Lejonklou Tundra

[tokenbrit]

Interesting & exciting to read the positive results, especially for 'Tundra Mono' just "using one channel of each". Were any listening tests done with bi-amped Tundras, either using the two channels of each Tundra for left & right speakers separately, or for stereo treble & bass?

Maybe too early to say, but are there now plans to make a 'Tundra Mono'? (T-Solos ;)

[macrotech2]

Glad you enjoyed it Fredrik. You should be rightly proud of all the positive responses you received. I don't think the traditional British reserve was much in evidence!

Now when can I hear 242s driven by a pair of single channel variants of Tundra?

Kevin

[lejonklou]

Interesting & exciting to read the positive results, especially for 'Tundra Mono' just "using one channel of each". Were any listening tests done with bi-amped Tundras, either using the two channels of each Tundra for left & right speakers separately, or for stereo treble & bass?

No bi-amp tests were done during the UK trip. When using Tundra for bi-amping, it's usually best to let one Tundra drive bass and treble of one speaker. The other Tundra then drives bass and treble of the other speaker.

In my opinion, bi-amping resembles bi-wiring in how it performs. And I usually (I'm not saying always, because it does seem to vary a bit between speakers) prefer single amping and single wiring passive speakers. The bi-amp option is big and impressive sounding and might work well in some cases, but it also seems to sacrifice some of the timing and accuracy that you get when keeping the entire signal together all the way to the speaker.

I'd really appreciate some feedback on these two ways of using a pair of Tundras, if anyone wants to try it!

Maybe too early to say, but are there now plans to make a 'Tundra Mono'? (T-Solos ;)

At the moment, the best solution is to use one channel on each Tundra. Just removing one channel inside a Tundra actually doesn't make the other channel perform better, as there are some power and heating issues involved that makes Tundra perform optimally just the way it is.

Now when can I hear 242s driven by a pair of single channel variants of Tundra?

If you have the speakers, I'm sure we can arrange it with your retailer!

[anthony]

I have recently gone from bi wired to singled wired on 350s,
and am really enjoying the system.

[lejonklou]

I have recently gone from bi wired to singled wired on 350s, and am really enjoying the system.

Anthony, they were single wired when I heard them last week, right?

Your system sounded fabulous!

[anthony]

I have recently gone from bi wired to singled wired on 350s, and am really enjoying the system.

Anthony, they were single wired when I heard them last week, right?

Your system sounded fabulous!

Thank you Fredrik.

Yes they were single wired.

[mrco99]

We listened mostly at level 72 Tundra - 64 on LINN amps

Majik DSM with Majik 140's - our favorite lowest cost best system. Bass link on crossover omitted/cut and steel stands, Linn K20 cable.
Majik DSM no internal amp with Tundra Majik 140s
Akurate DSM with Tundra and 242s

I am very curious to hear how Tundra sounded with M140, and how it compared with the active version, driven by MDSI and 6100.
I heard the latter version recently and was actually quite surprised by this setup. Very musical and lots of details.
If I were to make a change from Keltiks these speakers are likely the first in line, also because of budget I must add.
242s will be clearly better, but too expensive when I would get a Tundra as well.

[Linncredible]

I am very curious to hear how Tundra sounded with M140, and how it compared with the active version, driven by MDSI and 6100.

+1. All information concerning X100 aktiv VS Tundra would be highly appreciated and valuable. How much better, in what ways (all ways?) etc.

[Rufus McDufus]

I auditioned some speakers today with my Tundra, plus my Kikkin & an ADS/2 with silver i/cs and Tellurium Q Black speaker cable.

First up PMC Fact 8. The Tundra was cold to start with but we gave it about 45 minutes in total and I was rather disappointed with the PMCs. They're very 'hi-fi' but rather too warm for me. Very good in the mid-range but lacking & muddled in the bass & not too detailed in the top end department either. We tried swapping the phase on the speakers (using phase inversion as that usually sounds best with the Kikkin), made very little difference. I really felt there was something not quite right but maybe the PMCs are just like this.

B&W 804 Diamond. Ah, much better! Great staging, super detail but not harsh like my 212s can be. Really lovely and tuneful. I could feel at home with these. Very bright compared with the Fact 8s but in a good way. I think these work well with the Tundra.

B&W 803 Diamond. After looking around the store for what else looked interesting and bearing in mind I can't have anything too large in my house (which discounted the Focal Electra 1028/1038 Be - just a little overwhelming physically, & err, ugly for their size compared with the 804s for my tiny listening room) I tried the 803s. Very impressive! Same as the 804s except maybe just a little less detailed and slightly poorer separaration in terms of vocals. Good bass though. Great speaker and I'd say better than my mkI 212s with the Tundra - better detail & bass.

So 804 Diamonds is top of my list so far. And the Tundra? It didn't break a sweat despite listening at quite loud volumes. In fact the unit didn't feel even warm. Once 'warmed' up it did its thing - very very good.

[minge]

I auditioned some speakers today with my Tundra, plus my Kikkin & an ADS/2 with silver i/cs and Tellurium Q Black speaker cable.

