-08-15 20:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Azazello »

Made a separate thread about ATC amplification.

/Az
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Post by anthony »

Spent the evening listening to stereo sagatun being fed from a kdsm1 analogue output, into dynamiked twin and akubariks.
Frederik has a great preamp the system is totally compelling, involving and musical.
Hopefully tonight will replace the twin with Tundra monos it was sounding so good I didn't want to change anything last night.
Also have sagatun mono to introduce.
The kdsm1 has surprised me both analogue and exakt output are superb.
Listening to many systems from majik to full exakt , what I enjoyed last night is a lovely system, probably the sweet spot.
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Post by lejonklou »

Thank you Anthony!

I'm very happy that you like it.
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Post by u252agz »

I would love to hear Anthonys opinion concerning the improvement with switching the sagatun stereo to monos, in his system.

I cannot decide which I should go for. Having removed the AK/1 and using KDS/1 internal volume, I have realised just how important the pre amplifier is.

Whilst my KDS and Tundra Monos still sounds very good - it took 24 hours to get used to the lack of musicality, upon removing the AK/1.

The immediate reaction was - ' this is unnacepatable'.
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Post by anthony »

u252agz wrote:I would love to hear Anthonys opinion concerning the improvement with switching the sagatun stereo to monos, in his system.

I cannot decide which I should go for. Having removed the AK/1 and using KDS/1 internal volume, I have realised just how important the pre amplifier is.

Whilst my KDS and Tundra Monos still sounds very good - it took 24 hours to get used to the lack of musicality, upon removing the AK/1.

The immediate reaction was - ' this is unnacepatable'.
Hello, just demonstrated mono, vs stereo Sagatun to Macrotech, the difference is not small, far larger than the original Sagatun monos we heard at Chris's.
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Post by macrotech2 »

Rest of system was Exakt KDSM / Tunbra Monos into Akubariks.

The difference between the Sagatun Stereo and Mono was huge. Interestingly the Sagatun Stereo was better than the internal preamp in the KDSM Exakt, which some have claimed is on a par with KDS/1 / Klimax Kontrol.
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Post by matthias »

macrotech2 wrote:Rest of system was Exakt KDSM / Tunbra Monos into Akubariks.

The difference between the Sagatun Stereo and Mono was huge. Interestingly the Sagatun Stereo was better than the internal preamp in the KDSM Exakt, which some have claimed is on a par with KDS/1 / Klimax Kontrol.
Does the Exakt KDSM have analogue outputs?

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Post by anthony »

matthias wrote:
macrotech2 wrote:Rest of system was Exakt KDSM / Tunbra Monos into Akubariks.

The difference between the Sagatun Stereo and Mono was huge. Interestingly the Sagatun Stereo was better than the internal preamp in the KDSM Exakt, which some have claimed is on a par with KDS/1 / Klimax Kontrol.
Does the Exakt KDSM have analogue outputs?

Matt
It was a KDSM1 with analogue and exakt outputs.
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Post by u252agz »

Not the result i was hoping for but the one I was expecting.

Even at the uk launch i thought the stereo was preferable to the kk2 and i preferred the monos to the stereo. This was before it was 'sorted out' later in the day ; and since then both have been further improved by Fredrik, prior to production.

Our American colleagues seem to have the same opinion regarding the production ready sagatuns and it is reassuring to see the consistency.

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Post by tokenbrit »

With KDS/1 source & Tundra Monos I wouldn't hesitate over the decision to go for the Sagatun Monos... only over which of my kids' college fund to raid for the extra ~£3k/$5.5k ;)

PS I was the one at the US launch who 'returned' my Sagatun Stereo, unopened box, after hearing the Sagatun Monos.
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Post by u252agz »

Thanks for that.

It is good to see that there is a consensus on the forum regarding this decision.

The AK/1 is already boxed up - it will be painful to let it go as it is a really good pre amp and the switch from the kolektor to the ak1 ( using a renew ds and triamped ninkas) has been one of the most dramatic improvements i have seen in my system. Comparable to the switch from Renew ds to KDS/1 ( this time with Tundra stereo and Ninkas in place).
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Post by HIDDENSYSTEMS »

anthony wrote:Hello, just demonstrated mono, vs stereo Sagatun to Macrotech, the difference is not small, far larger than the original Sagatun monos we heard at Chris's.
Glad you are having fun with demo's using the same spec as USA tour. The UK launch unearthed things and it's been a pleasure to read so many positive comments whilst on the beach. Have a listen to this track thru a Lejonklou system - I'm on a little Bose Soundlink Mini and Bluetooth ;-( for now
http://open.spotify.com/track/4aBnjyIFUFB57YfKNWY4rO

enjoy
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Post by lejonklou »

Thank you for your comments, everyone! I'm thrilled to read that you like the Sagatun's so much.

Chris is right that the UK launch unearthed things and both stereo and Mono were improved before they started shipping.

The new firmware with complete memory after power off is now fully tested and ready. Linntek has done a great job on this. Sagatun's are shipping again and those who want their firmware upgraded can soon get it at your retailer's.
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Post by Ozzzy189 »

Aye, looking forward to getting my mitts on some gear for my demos. If anyone in the North of England wants to hear how fantastic these products are pleased pm me and I'll do my best to get a day aside for a visit. I'm in York next week and it's a two day demo, should be fun!
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