Ozzzy's Sagatun experience.

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Ozzzy's Sagatun experience.

Post by Ozzzy189 »

Hidden Systems Lejonklou Sagatun launch premiere.

Saturday the 17th of May is a day I shall never forget. Not only is it the day when I met some lovely people and made some new friends. Twas the day when I heard some fantastic HiFi equipment and it reaffirmed just how good Lejonklou products sound.
Fredrik introduced himself to us, talking about his background, his ideal ology and thinking behind his products and how he tries his utmost to convey his message. There was a simple message in the corner of the room under the Lejonklou name. It read Music Music Music.
Our initial demonstration was using a fully maxed out Linn Klimax LP12, the new Lejonklou pre-amp (Sagatun- pronounced saa ga toon), and Lejonklou Tundra mono power amplifiers into Linn Akubariks. Linn silvers, stock power cables and Linn K200 speaker cable were the bits and bobs that connected it all up.
Fredrik’s initial demo was a crowded house track I’d not heard before. We were given a thirty second blast before the Sagatun was swapped out for a latest spec Linn Klimax Kontrol.
From the brief snippet it was plainly obvious which set up conveyed the most musicality and tunefulness. A second stint on both setups confirmed what I said after the initial hearing. The Sagatun having the ability to play the tune that was simply missing on the KK. This was most noticeable in the bassline. The Sagatun put across the musical message in a way the KK simply did not, it was foot tappingly good, the music flowing along beautifully, sounding both sweet and natural but never forced or too eager. Very tuneful.
The KK by comparison was a touch laboured, slothful almost and actually a little smooth and coloured. However although some people agreed with my observations, there were a few who were undecided. This to me only increased the high esteem in which Lejonklou products are held in my opinion. To have no opinion or to be unsure as to which was better, showed how close to the already well regarded Linn pre amplifier the Sagatun was.
Unfortunately what I didn’t particularly like was the negativity and defensive attitude of a couple of people who attended. I actually found this kind of attitude rather poor. To dismiss and so blatantly put down a product because they were trying to defend or justify their purchases. I personally felt this manner was clouding their view, and as a retailer who can’t sell these products, it looked like said person had decided they were poor and not worthy before the needle had even been lowered onto the vinyl. I really thought this did spoil the atmosphere a bit and I left the room for a while to make some refreshments and freshen up.
Then again could that just be a blunt yorkshireman on a hot day? Either way I can’t help but think twas a shame. Don’t worry Anthony, it wasn’t you mate. 
Eager to hear peoples thoughts whether he agreed or not and ask and answer any questions put to him no matter how challenging, Fredrik continued to demonstrate different combinations of source, pre and power amps, only the speakers stayed the same. The big secret that had been discussed previously was out now. Sagatun Mono Pre-amps.
I may be right in saying that this is where Fredrik struggled with a particular issue that was spoiling the sound? For some reason the lovely sound so carefully tuned the previous evening had disappeared somewhere! The culprit was found and ejected- a nasty rogue power lead. Normal service was resumed.
So onward to my favourite part of the day. And this had me hankering and lusting over things I really can’t afford. There were only a few of us left, Fred and Chris were chatting to Charlie1 and Paul and I were chatting in the demo room and I had the controls! Would it be Iron Maiden, AC/DC or even a bit of something really different? I opted for Ed Alleyne Johnson’s incredible purple violin concerto, a few tracks from the original pressing and a few from the anniversary edition.
By now the system had been left as a Klimax DS1, Dual Mono Sagatun pre amps and my little beauty Agnetha, my Tundra stereo driving the passive Akubariks. This set up simply blew my socks off and was the highlight of my day. Not only did it show how great Sagatun monos can be, it showed how bleeding incredible the stereo Tundra is. Yes. INCREDIBLE.
I’d only previously heard Active Akubariks in Yorkshire and wasn’t particularly impressed. The fact that the on board amps technically are more Majik than Akurate didn’t sit too well with me. This along with the fact that they weren’t really that loud and I’d definitely heard distortion via KK at volume 75 and above depending on the recording etc. had me thinking they were totally different speakers.
From the driving pomp of Muse and the resistance to the aforementioned Ed Alleyne, the Linn / Leklonjou combo was loud, clean, musical, powerful and above all tuneful. Hard to believe that little Swedish marvel was driving those speakers so efficiently and so impressively. Paul leant across at one point and said, ‘that sounds better than my solos’. Unbiased praise indeed. I couldn’t stop grinning. This particular Linn/Lejonklou combination certainly matched very well indeed, as I wasn’t expecting a single Tundra to impress with passive Akubariks like this.
By the time Charlie1 off the forum arrived I’d heard all kinds of combinations, I stayed for a while to listen to Fredrik again, from the introduction through to the demo and I was pleased to hear Charlie1 speak with an honest ,open and balanced opinion, on occasions he preferred the Sagatun, some he wasn’t sure, maybe once he even may have preferred the KK, but one word he said describing the KK stuck with me and that’s sluggish. I’m pretty sure Charlie1 will be posting here if he hasn’t already so naturally I’ll look forward to hearing from him and his findings.
Live with Sagatun for a week, whether it’s one or two, but go back to a KK afterwards and I think you’ll be surprised. I do like Linn equipment, don’t get me wrong. It’s beautifully designed and researched, built in the UK and integrates well with their system tier and for streaming I don’t think they can be beaten and for many people it’s almost a religion and they’ll defend it to the hilt. The thing is you see………Fredrik’s equipment IS better.
The Lad from Sweden has done it again.
MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC
That’s all there was.
And that is why it was under his logo.
A huge Thank you to Chris and Fredrik.
And finally it was nice to meet Paul, Simon (lol, no he wasn’t there), Charlie1 and Anthony especially and everyone else I spoke to, sorry I’m a bit rubbish remembering names.
Ozzzy.
Last edited by Ozzzy189 on 2014-05-20 00:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Rufus McDufus »

