Preamp to match Tundra

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-03-14 00:44

tokenbrit wrote:The Kisto was meant to be the equal (or better?) than the first Klimax Kontrol (pre dynamik)

Although I'm drifting off topic, I have to object here.

I have never heard a Kisto performing anywhere near an original KK. And the later KK's are even further ahead.

fatjulio · Post by **fatjulio** » 2014-03-14 01:20

Do you think a multi channel analogue only version would perform the same as the 2 channel one?

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2014-03-14 05:29

lejonklou wrote:
tokenbrit wrote:The Kisto was meant to be the equal (or better?) than the first Klimax Kontrol (pre dynamik)
Although I'm drifting off topic, I have to object here.

I have never heard a Kisto performing anywhere near an original KK. And the later KK's are even further ahead.

Maybe I should've said the Kisto was considered by some to be the equal (or better?) than the first Klimax Kontrol... It was an opinion expressed by my old dealer and a few on the Linn forum but, of course, that's from a few years ago, becomes even less relevant with the release of the Tundra preamp, and could be made obsolete by a multichannel version ;)
(back on topic :)

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-03-15 17:52

fatjulio wrote:Do you think a multi channel analogue only version would perform the same as the 2 channel one?

I think it's difficult to get it as good and the reason is power consumption. The ultimate solution would probably be to use more power supplies, which due to regulations would require more boxes than one.

Let's discuss this more in detail if we meet on my preamp release tour!

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-03-16 21:14

Before we get too carried away with the multi-channel preamp idea I think it is important to consider a few things:

1) Fredrik said he would consider it if it were only an analog device. There is a fair distance between considering it and actually working on one and a lot more between starting to work on one and coming out with one. Especially as Fredrik has other ideas to pursue.

2) in relation to those other ideas my guess (and it is only a guess) is that this type of multichannel preamp would be down the list a ways. Why? because, first off, it would have a very limited appeal. Though some members here would welcome this type of device the public at large is more interested in a full on preamp/processor with HDMI connections and decoding of all the different surround codecs. So the market for it is likely to be small and I'm pretty sure Fredrik has no interest in doing a preamp/processor. (After all, if it is more than Linn wants to handle with all their resources, it is unlikely to appeal to Lejonklou. Because of the politics of HDMI - and it is indeed a political device even more than an electrical one - pre/pros are a true minefield for any quality Hi-Fi company which is why there are so few devices of real quality out there.) Secondly, as mentioned, it would require a lot of work and possibly multiple chassis to get it to work as well as the stereo preamp. This could mean that the best way to implement it would be as an add-on chassis to the stereo unit. Note I have no inside information that this is how it could be done or even that it is possible as having a control connection between the coming stereo preamp and any extension unit seems unlikely to me - I am just talking theoretically here. But regardless there would be a fair bit of work involved to get it to work to Fredrik's standards.

So I guess what I'm saying is don't hold your breath. IF we see such a device, and again I feel it is a pretty small market to justify it, I seriously doubt we are talking about anything that could be called the near future. (Again, only my personal conceptions - I do not have access to what is in Fredrik's head on product development. Even on the coming preamp he is doing a great job of keeping about as much secret from me as he is from everyone on here - which I fully understand and appreciate.)

Personally, I just can't wait to hear the new stereo preamp and get one in my system!

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2014-03-16 22:23

ThomasOK wrote:Before we get too carried away with the multi-channel preamp...

Personally, I just can't wait to hear the new stereo preamp and get one in my system!

Agreed. I was just making sure my idea of taking the analogue, stereo out from a processor such as an Oppo into the Tundra preamp's optional unity gain input was sound. It would be secondary to my main sources: LP12 & DS.
The Oppo 103 & 105 are positioned as digital media hubs and should take care of all HDMI/digital connections, switching, & processing duties. Speaker settings, bass management, channel trim & delay would all need to be done in the Oppo. That would leave a multi-channel analogue-only preamp as a high quality volume control at best, or pass through at worst.
I doubt there's enough appeal to create sufficient market volume (pun intended) to make development worthwhile.
For me the Tundra stereo preamp seems ideal. Ears, system, credit card, and bank balance are quivering with anticipation :)

matthias · Post by **matthias** » 2014-03-16 22:56

tokenbrit wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:Before we get too carried away with the multi-channel preamp...
Personally, I just can't wait to hear the new stereo preamp and get one in my system!
Agreed.
For me the Tundra stereo preamp seems ideal. Ears, system, credit card, and bank balance are quivering with anticipation :)

+1

Matt

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-03-17 03:30

tokenbrit wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:Before we get too carried away with the multi-channel preamp...

Personally, I just can't wait to hear the new stereo preamp and get one in my system!
Agreed. I was just making sure my idea of taking the analogue, stereo out from a processor such as an Oppo into the Tundra preamp's optional unity gain input was sound. It would be secondary to my main sources: LP12 & DS.
The Oppo 103 & 105 are positioned as digital media hubs and should take care of all HDMI/digital connections, switching, & processing duties. Speaker settings, bass management, channel trim & delay would all need to be done in the Oppo. That would leave a multi-channel analogue-only preamp as a high quality volume control at best, or pass through at worst.
I doubt there's enough appeal to create sufficient market volume (pun intended) to make development worthwhile.
For me the Tundra stereo preamp seems ideal. Ears, system, credit card, and bank balance are quivering with anticipation :)

Yes, that should work fine. You would set up the input (I believe number 4) to unity gain and hook the Oppo up to it. It would then pass through the signal for the front left and right channels from the Oppo at the same volume they came in. The Oppo would supply channel matching, delays and volume control for surround listening/viewing. On any other input the Lejonklou preamp would act normally.

macrotech2 · Post by **macrotech2** » 2014-03-17 11:01

I've already doing this with a KK/1 and it works well. Eagerly waiting a comparison with the Lejonklou preamp.

