Tundra Mono 3

[lejonklou]

TM 3. 027/028 ( upgraded TM2s)

This is for Marco

Any reports on how these compare to standardTM3s.

I’m expecting them to be a huge upgrade on TM2 and very close to brand new TM3s.

Marco is out biking and is expected back next week.

I too want to hear his impressions!

[u252agz]

That’s some bike ride

- but hopefully he’s had time to have done the comparison before going away - and will be feeling refreshed enough to share for a few words of wisdom soon after returning.

If they are as good as I expect - it’s going to be a tough decision between upgrading and selling them on for ‘new’ TM3s.

[lejonklou]

Tundra Mono 3 number 045 and 046 (both upgraded TM2's) have been shipped to Uppland, Sweden.

[tokenbrit]

TM 3. 027/028 ( upgraded TM2s)

This is for Marco

Any reports on how these compare to standardTM3s.

I’m expecting them to be a huge upgrade on TM2 and very close to brand new TM3s.

Marco is out biking and is expected back next week.

I too want to hear his impressions!

Any word? Did Marco get back safely?

[mrco99]

TM 3. 027/028 ( upgraded TM2s)

This is for Marco

Any reports on how these compare to standardTM3s.

I’m expecting them to be a huge upgrade on TM2 and very close to brand new TM3s.

Hi u252agz,

We're back from holiday and will report.....your expectations are quite right but I think it may need some more words than that.
As we had a final listening test between the upgraded TM3 and the new TM3 in the presence of an end customer last week, I will write down how that evolved - and its outcome.
Story to follow later today!

[mrco99]

So here are our thoughts about new TM3 vs the upgraded ones;

We had our first new TM3 pair supplied to us beginning of March and it was one of the very first pairs delivered.
After some running in, it was clear from the start that these played on just another level than the (still) great TM2.2.
To us, there's a captivating flow and involvement present in this new TM3 that you simply didn't know you had been missing while happily enjoying the TM2.2 - simply because you haven't heard it before.

Particularly at higher volumes, the new TM3 need a good week of playing-in to unveil their full magic but we noticed and received also feedback from early TM3 adopters that, as time progresses, subtle improvements could still be heard.

The upgrade from TM2 to TM3 involves a LOT of work and Fredrik should receive full credit for the excellent service of providing an upgrade to existing TM2 owners as he went to great lengths to making it sound almost as good as the TM3 where it probably costs less time to produce a new pair TM3.

As we received more inquiries from customers whether to upgrade or to buy new, we had a pair of TM2.2 upgraded to TM3 which arrived in July. Before we wished to jump to conclusions, we decided to give the TM3UP pair a fair amount of playing time before we made any comparisions because our demo pair was about 3 months older so obviously had more hours on them.

With the summer holiday coming up and us being away we both had the TM3 and TM3UP playing with relatives & clients to give the amplifiers some more mileage so we had to pickup and collect them first upon our return.

I think the greatest compliment we can give the new TM3 is that we just can't stop listening. On several occasions I found myself wishing to select and pick some individual tracks but found myself playing the whole album again and again.
With streaming it appeared that albums or artists that I hadn't much of a connection with now became interesting and made me want to hear more. As if their message finally came across.

The upgraded version of TM3UP is also a superb amplifier and had this been the one and only version I don't think I would have had any reservations to replace the TM2.2 with these.....it is just that I heard the new TM3 already. If you listen to the new TM3 prior to the TM3UP then you do notice something is missing in the upgraded version that you heard presence in the new TM3.

Last week I revisited a customer with a full Lejonklou Mono set playing, Sagatun Mono 1.4 and Tundra Mono 2.2 with source being Linn Klimax DS/Organik.

He had listened to the new TM3 as a replacement for his TM2.2 and clearly there was no argueing whether TM3 was better. But he found the 'always-on' blue leds on TM3 a bit too distracting and then there was that subtle colour difference in logo with the Sagatun Monos.....so we let him listen to the upgraded TM3 as he had a long weekend to listen and compare. Within 24hrs I received confirmation that it had to be the new TM3 as these simply were the more musical amplifiers – there are cures for the leds and logos but not for the musicality and involvement of the new TM3...

[u252agz]

Thanks for the review Marco- well worth the wait.

That the upgraded TMs are a huge upgrade , but not quite as musical as new TM3s is kind of what I was expecting - and it’s not making my decision any easier .

I was hoping you might say that there was some sonic differences but just as musical.

Part of me still says get the TM 2.2s upgraded - and give my ‘old friends’ a huge boost in performance and a new lease of life - it would be very satisfying to keep the original TMs which have gone through all the upgrades to date.

The other part wonders whether I would ever regret not having the most musical Tundras , even with the blue lights always on and different logos.

Decisions - decisions.

[matthias]

Decisions - decisions.

After reading Marco's review I would not upgrading but go for complete new TM3s.