Great post!
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Post by Charlie1 »

Hi Ozzzy,

Yes, I really enjoyed my brief time at Hidden Systems. It was great to finally meet and chat to you, and Chris also. Everyone was very friendly. Shame I couldn't stay longer and join you for a few beers afterwards.

I agree that Fredrik has created a very fine musical product. I can't quite believe what one man has accomplished. I know this is far from the first Lejonklou product, but it just seems remarkable to me. And I'm sure I don't even appreciate half the work and effort that has gone into this.

I also agree that the Sagatun sounded great with the Tundra stereo and Akubariks. I too was struck by the tuneful bass lines it created, amongst other strengths. I thought the KK1 sounded a bit synthetic by comparison. Like you, I thought it also sounded a little flat and docile. The Sagatun sounded more alive with more vitality.

But, like you say, it wasn't 100% clear cut for me. During the 2nd and 3rd tune dem's, I started to realise the musicians were slightly more in-sync with one another when played through the KK1, and I found it a bit easier to follow the performance as a whole. Having said that, we had enough time left for a brief listen to the Sagatun Monos (using correct mains leads) and I felt they were clearly superior to the Stereo version, in this regard, so even more potential there.

The Sagatun Stereo is obviously a very musical pre-amp and I very much enjoyed the music it made, along with your nicely run-in Tundra Stereo 1.2 Ozzzy! Chris has a good dem room there too.

Anyway, a great achievement for Lejonklou HiFi!

...and many thanks to Chris for his hospitality!
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Post by HIDDENSYSTEMS »

Ozzzy and Charlie1, great to see you both and pleased that I waited to see your views of the day before I posted. It was great fun but scary watching Fredrik dance with my Kandid bouncing hence the last minute wall shelf erection. I have received lots of feedback but wanted to add in no real order;

For me both the Stereo & Mono Sagatuns have a certain lack of "not hearing transistors ie. the close to the music. Ozzzy's Tundra Stereo is awesome and thanks for the loan having sold my last demo unit and to drive Akubariks well was a statement. We could of used plenty of other speakers throughout the day but too many changes. In addition,

1. The Sagatun Mono's were new to Fredrik - only a few days old - more performance to follow ? and could be that dip that electronics go through during burn in.
2. Fredrik should of used my long linn silvers beautifully soldered by me and not linn blacks but later swapped :-)
3. Sorry about the duff random mains lead that was inserted when we tried dual Radikals.
4. Playing The Blue Nile 1st LP was just incredible towards the end of the day.
5. The reason my passive Akubariks sound so good is that the AnthemAV rep leant me Statement M1 Monoblocks, left the room and gave them a good trash once they had done 200 hrs. Most Linn speakers inc. 242s were never fully run in and just sat in dealers as not great out the box.

Here are some pictures of product - don't look if you are planning to go to the next event. http://hiddensystems.co.uk/hi-fi/hi-fi- ... u/sagatun/

HiddenSystems Twitter account @hiddensystems has a mug shot inc. Ozzzy

If you get a chance to visit Fredrik on the next stop of his world tour I would, Fredrik deserves praise for the product development in his words is thanks to Linn for opening up what is possible out there #itsallpossible

Looking forward to hearing other experiences. Music Music Music

Chris
http://www.hiddensystems.co.uk
Lejonklou | Linn | Naim | Devialet | Rega | Totem | |Kudos
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Post by u252agz »

Ozzzy,

I was the chap sitting to your right for the first 45 mins or so. Thanks for the detailed, enthusiastic and entertaining post - no point even trying to compete.

