Tundra Mono 3

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David Neel
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by David Neel »

TMV wrote: 2023-01-13 15:25 "It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer."
Albert Einstein

I don't know if this is true. I guess he was pretty smart, worked late evenings, took breaks, found new inspiration and worked late again!
He is also reported to have said:

"I think 99 times and I find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me"
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by tokenbrit »

David Neel wrote: 2023-01-15 09:39
TMV wrote: 2023-01-13 15:25 "It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer."
Albert Einstein

I don't know if this is true. I guess he was pretty smart, worked late evenings, took breaks, found new inspiration and worked late again!
He is also reported to have said:

"I think 99 times and I find nothing. I stop thinking, swim in silence, and the truth comes to me"
I had not heard that one - I like it. There's also "You never fail until you stop trying" and "Creativity is intelligence having fun."
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by springwood64 »

tokenbrit wrote: 2023-01-15 15:01 There's also "You never fail until you stop trying"
One of the hardest things to judge is when to recognise you need to stop trying and turn a possible success into an actual failure.

Years ago I started a mobile software business with some friends, but after 8 years of tenacious hard work, we had to acknowledge that success was unlikely.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by tokenbrit »

springwood64 wrote: 2023-01-15 18:34
tokenbrit wrote: 2023-01-15 15:01 There's also "You never fail until you stop trying"
One of the hardest things to judge is when to recognise you need to stop trying and turn a possible success into an actual failure.

Years ago I started a mobile software business with some friends, but after 8 years of tenacious hard work, we had to acknowledge that success was unlikely.
In the spirit of Edison, you didn't fail; you pursued an idea that didn't work out... But, yes, it can be difficult to know when you have taken an idea as far as you can, and when a fresh approach, idea, or design needs to be taken forward instead.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by ThomasOK »

In the words of the great philosopher W C Fields: "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it."
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by Arjen »

ThomasOK wrote: 2023-01-18 00:47 In the words of the great philosopher W C Fields: "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it."
The story of the search for better, for tweaking, In the words of Samuel Beckett: “Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better”.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by lejonklou »

Update:

Tundra Mono 3 will be more expensive than anticipated.
Tundra Mono 3 will sound even better than anticipated.
Tundra Mono 3 will be severely limited in availability due to lack of components.

Currently working on the production of the circuit boards. I thought they'd be done by now, but we've run into several interesting challenges along the way. We decided to make the boards in a 4-step soldering process, where the fourth one is a manual soldering of the last measured-and-selected-to-within-0.02% components.

While I preciously thought I had everything sourced, it turned out that a component I bought from an IC scavenger in Shenzhen was in fact the real deal, but unfortunately out of spec. All 500 of them. The original manufacturer claims it will be back in stock by dec 2024-jan 2025, which doesn't really help. But I managed to source it again elsewhere and my intern Oscar measured and found 78 pcs that were within spec. As one is being used on each circuit board, this limits the amount of the first batch of Tundra Mono 3 boards.

Other parts turned out to have changed specs unexpectedly: Internal cabling and connectors. Found some new old stock but am still searching for a cable.

As the second soldering step had to wait, I put Oscar on measuring and selecting the resistors that I have found are most rewarding to fine tune into the next level of precision: from 0.1% to 0.02%. Strangely the smaller steps are just as audible as the bigger ones - or perhaps even more so, as everything sort of "snaps into place" musically when you find the optimal value.

I remember long ago Julian Verkerer of Naim Audio saying that his biggest challenge was sourcing the best components. I feel the same. This last year it's gotten more difficult than ever before.

But: It's just one cable missing now.

I think that Tundra Mono 3 will start shipping in March.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by Hermann »

Very good news and thanks for the insight.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by ThomasOK »

Thanks for the comprehensive update. It's a real bummer you are having such problems with components. It does seem the way of the world right now. Getting 500 out of 500 bad parts from Shenzen is certainly very annoying!