[Hermann]

Thanks for the report Marco.
Is there an opportunity to hear examples?

Decisions - decisions.

After reading Marco's review I would not upgrading but go for complete new TM3s.

It would also be an option to determine how high the costs are and then decide.

[tokenbrit]

Decisions - decisions.

After reading Marco's review I would not upgrading but go for complete new TM3s.

Always easier when you're 'spending' someone else's money ;)

[ThomasOK]

I have only a partial, but not definitive, statement on the musicality of the TM3 upgraded unit vs. the new TM3. The reason this is partial is due to the circumstances I had in doing the comparison. We are talking a unit I just upgraded with maybe 15 hours on it compared to a new unit with hundreds of hours and we know that makes a difference. But we are also talking the new unit on 230 Volts vs, the upgrade at 120 Volts and the upgraded one sitting on top of a Klimax Radikal (with a record inner sleeve in between), off center (so the cables would reach) on a Trud top shelf vs. the new TM3 centered on a Tor shelf two down. All of this means that the comparison isn’t very scientific but those are my limitations. All my upgrades are spoken for and make their way to their expectant customers as soon as I finish them. I have done 8 so far and am starting work on 9 and 10 with 11 and 12 happening as soon as those units get here. So I don't have time to do an extended burn in on a pair of upgraded units nor do I have a 120 Volt set of TM3s set up and burned in because my system is running at 230 Volts.

An important note is they both sound really good and are a very large musical upgrade over the TM2.2. One of my customers is quite enjoying his and called the upgrade "quite amazing". Also I will mention that after doing the warmup and final testing and adjusting we do a quick listen at the end. I really don't notice a difference making the change back to my new TM3. The new and upgrade certainly have the same character and sound like the same amplifier. But I also didn’t stop the music and replay the same part, I just switched them with the music live from the Källa.

I did do a comparison of single units in Mono with one of units I had burned in for about 15 hours while it was still warm and all fine tuned and adjusted. I only listened to one mono track off Spotify, an old Frank Sinatra piece that came in handy a while back for Silver cable comparisons. When I did the direct A/B I did find that the new TM3 is musically better having nuances and subtlety of vocals, instruments and musicianship giving even a bit more of the feeling that the musicians are right there. It is not a huge difference (it is nothing that could be noticed if you didn’t do a direct A/B) and they both sound really good, but the new unit is indeed better. Sorry I can't provide a more exacting comparison.

[u252agz]

Thanks
Your impression that the TM3s are better but would need a direct A to B comparison to notice is very helpful.

I’m leaning towards the upgrades.


BTW

I can’t believe that I have been waiting impatiently for Marco to come back from his holidays for his review and all that time you have been sitting on this little nugget of information.

[u252agz]

Decisions - decisions.

After reading Marco's review I would not upgrading but go for complete new TM3s.

Always easier when you're 'spending' someone else's money ;)

Once you factor in the resale value of the TM2.2s - probably not that much in it . I suppose the better used value of the TM3 is also a factor.

There is something attractive about keeping my original units ( even if it is mainly the case ! ) and having them look identical to my Sagatun monos.

The switch for the blue lights is also a rather cool feature on the originals.

As long as the musical difference is small, of course.

[ThomasOK]

Thanks
Your impression that the TM3s are better but would need a direct A to B comparison to notice is very helpful.

I’m leaning towards the upgrades.


BTW

I can’t believe that I have been waiting impatiently for Marco to come back from his holidays for his review and all that time you have been sitting on this little nugget of information.

I only made this comparison fairly recently. I didn't start doing the upgrades until mid-August and immediately started working on eight units. It was one of the later units I did the comparison with so its only been a week or so. Too busy doing the upgrades which have 67 steps and an expected time of four hours (my first one took me 5 but now I have it closer to 3). That doesn't include the 6-12 hours of playing in a system before the final torques and voltage settings are made and the unit is ready to be packed up.

[u252agz]

Sounds like your timescales has been similar to Marcos - and my wait was unavoidable.

I think we are very lucky on this Forum to have trusted ‘ears’ doing these reviews as demos of this sort of thing are unavailable to most of us.

I haven’t listened to a demo at a dealer in years ( other than Majik LP 12 cirkus vs karousel) and rely on the Forum.


Thanks to both of you - and keep up the good work.

[u252agz]

These TM3 s are spectacularly good - simply unbelievable.

My system has been transformed , from the musicality to the sound and seemingly everything in between. Even the soundstage, which I am not too concerned with is there in spades.

I did not think it was even possible for power amplifiers to do so much to the music.

It feels (even at 6 hours run in) like I’ve done a serious upgrade to the source and speakers , as well as the amps, and all at the same time.

There is something so ‘right’ about the music now - and I thought it was already very good with TM2s.

It feels like the TM3s completely get out of the way of the upstream signal and just provide an easy, effortless, precise and almost limitless amplification to drive the speakers.

