Lejonklou and Harbeth?

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mbabst
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Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by mbabst »

Hi

Do you think Lejonklou amps do well with Harbeth sepakers? Who is using this combination? What amp and what speaker?
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by Defender »

I recommend you to read the thread below your new created thread
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 582#p53582
it might answer your question
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by mbabst »

Thanks. Seems like it's a great match with the 5/9 so it will be a great match with my C7.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by mrco99 »

I have played Graham LS6 and LS5/9 with Boazu and the separates Sagatun & Tundra stereo and this worked very well - in fact the 5/9 have meanwhile become my wife's favourite speaker, both musically and aesthetically.

So yes, I think Harbeth C7 would be a good match too. Seeing your system signature, replacing the 5125/D with a Tundra would be the most logical first step....
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by David Neel »

mrco99 wrote: 2021-06-08 17:43 I have played Graham LS6 and LS5/9 with Boazu and the separates Sagatun & Tundra stereo and this worked very well - in fact the 5/9 have meanwhile become my wife's favourite speaker, both musically and aesthetically.

So yes, I think Harbeth C7 would be a good match too. Seeing your system signature, replacing the 5125/D with a Tundra would be the most logical first step....
Marco, your wife has excellent taste :)

mbabst, I would like to suggest that conventional wisdom is not always the perfect answer. Marco is correct, a Tundra would be a massive upgrade... but it seems that you are using the Linn DVC. Eliminating this and using a Lejonklou pre will be a massive musical upgrade also. For the same (ish) money, I'd suggest you also listen to Boazu.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by mbabst »

So you are basically suggesting to deactivate the Akurates volume control and use it as a Streamer/DAC only?
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by Defender »

yes that is what he suggests - and I suggest the same.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by ThomasOK »

Defender wrote: 2021-06-08 21:48 yes that is what he suggests - and I suggest the same.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by willem kuis »

Hi

I have not tried another speaker but Harbeth with Lejonklou.
However, For me it’s a musical match made in heaven!

And especially since I replaced my Kikkin 2.2 for a Sagatun 1.3 in my main system. (Thanks again, Defender)
That even got better since I bypass my NAD c 658 with a simple Meridian Explorer2 USB DAC which is now directly connected between my Roon Nucleus and the Sagatun.
It’s really incredible how the Lejonklou Tundra/Sagatun combo made my Harbeth’s C7 ES-3 sing like never before.

My Kikkin 2.2 is now being used as a Pre in my home-office in combination with a NAIM NAP 200: making music on my Harbeth’s P3 ESR. Also great!

P.s.: I use Duelund DCA16GA as Loudspeakercables.
Bonn N8 Roon Nad C658 Lejonklou Sagatun 1.3 & Tundra 2.5 SPEC RSA 901-EX Harbeth C7 ES-3
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by mbabst »

Thank you all, Lejonklou and Harbeth seems like a great musical match and I have to think about the preamp to. I thought the consensus is that Linn has solved the problems with DVC with the Katalyst upgrade. Why do you guys don‘t think so? Do you really think a Sagatun+Tundra+Cheap DAC will outperform a Linn DSM/3 Katalyst+Tundra?

I always thought Harbeths like power but it seems Boazu and Tundra with 40/70 watts into 8/4 ohms are enough. And there is another really cool thing about getting a Boazu and Sagatun preamp I have never thought of before until today: I play electric guitar. I have a Tweed Deluxe amp and also a Universal Audio Ox box, which lets me play the amp cranked at moderate volumes and get the output from cinch cables or from a headphone out. With the Boazu or Tundra I could play backing tracks through the Linn ADSM and at the same time play my guitar through the Ox box, as Boazu and Tundra can work like a mixer.

@mrco99 I probably have to give you a shout soon, it was nice getting my Slipsik from you.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by Defender »

I dont have a Akurate DSM but a Akurate DS/Katalyst - I used the DVC to test out if I can live with it but could not. It sounded transparent and detailed but without flesh and musicality - I might be over exagerating but I think it robs the soul of the music. However to be fair we also have users here who are absolutely happy with the DVC of the Akurate Katalyst.
I decided to buy a Sagatun Stereo - that sounded really wonderfull and now moved on to the Sagatun Monos which is even better.
So in your case - depending what your finances allow I would either go the Boazu route or if you have more financial freedom start with Sagatun Stereo and later you can change your Linn amps to Tundra.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by David Neel »

Defender wrote: 2021-06-09 09:00 I dont have a Akurate DSM but a Akurate DS/Katalyst - I used the DVC to test out if I can live with it but could not. It sounded transparent and detailed but without flesh and musicality - I might be over exagerating but I think it robs the soul of the music. However to be fair we also have users here who are absolutely happy with the DVC of the Akurate Katalyst.
I decided to buy a Sagatun Stereo - that sounded really wonderfull and now moved on to the Sagatun Monos which is even better.
So in your case - depending what your finances allow I would either go the Boazu route or if you have more financial freedom start with Sagatun Stereo and later you can change your Linn amps to Tundra.
I had the same reaction to ADS/3 vs Lejonklou...

