Lejonklou Gaio

beck · Post by **beck** » 2016-07-22 21:00

As far as I understand it Lejonklou products do have a "run in" period but how they change and by how much I do not know. Wait for The Man himself to answer. He will know!:-)

Post by **lejonklou** » 2016-07-23 07:16

casperghst42 wrote:Hi,

I just a Gaio to replace an very old Gram Amp 1, I use a Rega Planet 3 with a Denon DL-110 (ok, but not really an high output MC). The DL-110 will probably be changed to an Ortofon MC Quintet in the near future (I got an step up which I used with an MC30 super back in the day).

The Gaio is way more detailed than the Gram Amp, but a lot more boomy, does that go away after it's run in periode, as I do like my music lean ...

Thanks,

Casper

Hi Casper!

I'm sorry to hear that you get a boomy sound. I have never had that comment before, so I'm not entirely sure what it's about. It might have to do with the Denon DL-110 cartridge, which is a high output MC and none of my phono stages have been tested with such devices (simply because I have never heard one perform well, my stance is either you buy an expensive low output MC and a dedicated MC stage or you stick with the best MM you can find).

I don't think you should expect this character to go away by itself. Burn in has subtle effects, usually removing harshness and making the music more easy flowing and accessible. Rarely decreasing the amount of bass, although the character of the bass can shift a bit.

You didn't mention positioning. Phono stages are usually very sensitive to how they're positioned. Please take five minutes and test what different positions and supports does to your Gaio!

I wish you the best of luck sorting this out and if possible, please keep us posted on your results!

casperghst42 · Post by **casperghst42** » 2016-07-23 11:54

lejonklou wrote:
casperghst42 wrote:Hi,

I just a Gaio to replace an very old Gram Amp 1, I use a Rega Planet 3 with a Denon DL-110 (ok, but not really an high output MC). The DL-110 will probably be changed to an Ortofon MC Quintet in the near future (I got an step up which I used with an MC30 super back in the day).

The Gaio is way more detailed than the Gram Amp, but a lot more boomy, does that go away after it's run in periode, as I do like my music lean ...

Thanks,

Casper
Hi Casper!

I'm sorry to hear that you get a boomy sound. I have never had that comment before, so I'm not entirely sure what it's about. It might have to do with the Denon DL-110 cartridge, which is a high output MC and none of my phono stages have been tested with such devices (simply because I have never heard one perform well, my stance is either you buy an expensive low output MC and a dedicated MC stage or you stick with the best MM you can find).

I don't think you should expect this character to go away by itself. Burn in has subtle effects, usually removing harshness and making the music more easy flowing and accessible. Rarely decreasing the amount of bass, although the character of the bass can shift a bit.

You didn't mention positioning. Phono stages are usually very sensitive to how they're positioned. Please take five minutes and test what different positions and supports does to your Gaio!

I wish you the best of luck sorting this out and if possible, please keep us posted on your results!

Hi,

I switched my Denon DL-110 with my 30 year old Ortofon MC30 Super / MCA-10 ... there is still a bit of rumble, but it's nothing compare to the Denon, and the mid are just (to my ears) spot on - Miles Davis So What (180g) is ever so nice. I can see a Quintet Blue or Bronze coming up when I have saved up for a new step-up (suggestions?).

So you were right, the high-output is not really that great.

Thanks,

morego · Post by **morego** » 2016-08-22 23:16

Hello,
may I ask what audio output level the Gaio has?

I have a 500mV/ 500K input and
I want to meet the right operation level of the Opamps in the input.
Liebe Grüße...Frank

Post by **lejonklou** » 2016-08-22 23:26

Hi morego!

Gaio amplifies the cartridge signal 102 times, when measured at 1 kHz. So if your cartridge has a 'nominal output level' of 5 mV, Gaio will output 510 mV.

So the exact answer to your question depends on your cartridge.

I have never come across an amplfier for which the Gaio has too strong a signal. Usually a 500 mV sensitivity means that several Volts is fine too.

morego · Post by **morego** » 2016-08-22 23:41

Thanks,
well I use a lot of cartridges, they are mostly at about 5V. (Black, Bonze, Adikt, V15 iV)

I used it at at a 300mv input so fare and i thing the this one is a lot better.

I think its perfect now.

morego · Post by **morego** » 2016-08-23 00:31

well, I just looked up the Linn Adikt. I has about 6,5 mV. This would mean 663 mV output.

Do you think I should put some resistance in the line to get it to 500mV?
If yes, how much would you suggest?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2016-08-23 02:03

No, don't damp the signal with resistance!

The main question is: At what level does the "500 mV" input clip? It can probably take a lot more. And it might sound even better when the signal is a bit stronger.

morego · Post by **morego** » 2016-08-23 07:52

( for people following this: We talke about the different sensitive inputs on a modded Quad 44 with Burr Brown 134 Opamps)

Furthermore, damping is there anyway.

For me it is not clipping it is more desortion. Thats taste... getting warmth .. loosing room.

matthias · Post by **matthias** » 2017-05-06 18:15

Analog Planet:
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/sho ... kLSqYUT.97
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/eig ... 1yJM10f.97

Matt

beck · Post by **beck** » 2017-07-07 09:30

matthias wrote:Analog Planet:
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/sho ... kLSqYUT.97
http://www.analogplanet.com/content/eig ... 1yJM10f.97

Matt

So does the result reflect what I would buy? Not at all. Try this:

Listen to file 2 (Graham Slee) and compare it to file 6 (Lejonklou Gaio). The Gaio gets the music (the interplay between the musicians) right. The Graham Slee has a timing that is weird.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2017-07-07 11:37

Thank you for posting this Matthias!