The upgrade to TM2 was big, but pales into insignificance with this one.

When Herman wrote his initial review of TM3s, I thought - No he must be exaggerating. How can a set of amps, so low down in the heirarchy do this much?

Well he was spot on. They do just that.

Well done Fredrik - I take my hat off to you.

[tokenbrit]

These TM3 s are spectacularly good...

You went new rather than upgrade, then?

[u252agz]

Yes - Marco managed to locate a new pair so I went for it.

Before Brexit I just used to send the units to Fredrik. Now it’s quite a convoluted process and takes much longer.

From what Thomas and Marco have said, I’m sure I would have been just as pleasantly shocked by the upgraded ones.

My monos are in the AV cabinet so the blue lights aren’t an issue .

[tokenbrit]

Yes - Marco managed to locate a new pair so I went for it.

Before Brexit I just used to send the units to Fredrik. Now it’s quite a convoluted process and takes much longer.

From what Thomas and Marco have said, I’m sure I would have been just as pleasantly shocked by the upgraded ones.

My monos are in the AV cabinet so the blue lights aren’t an issue .

Congratulations - sounds like a very impressive upgrade from your TM2s, if not *to* your TM2s ;)

[Hermann]

Congratulations u252agz. I'm pleased to hear that you've enjoyed these exceptional amplifiers.

[u252agz]

I’ve had the TM3s now for a couple of weeks, and they have got better and better.

Right from unpacking it was clear that they were something special and I was amazed at how much improvement they bring to my system.

It now feels like one of the biggest upgrades I’ve done to the system and I now understand just how good the LP12 and Kalla are, along with the Sagatun Monos and my trusty 242s.

A phenomenal product - one of Fredrik’s finest, for sure.

[lejonklou]

Thank you for your kind words, u252agz!

I must admit that I’m still perplexed by how captivating the music now appears in my lab. Although I heard every step of improvement, one by one, the sum of them are difficult to grasp until you’re immersed in it. And in that immersion, that thrill, lies all of the reward.

The quest continues.

[u252agz]

Yes -captivating and at times bewitching, evocative and haunting; and every other emotion one can attach to beautifully reproduced music.

It has given me a new found respect for the amazing talents of the musicians artists and recording studios, as well as the designers and manufacturers of the equipment that can reproduce this in the comfort of one's home.

The 'greater than the sum of parts that the individual upgrades within TM3' seem to reflect what has happened to the units within my system now that TM3s have been added. It seems that with this that the final bit of tuning has been done and I now have a complete system whereby the individual components are matched and in harmony.

Interestingly, with most of the upgrades I have had over the years, even the big source upgrades, I have quickly gotten used to the new and better sound and it has quickly become the norm.

With the TM3s - it feels like I will never get used to this - the sense of wonderment if anything seems to be increasing. And I'm sure its not the units just improving with burn in.

Herman's original posting on TM3s, are a great description - far more eloquent then mine and I think it would be helpful for the moderators to put it into this thread, with his permission of course.

Anyone interested in getting these hugely impressive amplifiers should just read that post.

I would have to say that even though the price has gone up quite a bit from the TM 2.2s; in terms of what they have done to my system I would consider these TM3s to be exceptionally good value for money.

[Spannko]

Yes -captivating and at times bewitching, evocative and haunting; and every other emotion one can attach to beautifully reproduced music.

I totally agree u252agz! I’ve heard some very musical systems, but only listening through TM3’s have I experienced a sense of nervousness within myself as a result of the tension in the music being reproduced. They certainly are very special amplifiers!

[David Neel]

Yes -captivating and at times bewitching, evocative and haunting; and every other emotion one can attach to beautifully reproduced music.

I totally agree u252agz! I’ve heard some very musical systems, but only listening through TM3’s have I experienced a sense of nervousness within myself as a result of the tension in the music being reproduced. They certainly are very special amplifiers!

I've been reluctant to comment on my TM3s, because time is better spent listening. I agree with Hermann and u252agz, wholeheartedly. From the off it was a quantum leap, and it's only got better. The effect does not wear off, unlike some upgrades I've experienced. I regarded the TM2.2s as magnificent, the best amplifiers I've heard, and never, ever, felt any inadequacy or need to upgrade - but I'm so grateful that I took the plunge!

As for Spannko's experience of nervous tension, that was my system he was listening to. I was playing, amongst others, a track which I used extensively in the past for tuning Hakai, as it has a very subtle but powerful momentum which is easy to lose. (Modul 17 from Nik Baertsch's Ronin Live.) Many thanks to Spannko for noticing an interconnect issue, As a result of further experimentation both sources now have different interconnects - I'm just sorry you didn't hear the LP12 restored to its full glory with the substandard cable removed.

It has taken me both sides of the Klemperer/Philharmonia recording of Tchaikovsky 5th to type this. It's SO difficult to ignore the music... take a bow, Fredrik!