Forum issues are discussed here

[beck]

My view:
This is a forum for us thinking evaluation of music performance is made in an objective way and has nothing to do with "personal preferences".
We have passed that stage and also found out that source first always applies.
Contribution to the forum is highly appreciated and the aim is to helping each other to get the most out of our music libraries.

Erik

+ 1

[Erik]

I also wish you luck in proving that a good source guarantees a good Tune Dem. I gave examples where this was clearly not true. A good source in a good system is absolutely going to be the thing to focus on to improve and get an even better Tune Dem, but couple a good source with unlistenable components downstream results in something unlistenable.
Improving the source first is always going to be the priority in something that is already listenable. But a rubbish component further down the line is always going to be a limitation. Source first is a (correct) hierarchy, not a miracle worker.

For me this rubbish spells EXAKT, but still you hear the importance of the source.
A Nait and a pair of 109's will never fail to do it even clearer and for me that defines a better system down the chain.

Erik

[Music Lover]

Erik, I think most agree on your (first) post regarding forum rules. Quality is important in the posts, not quantity.
I may have missed any posts in this thread but the discussion in this thread is not about forum rules , it's about moderation methods.
Deleting weeks of information...

I'm very happy wirh the forum rules.

[sunbeamgls]

I also wish you luck in proving that a good source guarantees a good Tune Dem. I gave examples where this was clearly not true. A good source in a good system is absolutely going to be the thing to focus on to improve and get an even better Tune Dem, but couple a good source with unlistenable components downstream results in something unlistenable.
Improving the source first is always going to be the priority in something that is already listenable. But a rubbish component further down the line is always going to be a limitation. Source first is a (correct) hierarchy, not a miracle worker.

For me this rubbish spells EXAKT, but still you hear the importance of the source.
A Nait and a pair of 109's will never fail to do it even clearer and for me that defines a better system down the chain.

Erik

Actually Erik, I gave examples of systems that had great sources (when used with good supporting components) but were unlistenably bad due to the components downstream from the source, despite their price tags. And we're talking unlistenably bad here, not the difference between listening for hifi type parameters vs listening for the tune. There was no reference to Exakt in that context, nor is there in the post extract you post above. So where are you getting Exakt from in that context?

How many times do I have to say that I agree that source first is the correct hierarchy? It just doesn't guarantee a good system, from a Tune Dem perspective, nor any other form of evaluation.

[Music Lover]

Guys, I suggest starting a new thread about stuff not relared to moderation :)

[sunbeamgls]

Guys, I suggest starting a new thread about stuff not relared to moderation :)

:)

Most of it is proving why the thread in question shouldn't have been moderated in the way it was moderated ML

Also :)

[Azazello]

However, unlike North Korea or the Islamic State, we are not forcing anything on anyone :)

Think of it as a church that you are free to enter as long as you follow certain rules. Outside of it, we do not try to spread our beliefs or criticize anyone with a different faith.

These are very self-righteous sentences.
In these countries wrong opinions are not allowed either and "removed". How is your behaviour not the same?
And in churches, at-least outside the Islamic State, you can speak up freely, all opinions are allowed and there are not specific rules to follow. I have friends from all religions and they are kind, humble and open for other opinions.
Comparing with these are for me strange.

But...forums for me is a different environment = no need to be compared with other items to justify it's existing imho.
We CAN have strict rules here on the forum BUT the policing of the rules can be done in a nice way OR with arrogance.

This is my take on this:
1/ As you said yourself, you has been absent from the forum for some time
2/ Someone asked to split the thread, and no response = apparently it was ok to continue
3/ You the read the thread, still no response from you
4/ You decided "no useful information", without even asking us
5/ Instead of moving it, you just removed everything

To be honest I'm disappointed of your attitude. Where is the humility?

With power comes responsibility.
Having the total power, you need to be humble, very kind and VERY careful using it.


That said, I agree this forum should have high quality and with Tune Dem as the corner stone.
But it's NOT a nice behaviour you being absent and then from the clear sky removing weeks of information!
I'm VERY disappointed.
Either you step in sooner, or eat the humble pie!

The difference is that this is a internet forum and everyone is perfectly free to use it or not, I also do not kill anyone, or try to stop someone from expressing themselves outside of this very small space in the universe.

The moderation has been the same since day one, and you have been angry about it quite a few times before. I'm sorry if it offends you. I believe it's the only way to keep the quality (and in the spirit of self righteousness; I believe it has been a very successful strategy).

I do not share your view on what was deleted. But you are entitled to your opinion, of course.

I already apologized for not taking care of it sooner :)

[Music Lover]

Azarello
But the deletion of posts could be avoided by moving the posts to an "off topic" section of the forum. win-win!
Why is that option not implemented?

I have no issues with hard & strikt rules, but I have a hard time understanding why confrontation is used as a moderation method.

