Forum issues are discussed here

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WheresMyNaim
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by WheresMyNaim »

Fredrik,

I urge you to remove the preceding post.

RTM makes 1 correct point. Your forum rules omit any reference to slander or defamation. Your rules, your forum but perhaps a RTM amendment is necessary as this absurd behavior continues.

RTM's recently deleted posts were guilty of slander and defamation.

I own multiple Linn products. I have not dissed Linn at all, why would I? I have no Lejonklou products (as yet) but have never dissed your products or the Hakai.

The forum seems focused,for some,on a malicious Tune Dem™ witch hunt. The forum is for audiophiles with common objectives. Or did I miss something?
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by donuk »

Guys, guys, you are in danger of spilling some beer........

The real problem is that everyone is frustrated with covid at the moment, and all forums perhaps gain more importance than they normally would.

Views tend to become more extreme and politeness evaporates.

Let's not ban people, just be a bit kinder with our criticisms and towards each other.....

Donuk beautiful downtown York
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Re: Linn Nexus LS250 Revisted

Post by beck »

donuk wrote: 2020-11-03 09:33 Guys, guys, you are in danger of spilling some beer........

The real problem is that everyone is frustrated with covid at the moment, and all forums perhaps gain more importance than they normally would.

Views tend to become more extreme and politeness evaporates.

Let's not ban people, just be a bit kinder with our criticisms and towards each other.....

Donuk beautiful downtown York
I agree......


To those who still have doubts about how to behave on a forum like this I have the following guidelines I use myself when in doubt:

Do not tell others what to think, tell what you think

Focus on the subject, not the person

Treat others like you wish to be treated

No single person knows the whole truth, concentrate on what you know

Share your findings and expect others to have different findings than yours


In random order and you can continue the list.............


........or just read the forum rules and act accordingly! :-)
Playing cd’s…………
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lejonklou
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by lejonklou »

Gentlemen,
the above four posts were moved here (and partly shortened) from a different thread, because their focus is on forum issues.
Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-11-03 00:03 You have deleted several of my posts in recent months. NONE have violated this Forum's spirit.
Yes Ron, they have. Quote from the rules: "The spirit of this forum is one of curiosity, respect and friendly, productive participation." What you did was to fight. Therefore several posts by you and WMN were deleted.
Ron The Mon wrote: 2020-11-03 00:03 Especially when the same liar has multiple accounts here.
If you suspect or have evidence of members having multiple accounts on this forum, I ask you to please inform me by email or pm. A forum post is not the way to go about it. I have had several such reports sent to me in the past and I appreciate them. So far there has been no evidence of multiple accounts.
WheresMyNaim wrote: 2020-11-03 01:47 The forum seems focused,for some,on a malicious Tune Dem™ witch hunt. The forum is for audiophiles with common objectives. Or did I miss something?
Yes, apparently you missed the following:
"On this forum, we evaluate the quality of music reproduction with a comparative listening method called the Tune Method. The advantage of everyone using the same method is that it allows us to collect and share information that is valid to everyone. A recommended "Best Buy!" from a forum member is much more than a purely subjective opinion on sound - it is a highly valued tip of where to find equipment capable of involving the listener in the music being played.

If you do not agree with the validity of the Tune Method OR regard a different method of evalutation as more important or valid, this forum is not for you.

If you would like to know more about the Tune Method, look here: http://www.lejonklou.com/wp-content/upl ... Method.pdf"

What this means is that the Tune Method is not to be questioned in here. You have repeatedly done so and this was the last time. Next time you're out.
donuk wrote: 2020-11-03 09:33 The real problem is that everyone is frustrated with covid at the moment, and all forums perhaps gain more importance than they normally would.
Thank you Don, I was thinking exactly the same. And in addition lots of tension around the election in the United States.
beck wrote: 2020-11-03 11:07 Do not tell others what to think, tell what you think

Focus on the subject, not the person

Treat others like you wish to be treated

No single person knows the whole truth, concentrate on what you know

Share your findings and expect others to have different findings than yours
Thank you Beck! Well worth considering before posting.
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by lejonklou »

Major downtime 2020-11-04

I had some problems, but now I think I've fixed them. Please report any problems you might find!
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by springwood64 »

Looks like the forum 'breadcrumb' links at the top are broken: Here it says "Home < Board Index < < "
Pete

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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by donuk »

Any final decision about a Music category, Mr L?

It would be useful in the stay-at-home-days.

I know that this group has some really special musical tastes, which at the moment we have to share on the same category as internal modifications.

As I said before I would happily help with moderation and suggest some ground rules.

Donuk
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by lejonklou »

Thank you Pete! I've found some other things as well. The drop down menu to reply etc appears broken.

Sorry Don, but at the moment I have to put the overall functionality first. Later there might be a revision of the subforums.
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by lejonklou »

Fixed a bunch of minor issues, but the breadcrumb error unfortunately remains.