Great session organised by Chris and Fredrik - thanks to both of them and its a shame i had to leave so soon.

Impressions - Another fantastic product from Fredrik. I only listened to the two tracks of his house music / rock which is not my thing but it sounded really great. I thought the monos were better even though they were not run in and are just off the production line.

With Fredriks and Linn products we now have an embarrassment of riches at different price points and should consider ourselves extremely fortunate.

The Tundra stereo and Monos are staggeringly good and the Gaio is an unbelievably quality product. The Sagatun is clearly cut from the same cloth and may prove to be even more of a landmark product for Fredrik.

How he does this I cannot imagine. One thing designing and proving concepts - difficult enough one would think: but quite something else to manufacture and distribute on an international scale. And to a highly critical and demanding bunch of audiophiles.

The only thing i have to add is that with my relative inexperience with all this ( 12 months of upgrading sneaky/ lk140s/ ninjas) - one thing I have learned is that advice from people with highly tuned ears such as Frederik, Anthony and Chris is absolutely priceless.

Thanks once again to everyone for a very entertaining visit.
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7

Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e

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Post by Ozzzy189 »

I have started a Lejonklou owners thread over on AVForums.com if anyone's interested. http://www.avforums.com/index.php?threads/1880780/
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Post by MisterH »

Ozzzy

Do you have the nerve and thick enough skin to start a similar thread on HiFi Wigwam ?

I'm not sure what sort of reception it would receive, certainly it would be dismissed out of hand if it was Linn, but even my die hard Linn hating neighbour likes my Tundra
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Post by Rufus McDufus »

Hifiwigwam is troll city. I give up on it for months on end. Even the site owner gets in on it! whatsbestforum might be a good one.
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Post by matthias »

Rufus McDufus wrote:whatsbestforum might be a good one.
+1

KR
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Post by lejonklou »

Hi everyone!

Thank you for all your comments! I promise to soon write some more about Sagatun and Sagatun Mono.

Right now I'm packing for Tonläget in Gothenburg, Sweden. Hope to meet a bunch of you there tomorrow evening!
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Post by jlwdm »

Fredrik,

Looking forward to your comments. So far I have not been able to glean much from the comments about Saturday.

Jeff
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Post by macrotech2 »

One thing I was going to ask is, is there a remote code which will switch directly to a given input, rather than having to cycle through them? This is very useful for those of us using Harmony remotes to make life easier for the family!
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Post by ThomasOK »

jlwdm wrote:Fredrik,

Looking forward to your comments. So far I have not been able to glean much from the comments about Saturday.

Jeff
Do you mean you are wanting to know more about the physical capabilities of the units or the musical qualities?
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Post by lejonklou »

macrotech2 wrote:One thing I was going to ask is, is there a remote code which will switch directly to a given input, rather than having to cycle through them? This is very useful for those of us using Harmony remotes to make life easier for the family!
Yes!

Phono, CD, TUN and AUX on the remote selects 1, 2, 3 and 4.
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Post by macrotech2 »

Thanks. That's good news!
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Post by jlwdm »

ThomasOK wrote:
Do you mean you are wanting to know more about the physical capabilities of the units or the musical qualities?
Probably asking for too much; but musical qualities.

I think things were complicated by having the mono preamps. Too many different comparisons. It would have been nice to see more straight comparisons of Sagatun to KK.

Comments seem fairly mixed.

Jeff
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Post by CJ1045 »

Crucially how much does it cost. Can't spot this in the reviews. Fairly important I would have thought.

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Post by macrotech2 »

£3000 for the stereo and £6000 for the monos were the figures mentioned on Saturday.
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Post by sunbeamgls »

Ozzy, thanks for the detailed write up.

Just one question for you - is it possible that some people prefer the KK? Is that something that you agree is possible or do you think that anyone who prefers the KK is just being dogmatic about the brand and their investment?
KSH/0; KEBox/2; 3x Tundra Stereo 2.5; PMC fact.12. Blogger. Exakt Design. SO measuring.
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Post by Ozzzy189 »

sunbeamgls wrote:Ozzy, thanks for the detailed write up.