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2014-03-22 01:28

macrotech2 wrote:I've already doing this with a KK/1 and it works well. Eagerly waiting a comparison with the Lejonklou preamp.

I'm curious how to determine what the maximum volume should be in an Oppo, for instance, if using that into the Lejonklou pre-amp's unity gain, with Tundra power amps... My understanding is that the max pre-amp volume should be 78 to limit the output voltage to 1.65 volts and avoid clipping with maximum modulated input signals. If using unity gain, that appears to allow for a pre-amp output voltage greater than 1.65v if the volume, & consequent output voltage, of the Oppo is set too high.

Oppo 105 spec: Output Level: 2.1 Vrms (RCA) or 4.2 Vrms (XLR) at 0dBFS

What is the safe max volume on an Oppo if using via the Lejonklou pre-amp's unity gain into Lejonklou power amps?

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-03-25 22:41

Fredrik, will your tundra pre save volume per input? Reason I ask is earlier we were rocking out - ds input volume 75, changed to ipod - volume needed upping even with ipod maxed out, to 90. Swapped back to ds thinking it would still be on 75, but it wasn't! Lol. Oops, hastily turned it back down to 75.
Is this easy to do?
Regards, Daniel.

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-03-25 23:12

Forgot to mention, I was a bit drunk too.... Lol

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2014-03-26 04:50

Personally, I wouldn't want this "feature". By all means, an offset for each input, so that a lower level input can be adjusted upwards (for example a source connected through balanced output using an adaptor), but if I turn the volume down on one input, I don't want it to suddenly shoot back up when I switch to another!

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-03-26 13:06

I think Ozzzy meant an offset feature: That the preamp can remember a volume difference between inputs.

This is an interesting idea that I haven't considered before. Easy to program, but perhaps a bit difficult to set and reset with the interface I'm using. I will think it through before deciding!

Preamp status: Circuit boards are under production. They were planned to be ready by now, but manually measuring and selecting the semiconductors took a very long time. I had plans to let the assembling company do this work, but the procedures are not easy to explain. It's also impossible to check afterwards, on the finished circuit board, whether all selections were made properly. So I decided to do it all myself.

Casework and front plate will be manufactured any day. Then off to the painters and then to the laser marking company.

Front button assembly has been awaiting the mechanical switches. After testing a lot of different switches I settled for a very nice quality low force model with distinct feedback ("click"), made in Denmark. It turned out to be a popular switch, because all of their stock was sold out. Had to wait for their next production batch and I was just told that the first 100 pcs will arrive tomorrow!

mrco99 · Post by **mrco99** » 2014-03-26 13:21

Hi Fredrik,

Great to hear your advancements in making the pre-amp ready for its final launch presentation.
Like many probably, I am very curious what it will sound like.
Ordering 100 switches for a 4-input device means a first production batch of 25 preamps?

Best of luck with succesfully getting through these last stages,

Marco

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-03-26 13:52

Thank you Marco!

mrco99 wrote:Ordering 100 switches for a 4-input device means a first production batch of 25 preamps?

No, 100 switches was all I could get in March. Another 100 are on back order.

When finding out that the switch was not easily available, I was confronted with the decision whether to change to a different part. This is difficult, because I hate going back. Once I have clicked, bent, measured and decided which one I like best, I no longer enjoy the second best. So I called the company and when they said that both their stock and their next batch was sold out, I begged for 100 pieces.

By the way, these mechanical switches are front buttons, part of the interface. They don't switch the four inputs. That's a different story of a part that proved difficult to purchase.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-04-10 10:49

Only weeks until launch. An unexpected delay occured in the manufacturing of the enclosure. Apparently I had not approved a drawing and everything stopped. Well, that turned out perfectly. Because in the meantime, I had made some improvements to the communication link and really wanted to squeeze in a miniature sliding switch on the rear panel. When I was notified of the stop, I could add the switch before production resumed.

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-04-10 12:16

Exciting news. Good luck with the production fredrik.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-04-15 22:28

Next week all cases and fronts will be powder coated in matt textured black. Then the final assembly can begin.

I can't wait to get my hands on the first unit and set a date for the presentation!

In the meantime, the final proto is doing a quick round tour to a few enthusiasts for some feedback.

morego · Post by **morego** » 2014-04-15 23:08

Sagatun ;)

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-04-16 13:14

Yeah, I wondered what that means? Is it the name or just something printed on the circuit board for production purposes?

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-04-16 13:20

Only kind of meaning I can find is reference to a folk high school in Norway, the first of its kind. Not sure if this is relevant, but either way, I really like the sound of the 'name'.

matthias · Post by **matthias** » 2014-04-16 16:20

lejonklou wrote:
Next week all cases and fronts will be powder coated in matt textured black. Then the final assembly can begin.
I can't wait to get my hands on the first unit and set a date for the presentation!
In the meantime, the final proto is doing a quick round tour to a few enthusiasts for some feedback.

Whow, superb photo....
Double Mono Power Supply?

mrco99 · Post by **mrco99** » 2014-04-16 17:43

Are those few enthousiast already granted to give away some first impressions?
Or all still under firm embargo?? ;-)
Wish I was one of them.

Erik · Post by **Erik** » 2014-04-16 19:52