First up PMC Fact 8. The Tundra was cold to start with but we gave it about 45 minutes in total and I was rather disappointed with the PMCs. They're very 'hi-fi' but rather too warm for me. Very good in the mid-range but lacking & muddled in the bass & not too detailed in the top end department either. We tried swapping the phase on the speakers (using phase inversion as that usually sounds best with the Kikkin), made very little difference. I really felt there was something not quite right but maybe the PMCs are just like this.

B&W 804 Diamond. Ah, much better! Great staging, super detail but not harsh like my 212s can be. Really lovely and tuneful. I could feel at home with these. Very bright compared with the Fact 8s but in a good way. I think these work well with the Tundra.

B&W 803 Diamond. After looking around the store for what else looked interesting and bearing in mind I can't have anything too large in my house (which discounted the Focal Electra 1028/1038 Be - just a little overwhelming physically, & err, ugly for their size compared with the 804s for my tiny listening room) I tried the 803s. Very impressive! Same as the 804s except maybe just a little less detailed and slightly poorer separaration in terms of vocals. Good bass though. Great speaker and I'd say better than my mkI 212s with the Tundra - better detail & bass.

So 804 Diamonds is top of my list so far. And the Tundra? It didn't break a sweat despite listening at quite loud volumes. In fact the unit didn't feel even warm. Once 'warmed' up it did its thing - very very good.

Wonder if the Tundra capable to drive B&W 802 Diamond speakers because they are very difficult for amps have anybody heard the combo?

Mike

[Flatcoat]

Yesterday I listened to the Tundra for the first time at my dealer. The system was KDS1/KK1 and 350p's all current spec. The Tundra sounded superb - very musical and enjoyable to listen to. We then compared it to a non- dynamik Twin which I had just sold for £3300. The Twin was not as good, sounding very slightly harsh in comparison. Considering that the Tundra new is £2800, it represents brilliant value.

I could replace my office Twin with a Tundra but am unlikely to do so as there is something very special about the appearance of the Twin which is worth quite a chunk of money. I will upgrade the Twin with Dynamik and I am certain the differennce between the two amps will be minimal.

[Charlie1]

Was the KCT warmed up Flatcoat? And Tundra for that matter? Would like to compare again myself with fully warmed up amps, although I am sure Tundra is better than Akurate. It would just be nice to be certain in my own mind where it slots in between Linn amps.

[christian]

It would just be nice to be certain in my own mind where it slots in between Linn amps.

Not sure about the current lineup as my previous Klimax Twin did not have the Dynamic upgrade, but: The Tundra was obviously better than the Twin when me and Mr Linnofil did the comparisons. I have been living with the Tundra now for a couple of weeks and I must say that I really enjoy it. I feel as if I have made a source upgrade!

[anthony]

It would just be nice to be certain in my own mind where it slots in between Linn amps.

I am not sure if it can be identified as "slotting in" the Linn range, it is a product in its own right.
The Tundra has a different presentation to Linn, and therefore, important to have a demonstration, to decide which is most suited to an individuals taste.
Unfortunately the Klimax Twin was cold against a warm Tundra, and consequently perhaps being unfairly judged.
I think it is dangerous to "write off a Twin" both products are excellent in their own right.

[Per A]

My experience is that a better component can be told straight away cold or hot. But it can definetely be different and then I need some time and discussions with someone sharing our interest in music and think of what I want from it. Detail pace song feeling so on.

[Flatcoat]

The Tundra was fully warmed up but very new. The Twin was 18 mths old so fully run in. It certainly sounded fully warmed up at the end of the session. To me the Tundra was definitely better than the non dynamik twin but I am still keeping my Twin, it is not as if it sounds bad and when I have it Dynamiked it will get a 5 yr warranty. The Tundra only has a 3 yr warranty.

My guess is that it will cost you under £1000 to upgrade to the Tundra from your 4200 so surely it is a no brainer.

Was the KCT warmed up Flatcoat? And Tundra for that matter? Would like to compare again myself with fully warmed up amps, although I am sure Tundra is better than Akurate. It would just be nice to be certain in my own mind where it slots in between Linn amps.

[lejonklou]

Thanks for sharing your opinion of Tundra, Flatcoat! And welcome to the forum! I just noticed you've been registered since 2008 and started posting today. :)

How much does it cost to upgrade a Twin with Dynamik?

[ThomasOK]

In the US the Dynamik Twin upgrade goes for $2250.

[Flatcoat]

To upgrade the twin in the uk it costs £1400.

[Music Lover]

To me the Tundra was definitely better than the non dynamik twin but I am still keeping my Twin, it is not as if it sounds bad and when I have it Dynamiked it will get a 5 yr warranty. The Tundra only has a 3 yr warranty.

Yes I also consider Tundra being more musical than Twin. On the other hand Twin has the sweet Klimax sound.
ok, the 5y warranty is a benefit but before upgrading your Twin, you should consider other options.
After comparing many Twins, it's not a dramatic difference between Twin/Dynamik and Twin.
The dynamik upgrade makes most difference on the Akurate amps (huge), less on the Majik amps (big), even less on the Twin (little better) and the least on Solo (noticeable).
And Solo without dynamik is still better than Twin/D.