It is great to know that it will sound better than expected, and my understanding is that it will be a fair bit better than expected. I know you don't like raising prices but whatever it ends up at will still be significantly less expensive than countless units that aren't as musical. I still can't wait, now even more!
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by barrie »

👍👍
Last edited by barrie on 2023-03-06 18:11, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by lejonklou »

Final assembly of the 50 first Tundra Mono 3 will start this week.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by mrco99 »

This is fantastic news, congrats with entering the production and assembly stage.
Looking forward to Tundra Mono 3 with great anticipation!
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by Sopper »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-06 03:14 Final assembly of the 50 first Tundra Mono 3 will start this week.
Great!
Are prices and upgrade-path settled now?
If yes, I’ll contact Marco
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by Hermann »

Excellent news indeed. Thank you very much.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by ThomasOK »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-06 03:14 Final assembly of the 50 first Tundra Mono 3 will start this week.
That's great to hear. Definitely looking forward to these.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by lejonklou »

Next week I'm driving to collect the first 10 completed units of Tundra Mono 3.

I'm hoping I will at the same time get an estimate from my assembling company, so that the price can finally be set.

What remains to do on each Tundra Mono 3 is to carefully mount the output transistors, which my intern Oscar has measured and sorted.

Actually he measured and sorted them twice; once last October-November and then again this February-March, when I realized the measuring station could be improved by heating each transistor for a longer time, cooling it more and adding more negative feedback to the circuit. This improvement makes the measured values more accurate and stable, which in turn makes our choice of the best transistor pair more precise. Luckily Oscar is also very stable and didn't raise an eyebrow when I told him that these 2000+ transistors you recently measured, well, they need to be redone. All of them? Yes, all of them.

When the selected transistors have been mounted and soldered in place, a copper piece with a steel spring on top is installed and torqued to 0.4+4 Nm. The spring keeps the pressure constant regardless of how the materials expand while heating. Then I power up the amp, take some measurements to confirm that it performs to specifications, check that the Trim feature on the rear covers the necessary range and put the lid on.

When I have done number 001 and 002, I will compare them to prototypes 00A and 00B that are currently playing in the music room. Will 001 and 002 be better than the prototypes? That's what I expect. Right now I can't tell whether I'm nervous or just excited. Perhaps both.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by mrco99 »

Thanks for the update Fredrik.
While we haven't heard the prototypes in real I can feel the agitating excitement growing on me too.
It's quite clear all your gained expertise over the years has gone into making these Tundra Mono 3 amplifiers the most enchanting listening experience. I'll prepare my goosebumps for some overtime :-)
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-16 23:52 When the selected transistors have been mounted and soldered in place, a copper piece with a steel spring on top is installed and torqued to 0.4+4 Nm. The spring keeps the pressure constant regardless of how the materials expand while heating.
Wow, never heard of something like that before.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by Hermann »

Thanks for the new info Fredrik. The target is close.

Transistor, cooler and spring with same temperature expansion coefficient? Remember to have learned something like that during my studies, long time ago....
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by ThomasOK »

Charlie1 wrote: 2023-03-17 10:51
lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-16 23:52 When the selected transistors have been mounted and soldered in place, a copper piece with a steel spring on top is installed and torqued to 0.4+4 Nm. The spring keeps the pressure constant regardless of how the materials expand while heating.
Wow, never heard of something like that before.
This has been used on the Tundra Monos from early on, at least from the 2 version when the heat sink material was changed from aluminum to copper. Without the additional copper top piece (sorry Duracell) the spring for even pressure with changing temperature is used even on the Boazu.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by ThomasOK »

That's great news, Fredrik! I am indeed very excited.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by Charlie1 »

ThomasOK wrote: 2023-03-17 17:20 This has been used on the Tundra Monos from early on, at least from the 2 version when the heat sink material was changed from aluminum to copper. Without the additional copper top piece (sorry Duracell) the spring for even pressure with changing temperature is used even on the Boazu.
Ah, ok - thanks!
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by lejonklou »

The ten first units of Tundra Mono 3 have been collected and are standing in my lab.
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by mrco99 »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-03-24 15:52 The ten first units of Tundra Mono 3 have been collected and are standing in my lab.
Congrats!!
And that on a Friday afternoon....I guess no weekend leave for you?
Hope they will sound at least as good as your prototypes!
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Re: Tundra Mono 3

Post by lejonklou »

No weekend leave. But a labour of love!
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