You don't need another DAC, disabling the DVC on the Linn will still let you use it as a streamer/DAC.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by mbabst »

Well funds would allow the Tundra/Sagatun route but not at the same time.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by macbacchi »

hello all there. i have some Harbeth, SHL 5+ and P3 ES-2. i have to confirm that its some good combination with tundra monos. i listen via Linn KDSM kat or ADSM kat, also over Shindo valve amplification from Verdier Nouvelle Platine or Streamer. Its just good music, involving and authentic. I can compare to Shindo Talbot F2A or some Linn and Naim Power Amps. And i prefer to listen to Lejonklou and Harbeth. It just works fine for me. no problems driving the Harbeth with tundra monos.
Shindo, Verdier, a lot of Linn DSM, some Lejonklou and some LP.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by mbabst »

Regarding Linn DVC, do you know this paper?

https://small.linncdn.com/white-papers/ ... re-amp.pdf

I think DVC has really improved a lot with Katalyst and I had a non-Katalyst ADS/2 before.

I think I might go with Tundra first. The 5125 (and my old Akito 1) is definitely the weak link in my chain.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by lejonklou »

mbabst wrote: 2021-06-11 12:27 Regarding Linn DVC, do you know this paper?

https://small.linncdn.com/white-papers/ ... re-amp.pdf

I think DVC has really improved a lot with Katalyst and I had a non-Katalyst ADS/2 before.

I think I might go with Tundra first. The 5125 (and my old Akito 1) is definitely the weak link in my chain.
Once upon a time Linn was a company that said:

Ignore the technical nonsense!
Ignore the reviews!
Ignore what is considered "common knowledge"!
Just listen!
If it sounds better, it is better.

Today they publish technical nonsense when trying to convince us what is better.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by mbabst »

Well I can‘t judge if this is technical nonsense but I can say with certainty that DVC has improved with Katalyst. Will try to get both Tundra and Sagatun for a home demo soon.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by teatime »

lejonklou wrote: 2021-06-11 12:43 Today they publish technical nonsense when trying to convince us what is better.
Technical white papers like this from Linn are hardly common (I'm only aware of this one, Chakra, and probably one about Exakt. Are there more? Chakra must be fifteen years ago by now..), nor are they exactly pushing them (I can't find either of these through Linn's homepage today).

I honestly cannot make out if you think this is "technical nonsense" because it is
  1. Insufficiently technical
    This could well be, but most readers probably don't have your level of technical understanding but still appreciate some insight, even if rather superficial, into how things actually work.
  2. Actually nonsensical / incorrect
    This would surprise me, but perhaps that is the case. Do tell.
  3. Simply irrelevant
    "Technical implementation is irrelevant. Just listen." ?

    Well, this is actually in the above paper:
    Linn wrote: A pre-amp is a pre-amp, be it digital or analog. Digital processing and analog circuits are
    just the technological means of achieving the functionality one is after; in the case of the
    preamp, source switching and volume control. What matters is not the technology chosen,
    but how well that technology allows one to protect the music signal.

    Of course, measurements and engineering analysis can help us understand why something
    sounds better, but listening is the only way to confirm that it is better.

    Through extensive Tunedem based listening we are confident that the Klimax DSM is the
    best pre-amp Linn has ever made.
Given how controversial the move to digital preamps was (and clearly still is), I can't fault Linn for trying to explain why they took it.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by Defender »

it is a b and c + this article is a fools catcher they contradict their own benchmarks for testing (tune dem) even though they state they have
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by lejonklou »

In my opinion nearly all technical explanations why A sound better than B are nonsense. They use popularized concepts and when one looks a bit more closely, it's common to find exceptions that contradict the explanation. And then the explanation turns out not to be that valid after all.

My impression was that Linn released this paper because the original DVC was felt by the vast majority of listeners (at least everyone I talked to at the time) to be inferior to their best analogue preamp. So they tried to convince by tech talk instead.

I agree that the Katalyst is less bad as a volume control than the earlier versions.
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Re: Lejonklou and Harbeth?

Post by Defender »

yes this article was always wolf in sheep’s clothing for me - a technical/scientific dressed paper which was actually a marketing paper
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