[Geoff]

What would a certain short fingered vulgarian* say/do about this? We have to be very attuned to any form of censorship, and it should be rooted out and fought vigorously. I don't live under the luxury of the first amendment, as the majority here don't as well, but it remains the gold standard. I may hate your disagreeing with me, but I defend your right to do it.




*google it if you don't know

[ThomasOK]

What would a certain short fingered vulgarian* say/do about this? We have to be very attuned to any form of censorship, and it should be rooted out and fought vigorously. I don't live under the luxury of the first amendment, as the majority here don't as well, but it remains the gold standard. I may hate your disagreeing with me, but I defend your right to do it.

*google it if you don't know

That luxury is being seriously challenged by said short-fingered vulgarian with his constant lies, demeaning of the press and gag orders on the EPA and other government agencies - and only five days in.

[donuk]

What is really needed is a forum where customers and enthusiasts can discuss Lejonklou products.
The present forum does not serve this purpose.
Let me explain.
Through a friend I heard a Lejonklou amplifier. I went to a demonstration and met Fredrick himself.
I bought a Lejonklou amplifier.
I then had a wish to share my enthusiasm for the product and ask questions about Lejonklou products in general.
I attempted to do this, and it has not been an altogether happy experience. The reason for this is that I don't regard the tunedem method as a very satisfactory way of evaluating music. I also challenge some of the other accepted rules of hifi that are supported on this forum. But a number of you "know" I am wrong; just like a religious zealot who bangs on my door.

Could this forum have a section for "non-tunedem" discussion? Then the majority of the world's hifi owners (and potential Lejonklou customers) can share their views in their own words, using their own yardsticks without fear of recrimination and censorship. It would be good for us all.

Of course a moderator can impose whatever standards he likes on a forum. I am not sure doing this is good for the product the forum is meant to support.

Donuk York

[sunbeamgls]

In the interests of transparency, can forum posts be labelled with the user status, particularly moderators and dealers (Lejonklou and non-Lejonklou) please?

[donuk]

Hi Sunbeam
I notice your post followed my criticism of some aspects of this forum. If you are wondering:
I am not a dealer; never made £1 out of retailing hifi; spent thousands.
Have a number of personal friends in the UK industry over many years. Try to be loyal and discrete with all of them.

I think moderator contributions come out coloured, so easy to see. (Also you will tell by the tone of the post :-)
Yes I think dealers or active hifi sellers should declare themselves, but most do I think.

Looking forward to meeting you at the upcoming show. Anyone bringing a Freddy-box?


Donuk sunny (honestly) downtown York

[sunbeamgls]

Hi Sunbeam


Looking forward to meeting you at the upcoming show. Anyone bringing a Freddy-box?


Donuk sunny (honestly) downtown York

I don't think so, unfortunately. The Wigwam show would be a good place for a small company like Lejonklou to promote its products as I believe it is much cheaper than the commercial shows.
And my comments about dealer identification had no relation to your post Don, it followed yours purely as a coincidence.

[lejonklou]

In the interests of transparency, can forum posts be labelled with the user status, particularly moderators and dealers (Lejonklou and non-Lejonklou) please?

There is a rule on the market section of this forum that says:
'Retailers and shops are allowed to advertise, provided it is made perfectly clear who the seller is.'

In practice this is fulfilled by the members mentioning in their signature if they have a retailing or a distributing role. This is good practice even outside of the market section, so I am now adding the following general rule:

Please state in your signature whether you have a professional role in the world of HiFi (e.g. retailer, distributor, reviewer, etc).

[sunbeamgls]

:)

[lejonklou]

The forum currently has an average of 1400 individual visits each day. July is the most quiet month of each year and in 2018 averaged around 1000. Thank you all for contributing to this ever increasing pool of knowledge of how to best reproduce music in our homes!

I plan to soon activate SSL, which means that http will be changed to https in the website address. The change makes all traffic to and from the website encrypted. Hopefully the activation of SSL will go unnoticed by most of you, but if you should experience a few moments of downtime, you will know what it's about. Thank you in advance for your patience!

[Spannko]

Wow! 1400 visits is pretty impressive. Well done :-)

[lejonklou]

Thank you Spannko!

[lejonklou]

You may have noticed that the NEWS section of the website has been broken for a while - it didn't display the pictures from Instagram.

This is now sorted!

[matthias]

Fredrik,
I think it is helpful for new members to see the new button FORUM RULES within the HAKAI category.
Have you thought about offering this button in all categories?

Matt

[lejonklou]

Fredrik,
I think it is helpful for new members to see the new button FORUM RULES within the HAKAI category.
Have you thought about offering this button in all categories?

Matt

Thanks matthias, the category HAKAI actually has the forum rules in a pink line at the top. I need to check why it became a pink line instead of an announcement. All categories should look the same.

[lejonklou]

Now fixed!

[matthias]

Fredrik,
I would like to vote for a new forum category named MUSIC where members of this great forum can talk about all things music.

Matt

[lejonklou]

Thank you for the suggestion Matthias!

We have discussed this before but it might be time to do it again.