Sagatun premiere 17th May

clasch66 · Post by **clasch66** » 2014-05-17 18:05

Live Stream? ;-)

mrco99 · Post by **mrco99** » 2014-05-17 20:18

Afterstream perhaps ??

;-)

CJ1045 · Post by **CJ1045** » 2014-05-17 22:29

Maybe it broke

CJ

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2014-05-17 22:55

Just relax, Fredrik going to present the news when the time is right.

u252agz · Post by **u252agz** » 2014-05-17 23:19

Thanks to Chris for arranging the demo and well done again Fredrick for a remarkable product.

From the brief listen with lp12 /Fredriks two albums, I preferred the sagatun to the KK.

Compared to the sagatun, the surprise was even better.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-05-18 00:12

Sorry for posting so late, but I just sat down after a loong day of demos and talks. Thanks to Chris and everyone who attended - especially Ozzzy with girlfriend driving a long way and bringing his Tundra stereo no 13 for us to use!

The day started a bit weird, as I didn't think it sounded right, but gradually it became really good sounding and by the end of the day it was great! Late in the afternoon, I discovered that one of the surprise units (details below!) had a funny short power cord of the wrong brand, which sounded really awful. Once I removed that, comparisons started making sense.

Ok... The secret is that in addition to the stereo preamp Sagatun, there is also soon a Sagatun Mono being released. Similar to the power amps, it has only one channel. Same number of inputs (four plus one direct which is always on), but only one channel. For stereo, you need two.

All Sagatuns can be linked together with an optical link, that makes them in synch in terms of input, volume etc. This is necessary to make the Mono's practical to use, but also makes it possible to set up an entire 7.1 system (or any number of channels for that matter) using Sagatun's.

More later! Chris said he'll post a link with pictures in the morning.

Rufus McDufus · Post by **Rufus McDufus** » 2014-05-18 00:20

Rufus McDufus · Post by **Rufus McDufus** » 2014-05-18 00:22

This begs one logical step - Sagatun Mono integrated? ;)

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2014-05-18 00:36

lejonklou wrote:Ok... The secret is that in addition to the stereo preamp Sagatun, there is also soon a Sagatun Mono being released. Similar to the power amps, it has only one channel. Same number of inputs (four plus one direct which is always on), but only one channel. For stereo, you need two.

All Sagatuns can be linked together with an optical link, that makes them in synch in terms of input, volume etc. This is necessary to make the Mono's practical to use, but also makes it possible to set up an entire 7.1 system (or any number of channels for that matter) using Sagatun's.

Wow! Sounds very interesting indeed. I guess that I'd need six of them for a 5.1 system, which might be a touch expensive, but it's an intriguing idea.

Actually, would I be able to get away with three Sagatuns rather than six Sagatun Monos? (or maybe a pair of Sagatun Monos for the fronts and two Sagatuns for the centre/sub and rears?)

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-05-18 01:22

Jane and I just wanted to say a HUGE thank you to Fredrik and Chris for all their efforts over the past two days. I've had the most amazing time and made some new friends in the process.
I'll post my honest thoughts upon my return to East Yorkshire, but needless to say this new pre-amplifier is bloody fantastic.

clasch66 · Post by **clasch66** » 2014-05-18 07:34

Ha, interesting!

Had the concept of a mono pre already been realized before by any company?

Cheers Claus

Rufus McDufus · Post by **Rufus McDufus** » 2014-05-18 09:55

The use of an optical link between mono pre-amps sounds like a great idea from an electrical isolation perspective.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-05-18 10:00

Yes, there was at least one monoblock preamp before. Pass Labs previous top preamp, the XP30 had 3 chassis and sold for $16,500. One case was for each channel and the control electronics and power supply where in the third case. That has now been replaced by the new XS which is down to two chassis but it looks like one has two cases bolted together and they say it is still monoblock.