Just one question for you - is it possible that some people prefer the KK? Is that something that you agree is possible or do you think that anyone who prefers the KK is just being dogmatic about the brand and their investment?
Hi Neil.
Yes, probably a bit of both there. There's quite a few people who seem to have their head either in the sand or elsewhere for that matter. So, although I certainly did hear a few people say they preferred the KK, I could've pointed out who they were before the demo had even begun. The genuine folk will admit fredrik has made a superb product, but still may prefer kk, some were on the fence undecided. It's not until you hear them together that you hear the KK actually is, well to me anyway a touch coloured a a tiny bit sluggish almost. I do not have a problem with anyone preferring either product, we're all different, but I did struggle to understand certain reactions last week.
I'd really like to hear your views on sagatun in your system. I'm confident that you'd be pleasantly surprised by how well Fred's products integrate into a Linn system.
I'm still reeling from how well my tundra drove the akubariks and how fantastic it sounded as a system with mono sagatuns. That was the highlight of the day for me was that system. The kds1 is a stunning digital source too, and that LP12 had me wanting to go out and buy a turntable! Maybe not at that level though unfortunately.
Cheers for posting.
Daniel
Last edited by Ozzzy189 on 2014-05-25 11:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Ozzzy189 »

neilh wrote:Ozzzy

Do you have the nerve and thick enough skin to start a similar thread on HiFi Wigwam ?

I'm not sure what sort of reception it would receive, certainly it would be dismissed out of hand if it was Linn, but even my die hard Linn hating neighbour likes my Tundra
Was thinking of a thread on the linn forum....
Lol, only kidding.
There's no need, once enough people hear these amps they'll be in higher demand, it's always going to be a big ask, a small company up against well established brands. I only started the avf thread to try and get a few people to post there, a few system pics etc wouldn't go amiss. I hope Lejonklou gets more exposure, Fredrik certainly deserves it for all the hard work and long hours he's put in.
I knew when I first heard Lejonklou products a couple of years back that they were something special. That they'll continue to evolve and develop as the years go by is brilliant. By having the ability to improve and upgrade the product over the years is a fantastic way to go about things and helps keep things fresh and ensures they sound as good as they possibly can within the confines of the product itself.
Exciting times I think, I'm pretty sure I'm heading for a Lejonklou sandwich with a slice of Linn at each end :-D
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Post by Rufus McDufus »

I think one issue that potentially is a hindrance to Lejonklou now to the some of the wider hi-fi community is the tie-in with Linn. It started as something that would mainly appeal to Linn owners - an alternative, yes at lower prices but also in many people's eyes (ears?) better. Sagatun goes some way towards removing this link. There's now a great pre and power amp combo. Couple it with a speaker like the Klångedang T1 or something bigger, then you only have to find a different source & cables to be totally non Linn. I may well be the only one seeing this link, and I realise almost all Linn components are loved by Lejonklou owners, but when you start talking about Hifiwigwam and other forums and the anti-Linn prejudice, it could help to get some clear air between the two brands.
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Post by Ozzzy189 »

I certainly agree with you RmD. I think the year after this is a big one for Lejonklou. With sagatun more doors open and more opportunities will arise, certainly the blocks are there to now build a system around Lejonklou, rather than fit them in.
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Post by MisterH »

I too am in agreement, it seems that Linn owners/followers are the only ones aware of the products, there doesn't seem to be any outside awareness from the rest of the HiFi community.

Or if there is I haven't seen evidence of it.

Ozzzy you need to spread the word further afield ! Only kidding you do a great PR job for Frederik and his products
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Post by ThomasOK »

I believe there will likely always be some link between the two brands as both have been designed using the tune method (although Linn appears to be straying a bit from that with products like Exakt). However, Fredrik has been working on separating Lejonklou HiFi from Linn in people's minds for a while. The move away from "K" names with Tundra, Gaio and Sagatun is part of that. But moving from filling perceived holes in the Linn line to competing directly against them and becoming a full line manufacturer is a bigger one.

On the other hand I don't think Lejonklou have to strive to be totally free of Linn. For one thing, there are many companies that only make electronics or only make speakers or only make turntables and arms. Indeed there are very few manufacturers who make complete systems from sources to speakers, much fewer yet where a turntable is one of the sources and very few who make all of the pieces very well (maybe two?).

Because of that it is very common in the wider world for systems to be mix and match. Looking at the Linn forum you can find that to many people Linn is still what they started out as - a source company. Lots of people have Linn sources with systems of components and speakers from other companies - their excellent DS products have helped solidify that standing as have their rather mixed speaker lineups.

It is true that there are a lot of people who have all Linn systems or all Linn except for the speakers. That is mainly because, for really musical performance, there have been few true alternatives. But now there is another one and Lejonklou HiFi just keeps going from strength to strength. You only have to look at Naim to see a company that has been successful while still relying, to some degree, on the LP12. I really don't see there being any problem with Lejonklou doing the same. As the line continues to grow and we see even more breakthrough products I think you will see more people talking in the future about their Lejonklou systems.
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