So if you decide to not buying Tundra, the only sensitive option is Solo imho.
But before doing anything, evaluate your options spending the funds on your source/pre. Source first!

[9designs]

To me the Tundra was definitely better than the non dynamik twin but I am still keeping my Twin, it is not as if it sounds bad and when I have it Dynamiked it will get a 5 yr warranty. The Tundra only has a 3 yr warranty.

Yes I also consider Tundra being more musical than Twin. On the other hand Twin has the sweet Klimax sound.
ok, the 5y warranty is a benefit but before upgrading your Twin, you should consider other options.
After comparing many Twins, it's not a dramatic difference between Twin/Dynamik and Twin.
The dynamik upgrade makes most difference on the Akurate amps (huge), less on the Majik amps (big), even less on the Twin (little better) and the least on Solo (noticeable).
And Solo without dynamik is still better than Twin/D.

So if you decide to not buying Tundra, the only sensitive option is Solo imho.
But before doing anything, evaluate your options spending the funds on your source/pre. Source first!

possibly one of the most honest and usefull posts I've read in a long time. .... I have a KCT and wondering what to do next.

[anthony]

To me the Tundra was definitely better than the non dynamik twin but I am still keeping my Twin, it is not as if it sounds bad and when I have it Dynamiked it will get a 5 yr warranty. The Tundra only has a 3 yr warranty.

Yes I also consider Tundra being more musical than Twin. On the other hand Twin has the sweet Klimax sound.
ok, the 5y warranty is a benefit but before upgrading your Twin, you should consider other options.
After comparing many Twins, it's not a dramatic difference between Twin/Dynamik and Twin.
The dynamik upgrade makes most difference on the Akurate amps (huge), less on the Majik amps (big), even less on the Twin (little better) and the least on Solo (noticeable).
And Solo without dynamik is still better than Twin/D.

So if you decide to not buying Tundra, the only sensitive option is Solo imho.
But before doing anything, evaluate your options spending the funds on your source/pre. Source first!

possibly one of the most honest and usefull posts I've read in a long time. .... I have a KCT and wondering what to do next.

The answer is there, get some solos.

[anthony]

To me the Tundra was definitely better than the non dynamik twin but I am still keeping my Twin, it is not as if it sounds bad and when I have it Dynamiked it will get a 5 yr warranty. The Tundra only has a 3 yr warranty.

Yes I also consider Tundra being more musical than Twin. On the other hand Twin has the sweet Klimax sound.
ok, the 5y warranty is a benefit but before upgrading your Twin, you should consider other options.
After comparing many Twins, it's not a dramatic difference between Twin/Dynamik and Twin.
The dynamik upgrade makes most difference on the Akurate amps (huge), less on the Majik amps (big), even less on the Twin (little better) and the least on Solo (noticeable).
And Solo without dynamik is still better than Twin/D.

So if you decide to not buying Tundra, the only sensitive option is Solo imho.
But before doing anything, evaluate your options spending the funds on your source/pre. Source first!

Music Lover, I have owned many pairs of solos, and the last pair for 5 years. I now have dynamiked solos, and I find them much better.

[Flatcoat]

Some comments based on my own experiences with top end Linn gear:

I have compared dynamik Twin to non dynamik in my system and thought that it was a dramatic difference.

I heard Dynamik Solos with KDS1/KK1/350P's the other night and it was certainly one of the best systems I have ever heard. I had previously heard non dynamik Solos in a similar system and my thoughts is that the Dynamik upgrade is huge.

I have a KDS1/KK1 combination so do not forsee anywhere else to go in terms of 'source'.

To me the Tundra was definitely better than the non dynamik twin but I am still keeping my Twin, it is not as if it sounds bad and when I have it Dynamiked it will get a 5 yr warranty. The Tundra only has a 3 yr warranty.

Yes I also consider Tundra being more musical than Twin. On the other hand Twin has the sweet Klimax sound.
ok, the 5y warranty is a benefit but before upgrading your Twin, you should consider other options.
After comparing many Twins, it's not a dramatic difference between Twin/Dynamik and Twin.
The dynamik upgrade makes most difference on the Akurate amps (huge), less on the Majik amps (big), even less on the Twin (little better) and the least on Solo (noticeable).
And Solo without dynamik is still better than Twin/D.

So if you decide to not buying Tundra, the only sensitive option is Solo imho.
But before doing anything, evaluate your options spending the funds on your source/pre. Source first!

[Music Lover]

Music Lover, I have owned many pairs of solos, and the last pair for 5 years. I now have dynamiked solos, and I find them much better.

It's difficult to describe improvement, hence comparing with the RELATIVE enhancements in other products. Just to get a better perspective on the improvement.

And the 5k outlay (upgrading Solos) surely going to offer more performance on the source/pre.
See, another relative observation ;-)

Or...242, 350 and Komri, all offer bigger performance differences.
Or Twin vs Tundra (that is quite big imho)

Maybe Linn was right after all, "we had difficulties developing a better PSU than we already have in Twin/Solo"

Anthony, have you compared your Solo/D with Tundra yet? Love to hear your thoughts.