Going further back it was commonplace to use two mono preamplifier in the early days of stereo (late 50s and early 60s for you youngsters ;-). You just had to get good at turning two knobs simultaneously. Some companies, I think Marantz was one, came out with a stereo volume control to tie two mono preamps together. End history lesson. :-)

In answer to rowlandhills, you can mix and match as desired for multichannel. So three Sagatun will support a 5.1 channel system or, as suggested, two Sagatun Mono and two Sagatun for even better stereo reproduction. Fredrik told me he will be testing a 7.1 system at a friend's house with four Sagatun Mono and two Sagatun. That should be very interesting.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-05-18 10:09

Rufus McDufus wrote:The use of an optical link between mono pre-amps sounds like a great idea from an electrical isolation perspective.

Yes, Fredrik originally tried a wired comm link but there was a musical loss when the connection was made. The optical link fixes that.

With Sagatun Mono and Tundra Mono you have totally separate grounds for each channel throughout the amplification chain. I am itching to try two Slipsiks into that setup as you would have separate grounds all the way from the cartridge through to the speakers. I have to wonder how that would improve the sound. We might have to try that when Fredrik is here for our musical evening.

mrco99 · Post by **mrco99** » 2014-05-18 12:37

Congrats Fredrik on what seems like a very good presentation and product launch of your new Sagatun preamp.
Indeed I wouldn't have thought of a mono preamp at all.

Would this optical connection output also be usable as a 'lossless' future headphone out if you were able to built such a stage for it?

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-05-19 16:37

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2302

HIDDENSYSTEMS · Post by **HIDDENSYSTEMS** » 2014-05-22 07:21

I heard that the Swedish Sagatun launch went well yesterday and that Fredrik was very happy with how they sounded. Looking forward to reading feedback...

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2014-05-22 15:10

A quick report then...
Sagatun Mono's are very very good!
So good that the difference between Sagatun Stereo and KK was more or less irrelevant.
I normally preferred Sagatun Stereo over KK but on one tune it was the opposite.
But who cares...as the relative performance differences between them was small compared to the big difference up to the Monos.
I'm seriously impressed!

And they are not fully developed yet, more to come I'm sure!

Linnofil · Post by **Linnofil** » 2014-05-22 17:41

It was a very interesting evening. Thanks to Fredrik for developing the product and coming to Tonläget to present it. The Sagatun is better than the Klimax Kontrol on tunes, but some preferred the Kontrol for it’s more formal sound (I didn’t). The two preamps where relatively close to one another, compared to the big leap that was observed when the Mono version was presented. The music was so much improved it made some songs jump from very boring, slightly annoying to very good and interesting. I was very impressed, this is the new reference preamp(s)! I really like the interface as well.

The demo was conducted with Klångedang T1 and on Mimer 3 shelves. There was also a brief demo of Mimer 3 vs. Mimer K shelves in the Harmonihyllan rack. What an impressive difference! Talk about a reference rack, amazing. The difference was on the same level as Sagatun Mono vs Stereo, that is not a small difference! I wish you all could here what an superb rack the Harmonihyllan is.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » 2014-05-22 18:01

As always a pleasure to meet Fredrik and he held an excellent demo.

For me it was quite clear that KK was better than Sagatun Stereo but it's not that much behind. Might very well beat everything else Linn has produced.

Sagatun Mono was another story, far better than Stereo! Staggering preamp. I didn't hear anything really that would make me claim that KK was doing things more right. Still... Linns Klimax products are for me the reference, they do everything right. Mono's have a somewhat different musical presentation to KK so I'm still slightly puzzled here. I would have liked to do the same comparisons with Linn poweramps, maybe Linn speakers as well (aktive Akubariks would have been nice) but Klångedangs are certainly more than good enough for comparing products at this level.

Value for money is another matter. Sagatun Stereo isn't that much more than you paid for a new Exotik (non-DA) in its day. It's significantly cheaper than AK/1. This, one have to bear in mind. No doubt these are Lejonklou's best products to date. Well done Fredrik!

