PSive wrote:I have literally just got my hands on a Tundra 1.2, replacing a 4200 bi-amping a pair of B&W CM9s.
I have listened for about 1/2 hour. Musical detail is supremely better, as is texture and the presentation of voices. Just beautiful. Bach, with all his complex lines sounds brilliant too.
But it does lack a touch of bass compared with the 4200 setup. Do you think this will change when it gets warmed up and run in, or are there any settings I can use on the Klimax Kontrol to compensate?
Hi PSive!
Nice to read your positive impressions! That there's less bass than before is a tricky one, as it can depend on several factors. You used to bi-amp your speakers, which gives a bigger sound, but at the expense of precision.
Sometimes more controlled bass gives the impression of there being less of it. And sometimes a repositioning of your speakers can be what's necessary. Hard to tell exactly, from a distance.
lejonklou wrote:Sometimes more controlled bass gives the impression of there being less of it. And sometimes a repositioning of your speakers can be what's necessary.
Agree, but I also suggest some weeks burn in.
Strangely burn in have this effect sometimes.
Ok, so I have repositioned the speakers, and run the amp for a bit longer.
My positive impressions are only getting stronger. Bass is much less of an issue. But the vibrancy, clarity, detail and musicality are superb.
When I listened to the tundra monos against the various Linn amps at Anthony's I wrote quite a lot on this forum about the comparison. The same basic characteristics are on show here - and the 4200 does sound quite stiff and metallic compared with the Tundra. Another thing I have noticed is that the Tundra really is excellent at presenting the human voice. A lot of the vocal recordings i listen to a lot anyway sound really beautiful and compelling.
Now I just need to save up for the monos...
I have my TV going into the KK through a DAC, so I have also been watching TV over this system, and the Tundra massively improves the sound of the TV!
I do need new speakers - the punchy and forward presentation of the B&Ws is less good a match for the Tundra than it was for the 4200. But this is because of the extra clarity, detail and depth of the tundra exposing the limitations of the CM9s. Anthony's 242s did sound great but i am short of the required cash at present. Anyone who has suggestions for alternative floorstanders, do let me know...
PSive wrote:Anyone who has suggestions for alternative floorstanders, do let me know...
Spendors aren't typically considered to be forward, but do have a sweet midrange - possibly a little 'opposite' to the B&Ws, but might match well with the Tundra. The new Spendor D7s that are meant to be good and at £4k new they're considerably cheaper than the 242... Or you can always audition the Spendor A6s at less than £2k new to see if they'd suit your system, ears and taste. All that said, it's probably much better to look at what you can get ex-dem or second-hand so you don't lose too much on an interim upgrade & temporary replacements for the CM9s until you can afford 242s, and Monos.
I'm sure others will have alternate suggestions. It's just that I'm familiar with Spendor...
PSive wrote:Anyone who has suggestions for alternative floorstanders, do let me know...
.. it's probably much better to look at what you can get ex-dem or second-hand so you don't lose too much on an interim upgrade & temporary replacements for the CM9s until you can afford 242s, and Monos.
PSive, did you see the 242s in the For Sale section, on here?
I used to have a pair of Linn espek which sounded much better than B&W
804 . I don't miss them as I changed them for Akurate 242 but I think they are very good and cheap on the second hand market.
lejonklou wrote: ... You used to bi-amp your speakers, which gives a bigger sound, but at the expense of precision.
In reality that might most often be the case. I figure it mostly boils down to that of two amps one of them will allways be better than the other and using the best one will give the better result. Another reason could be that in a loudspeaker design where the passive filter of the treble acts as a damping circuit for the other driver circuits (and vice-versa) bi-amping would actually degrade the performance. Do you have other reservations for why bi-amping does not seems to be such a good idea?
However there should also be advantages to be gained by letting several channels charing the load, thus when the difference between the amps are small enough bi-amping should be slightly beneficial. I would think that bi-amping is not very good value though. Multi amping should generally not be considered unless going fully active is the goal.
hcl, I don't yet fully understand the multiple mechanisms behind the benefits and drawbacks of passive multi wiring and multi amping. Both give similar benefits (bigger, more impressive and separated sound) and similar drawbacks (loss of homogenity and flow, less musical).
In my opinion, it's easy with a very optimised system to hear that they are both musically worse than passive single amping, single wiring. In systems that don't perform optimally, the comparison becomes more difficult. The multi amping/wiring can sometimes feel like it's injecting positive energy into the system, that was previously lacking.
The "one amp is better than the other" theory is only a minor part of what's happening. I say this because I've tried it with amps that have been very close in performance, almost impossible to tell apart, and the result was still the same.
My demo tundra arrives tomorrow, although I am in a new property now, and my system is in a little room, I'm hoping it's more intimate and without the echo I had previously, however, with a new room, comes new problems, and the need for tune demming once more. Pictures and thoughts to come. I Eagerly await with much anticipation the arrival of the tundra.
:-)
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
Ozzzy189 wrote:HiddenSystems Chris is lending me one, hope it's 1.2!!!
Yes its our demo 1.2 version together with our demo 2 x 2M of K200 with Linn plugs and Lejonklou solder. The cut is nothing to be proud of ;-( ie. not a straight cut like Fredrik can do. Hope you have fun listening to Agnetha after 60 mins as a night with a courier en route will be a shock to her - and she wont be a Dancing Queen and it will be SOS.
BTW, pictures? Please don't take the lid off as torqued, sprung loaded lid and heat sink compound and our original #13 unit tuned by Fredrik to help us sell millions J.
Listing to Mono's tonight KDS/1/KK/2/TM's/350PDyn - Fritz Reiner/Mussorgsky; Pictures at an Exhibition; A Night on Bald Mountain, and other Russian Showpieces - Track Two Gnomus - Living Stereo recording - incredible and no I'm not a classical buff but it's a mad system workout track
Lol Chris, if you knew me a little bit more you'd know I'd never do that! Heh Heh! Made me chuckle did that :-)
I have read about Fredrik's torque settings. No, just a picture of agnetha on my rack! :-D
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
Nice write-up ozzzy! I bet your expectations had been raised so high over the last year or two over the Tundra that I fully expected you to be bitterly disappointed - glad you feel the opposite!
I lived with 2x 4200s for a couple of years, passive & active, with 212s (all mk 1 gear). It never did that much for me frankly, though I was limited by speaker position and realise that is crucial. Having said that I borrowed Chris's 4200 recently while my Tundrae were being upgraded and at the time I had different speakers too as mine were getting checked out for a possible fault. I borrowed Audiovector Si3 Signatures which are in the same model range as mine but at the bottom of the range and completely different except for the wooden box they're in. I was surprised - Chris's 4200 (a mk 2 model - are they different to mk 1s?) and these particular speakers sounded fantastic! It was very enjoyable. It had shortcomings in terms of hi-fi sound - lacking in detail mainly & rather coloured, but it was a very musical combination indeed & I found myself listening a lot. The 4200s can sing, but I think they have to be paired correctly. I find Tundra much more versatile in comparison.
My father in law is staying with us. He lives in Joburg, and has lived in Africa since 1952. He brought with him an ancient record of Don Shirley playing the piano. It left England with him in 1952, has been played in a tin hut in the bush in Zambia, up the Drakensberg mountains, and in all the other places he has lived since. It is very precious to him.
But when I played it for him at my house he had tears in his eyes 'there are so many things in this record that I have never heard before.' Thanks to the Tundra, I have made an old man really happy.