I agree with you Beck. Number 6 times very well compared to the others. :) But that is probably not what the majority is listening for.

grey17 · Post by **grey17** » 2017-10-19 22:30

Michael Fremer has another MM phono stage shootout that includes the Gaio. This one is using a MM stage with a step transformer or headamp with a MC cartridge. He rightly points out this is just for fun and not scientific. The results are in and the Gaio with a Piccolo head amp ranked at the top.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/per ... -cartridge

Ron The Mon · Post by **Ron The Mon** » 2017-10-20 02:24

grey17 wrote:Michael Fremer has another MM phono stage shootout that includes the Gaio. This one is using a MM stage with a step transformer or headamp with a MC cartridge. He rightly points out this is just for fun and not scientific. The results are in and the Gaio with a Piccolo head amp ranked at the top.

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/per ... -cartridge

I disagree. This is precisely the definition of scientific and not fun at all for those who buy through mainstream reviews and don't buy hi-fi via comparative demonstration.

Ron The Mon

beck · Post by **beck** » 2017-10-20 06:55

For those who have not listened here are the clips. Scroll down and you will find the two sets of clips used in the test:

https://www.analogplanet.com/category/p ... mp-reviews

Personally I am glad the Gaio gets some attention. What I hear is a no fuss, go straight for the music phono preamp. It is the sound I want.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2017-10-20 09:23

Yeah, that was good fun. Thanks.

grey17 · Post by **grey17** » 2017-10-20 14:34

What I found interesting was that there is further life for a MM stage if one was to eventually move to a MC cartridge, the Lejonklou MM stages being such great products. The participants showed a preference for the Gaio with a headamp (and extra interconnect) versus the more expensive MM/MC Lehmann Silver Cube.

Maybe Fredrik’s work on a MC stage can be leveraged for a headamp for existing Kinki
/Gaio/Slipsik users (or any MM stage) who later move to a MC cartridge, assuming the market demand is present. It would be interesting to hear if any forum members are using a head-map or SUT with a Lejonklou.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2017-10-20 17:40

Well deserved Fredrik!

dasher · Post by **dasher** » 2017-12-26 01:25

grey17 wrote:What I found interesting was that there is further life for a MM stage if one was to eventually move to a MC cartridge, the Lejonklou MM stages being such great products. The participants showed a preference for the Gaio with a headamp (and extra interconnect) versus the more expensive MM/MC Lehmann Silver Cube.

Maybe Fredrik’s work on a MC stage can be leveraged for a headamp for existing Kinki
/Gaio/Slipsik users (or any MM stage) who later move to a MC cartridge, assuming the market demand is present. It would be interesting to hear if any forum members are using a head-map or SUT with a Lejonklou.

Having recently swapped to an MC and currently using it via the MC input on an Akurate DSM I would be very interested in this. I was about to sell my Gaio but would love to keep it and use a headamp instead!
Any chance of this, Frederik?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2017-12-29 10:51

Hi dasher!

I have no specific plans to make a headamp, although I am currently spending a lot of time on MC stage development.

Please be aware that if using a headamp, the DC voltage level out of it is of crucial importance, as I mentioned in the following thread:
http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3916

dasher · Post by **dasher** » 2017-12-30 22:03

Thanks Fredrik

I had no intention of trying a head amp - I would have only been interested if you had made one specifically to pair with the Gaio - even if the Gaio had to be returned to you first for the mod. I really like the Gaio but, after 17 years of using them, I've moved on from the Adikt.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2018-01-02 21:42

Which MC did you go to? I am currently using a 30-40 year old tiny Ortofon transformer into a Slipsik while waiting for my Urika to be repaired. I am pleasantly surprised with how good it sounds. Wish I had a Lejonklou MC stage instead.

I'm trying not to be a smart ass (difficult considering my upbringing) but I am still trying to figure out how you have been using a cartridge that came out in 2002 for 17 years?

dasher · Post by **dasher** » 2018-01-04 21:53

Hi Thomas - Last one first - by buying an awful lot of replacement Adikt Stylii!! The chances of an Adikt (certainly up until a couple of years ago) last a couple of years before dragging its backside on the vinyl I found were very remote - even in times of low use. I've hardly ever replaced an Adikt stylus due to diamond wear.

MC Stage - I'm currently using the built in Phono Stage in the Akurate DSM. I've listened to theis ADSM stage against my old Kairn and a Trichord Dino/Dino+/Upgraded Dino Link. It's better than the Kairn (but that could actually be the Kairn's laid back presentation and whilst the Dino combination has the slight edge, it's not enough for me to worry about.

I've not tried anything else - cartridge is a Soundsmith rebuilt Asaka (this is a full rebuild - not a retip). It is a bit of an experiment at the moment. In the second LP12 I'm running an Ortofon MM - 2MBlack, which I really like. The 2M Black/ Dino is a great combination. I've had this Asaka sitting around since rebuild though and fancied giving it a try - alternative was to have a second 2M Black as I much prefer it to the Adikt.

kelly200269 · Post by **kelly200269** » 2018-06-08 22:44

Hi Fredrik,
I’ve just bought a Gaio Mk.1 from Chris at Hidden Systems in Windsor, UK.
I put it into my system last night (LP12/Ekos/Adikt), and couldn't believe how great it sounds! It completely eclipses the in-built phono stage on my Akurate Kontrol/1. I can see myself listening to a lot more vinyl in the coming months!
Thanks for producing such a great piece of equipment, and the best of luck in future developments!
Martin

Post by **lejonklou** » 2018-06-08 23:39

Thank you Martin!

And welcome to the Forum!

Lejonklou Gaio

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