We might have to live with it like this for a while, until I find a fix.
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by lejonklou »

Apologies for the downtime this Monday evening and early night!

A new problem appeared - the forum lost all its styles, which makes it unreadable (just text and no formatting). Turned out I made an error during the update last week, which made phpBB confused. Now I believe I've solved it properly. "Breadcrumb links" have been repaired as well.

Unfortunately with this latest upgrade (which was necessary for the forum to continue working) we lost a lot of small fixes and adaptations, for instance to small screen sizes. None of those tweaks were compatible with the new forum version.

Therefore I'm thankful for your input. If there are things, items or features that you're missing, please report them below and perhaps I can do something about it.
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by springwood64 »

I've tested it on a number of small screen layouts (using Chrome developer) and I could see no problems. Looks good.
Pete

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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by macrotech2 »

Since the update I have to login every visit despite selecting Remember Me. Are others affected by this?
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by OscarH »

macrotech2 wrote: 2020-11-14 09:51 Since the update I have to login every visit despite selecting Remember Me. Are others affected by this?
It happened once yesterday, but not every time.
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by springwood64 »

I have not had to log in again. Try clearing all your browser cookies. I'm using Chrome on pc and mobile.
Pete

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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by Spannko »

Particularly over the last 12 months, this forum appears to have been the target of deliberate attempts to push on the boundaries of the rules which make this the most helpful forum on the internet. The value of threads is being diluted by prolonged, unsubstantiated claims which are on the verge of believability. Like most regular posters, I’m interested in learning from others and sharing my experiences. What differentiates the new breed of posters (I’m reluctant to call them Trolls, even if their behaviour fits the description well) is that they prefer to tell, rather than share, provide no supporting evidence, don’t engage in open discussion, and if challenged, respond somewhat aggressively. It doesn’t make a good read tbh.

The purpose of bringing this up is to see if I’m the only one who feels this way and if not, talk about ways in which the problem can be solved.
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by ThomasOK »

I'd say you hit the nail on the head, Spannko. This "I'm right and you're wrong", often with the insinuation that you are an idiot if you don't agree, gets quite tiring. In my opinion, even Ron, who is a friend of mine and has posted a fair bit of useful information, could use to tone down the attitude a bit. I'm sure that the world situation now with the COVID-19 pandemic and lots of us being shut in isn't helping, as people are looking for something to do and are in general frustrated. But that is no reason to not be kind to each other and to not abide by forum rules.
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by markiteight »

Spannko wrote: 2020-11-28 11:37 Particularly over the last 12 months, this forum appears to have been the target of deliberate attempts to push on the boundaries of the rules which make this the most helpful forum on the internet. The value of threads is being diluted by prolonged, unsubstantiated claims which are on the verge of believability. Like most regular posters, I’m interested in learning from others and sharing my experiences. What differentiates the new breed of posters (I’m reluctant to call them Trolls, even if their behaviour fits the description well) is that they prefer to tell, rather than share, provide no supporting evidence, don’t engage in open discussion, and if challenged, respond somewhat aggressively. It doesn’t make a good read tbh.

The purpose of bringing this up is to see if I’m the only one who feels this way and if not, talk about ways in which the problem can be solved.
You can rest assured you are not alone, Spannko! I am in agreement with everything you and Thomas wrote. For years this forum has been my favorite little corner of the internet, delightfully free of the ego/attitude/immaturity that exists everywhere people have the opportunity to post their thoughts. The signal-to-noise ratio here is the best on the web! The atmosphere of colaboration, mutual curiosity, exploration, helping, and learning is nothing short of phenomenal.

Without access to the forum stats this is pure speculation, but I suspect the forum's memebership count has been steadily increasing, and with it the noise will inevitably increase as well. I'm at a loss as to a simple, effective solution to reducing the noise without adversely affecting the signal (Dolby Forum?). Perhaps in the mean time increased moderation is the solution. Years ago there was a second moderator here, but I haven't seen any activity from that member in quite a long time. They occasionally took a fairly heavy handed approach to moderation but I imagine if they were still here there would be no need for this conversation! At the risk of being presumptuous, I suspect Fredrik is not interested in dedicating too much time dealing with forum issues, preferring instead to focus on the business and product development. I get the impression that lately he is spending more and more of his finite forum time babysitting, and less time contributing. It may be time to bring back another moderator who Fredrik can trust to run things the way he wants and to keep us in line without muffling our voice.

(it occurred to me that Dolby may not have been the best analogy given it messes up the signal while reducing noise, but I'm keeping it because the concept of a button in the forum settings that the moderator could activate to instantly eliminate ego/attitude/immaturity is an appealing concept!)
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by ThomasOK »

Man, I could have used one of those buttons about 4 years ago!
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by markiteight »

ThomasOK wrote: 2020-11-28 22:06 Man, I could have used one of those buttons about 4 years ago!
LOL. That took me a moment. Apparently I'm already moving on.