Erik · Post by **Erik** » 2014-05-22 18:26

I'm following your comments with interest. As you all know, I was blown away by the Sagatun and for me it was well ahead of the Klimax Kontrol. I almost found the KK a little colored in a soft way. A little too polite. I had both preamps side by side for a week so a lot of music were played.

I'm very eager to hear the Mono version.

/Erik

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-05-22 19:42

Erik wrote:I'm following your comments with interest. As you all know, I was blown away by the Sagatun and for me it was well ahead of the Klimax Kontrol. I almost found the KK a little colored in a soft way. A little too polite. I had both preamps side by side for a week so a lot of music were played.

I'm very eager to hear the Mono version.

/Erik

That's what i heard too, it was very easy to come to this conclusion in my opinion. I found KK almost slow and a little bit boring, if you like your music like that then fine. i don't.
The good thing is, we're all different, so no one is right, and no one is wrong.
Happy listening !
Oz

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2014-05-22 19:57

Ozzzy189 wrote:
Erik wrote:I'm following your comments with interest. As you all know, I was blown away by the Sagatun and for me it was well ahead of the Klimax Kontrol. I almost found the KK a little colored in a soft way. A little too polite. I had both preamps side by side for a week so a lot of music were played.

I'm very eager to hear the Mono version.

/Erik
That's what i heard too, it was very easy to come to this conclusion in my opinion. I found KK almost slow and a little bit boring, if you like your music like that then fine. i don't.
The good thing is, we're all different, so no one is right, and no one is wrong.
Happy listening !
Oz

Hi Oz,

I realise you wouldn't have been able to compare them within your own system in your own home, but would you care to venture thoughts on difference between your Exotik vs Sagatun (with Agnetha :)?
I know the KK is a good step up from the Exotik, and that the demo Akubariks are quite different to your 109s - I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on pre-amp comparison to your own system now that you are home? I ask because I have an AK/0d, while demo comparisons are appropriately vs KK. Thanks.

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-05-22 20:21

tokenbrit wrote:
Ozzzy189 wrote:
Erik wrote:I'm following your comments with interest. As you all know, I was blown away by the Sagatun and for me it was well ahead of the Klimax Kontrol. I almost found the KK a little colored in a soft way. A little too polite. I had both preamps side by side for a week so a lot of music were played.

I'm very eager to hear the Mono version.

/Erik
That's what i heard too, it was very easy to come to this conclusion in my opinion. I found KK almost slow and a little bit boring, if you like your music like that then fine. i don't.
The good thing is, we're all different, so no one is right, and no one is wrong.
Happy listening !
Oz
Hi Oz,

I realise you wouldn't have been able to compare them within your own system in your own home, but would you care to venture thoughts on difference between your Exotik vs Sagatun (with Agnetha :)?
I know the KK is a good step up from the Exotik, and that the demo Akubariks are quite different to your 109s - I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on pre-amp comparison to your own system now that you are home? I ask because I have an AK/0d, while demo comparisons are appropriately vs KK. Thanks.

Hi no worries,
hopefully i'll be able to compare the exotik/KK/Sagatun as soon as one is available. I will of course post my opinion, and not everyone will agree i'm sure, but i trust my ears and what i hear in my own home. Thanks, Ozzzy.

Efraim roots · Post by **Efraim roots** » 2014-05-22 21:51

I really liked what I heard at the demo, Sagatun are very good preamps for sure. I couldn’t say if Sagatun or Klimax Kontrol was the better preamp, my conclusion was that they where at a very similar level but excel in different areas of the musical spectrum. I felt Sagatun was better at stuff like phrasing and musical tempo, Kontrol had a more melodious presentation and some advantages in that area, to my ears.

When the Sagatun Monos where used I just felt ”YES” this is good! No more analysing was happening in my head. Let the music play! Sagatun Mono had every trait a top a top preamp should have. Clearly better than Klimax Kontrol, no doubt. And even the Mono version is a rough 65% of the price of Kontrol. Respect to Lejonklou!