I don't think even Dolby S could dampen that much noise!
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by beck »

It is comments like the ones above and people like you guys (Spannko, ThomasOK and markiteight among many others) that makes it difficult to leave a forum like this.

We know that we are here with the same mindset and purpose. :-)
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by donuk »

It is interesting how both sides of the street seem to be shouting "you have become intolerant" for some time. And I am sure to some extent both sides have a point.

As somebody who consciously does not rely on tunedem to make decisions, I have been on the edge of this forum for years. Perhaps some tolerate me, others might want me banned. I frequently expect it.

Yes this forum has rules and is entitled to. But where do Lejonklou owners go, who through an unfortunate act of nature, do not use tunedem?

How do the majority of the world's hifi enthusiasts manage to evaluate the sound without ever heard the word of the esteemed mechanical engineer from Scotland?

Interestingly I wrote last evening to ThomasOK, a PM, saying I was concerned about attitudes here.

On a hobby forum, I hate being told I am absolutely wrong. I don't mind being gently told I may have misunderstood things.

This forum will get what it seeks. I think it need a healthy dialogue where different points of views will be tolerated very amicably. Tunedem is clearly not the only route to heaven, but it is a good one. If it is indeed any good it will survive criticism and being ignored. A bit like a good religion.

I rarely contribute to other forums. When somebody requires some info I usually reply by PM. The other forums with few exceptions shout at each other too much for my liking.

So chaps, my view is, unless you want a forum where kindred spirits are simply patting each other on the back, everyone needs to change. All criticism needs to be kinder, and all views listened to. At least, not just barked at because they are wrong from which ever side of the street.

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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by V.A.MKD »

Spannko wrote: 2020-11-28 11:37 Particularly over the last 12 months, this forum appears to have been the target of deliberate attempts to push on the boundaries of the rules which make this the most helpful forum on the internet. The value of threads is being diluted by prolonged, unsubstantiated claims which are on the verge of believability. Like most regular posters, I’m interested in learning from others and sharing my experiences. What differentiates the new breed of posters (I’m reluctant to call them Trolls, even if their behaviour fits the description well) is that they prefer to tell, rather than share, provide no supporting evidence, don’t engage in open discussion, and if challenged, respond somewhat aggressively. It doesn’t make a good read tbh.

The purpose of bringing this up is to see if I’m the only one who feels this way and if not, talk about ways in which the problem can be solved.
+1, 100%.
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by V.A.MKD »

beck wrote: 2020-11-29 10:10 It is comments like the ones above and people like you guys (Spannko, ThomasOK and markiteight among many others) that makes it difficult to leave a forum like this.

We know that we are here with the same mindset and purpose. :-)
+1, absolutely ...
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by V.A.MKD »

ThomasOK wrote: 2020-11-28 16:59 I'd say you hit the nail on the head, Spannko. This "I'm right and you're wrong", often with the insinuation that you are an idiot if you don't agree, gets quite tiring. In my opinion, even Ron, who is a friend of mine and has posted a fair bit of useful information, could use to tone down the attitude a bit. I'm sure that the world situation now with the COVID-19 pandemic and lots of us being shut in isn't helping, as people are looking for something to do and are in general frustrated. But that is no reason to not be kind to each other and to not abide by forum rules.
Yes ThomasOK, as usual, at the center of the target ...
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Re: Forum issues are discussed here

Post by Spannko »

I’ve been giving this a bit more thought over night. There definitely seems to be a problem which needs addressing, but what should be done?

It may be helpful to look at what research suggests is needed in order for social groups to work effectively.

Social groups are made up of 3 or more people
who:
• depend on each other in some way
• have their own rules, procedures and shared ideas
• are small enough for people to know something about each other
• have a shared goal
(based on Sprott, 1952 and Douglas, 1976 cited in OU, 2014


All pretty simple then, and probably isn’t new to most of us.

The problem appears to be what to do when people deliberately behave in opposition to these requirements? I guess that if we asked 10 people, we’d get 10 different answers!

My preferred approach would be to immediately remove any post which breaks the rules (without discussion) and send the poster a standardised PM describing why their post has been removed, together with a copy of the rules.

The rationale for taking this approach is:
  • It keeps threads clean and on track
  • It ensures coherence for new readers
  • It maintains a positive image of the Lejonklou brand
  • It removes negativity
  • It promotes cooperation towards the forum’s objectives
I’m sure there are other advantages too.

All of the above could be achieved by other means, but for me, the main reason for taking this approach is that nearly all posters who don’t play the game will have some kind of antisocial interpersonal traits and they won’t change their behaviour, no matter how nicely they’re treated. So don’t waste time, eject and move on with the minimum of fuss and disruption.
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