Slipsik 7

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Slipsik 7

Post by lejonklou » 2019-01-07 22:09

Apologies for the delay! Here's some info on my latest and best ever MM phono stage. Perhaps the final version of Slipsik?

Slipsik 7 has three main improvements compared to Slipsik 6:

• The internal screening of the power cord, which was very time consuming and difficult to build on Slipsik 6, now consists of an insulated thin-walled copper tube, soldered and connected to the chassis in both ends. The idea came from Henrik at the assembly company MITAC after having inspected the construction of Slipsik 6 - probably thinking "there's no way we're doing that!" He sourced me a copper tube with the required dimensions and after testing it I happily concluded that it actually sounds better. The screening, which improves the quality of the bass, appears a little more effective and has a cleaner sounding character with this new tube.

• The connection between cartridge and input stage is more direct than before, with fewer components and a clear improvement in sound quality. The active components on the input stage needs to be pre-measured and selected, before they're sent to assebly, in order for this to work.

• The circuit board layout has received some improvements. There's a little less capacitance between certain internal power rails and a little less inductance on others - values I have tested and found to sound better.

Slipsik 7 should be ready in the beginning of February and I plan to take the first unit with me to the show in Hamburg 2-3rd of February. The price will be close to Slipsik 6, perhaps just a little higher.

What I'm currently wrestling with is how to handle upgrades. I simply don't have the time to disassemble older Slipsik's, as the copper tube screening part is much easier to construct when building the unit from scratch than when retro fitting it. I thought the Slipsik 6 upgrade was tough, but this one is worse - especially when converting a Slipsik 6, where the old screen needs to be removed without damaging the power cord and the electrical connections to the case. In North America, Thomas O'Keefe has decided to perform this upgrade procedure, as he only has a small amount of units to do. I would potentially have many more to take care of and it would take far too much time from other projects.

I've contemplated a trade-in scheme for Slipsik 6's, but the numbers are difficult to get right as it needs to make sense for everyone. There is also the possibility of upgrading Slipsik 6.x to a "final 6" by leaving the original screen in place and upgrade the input stage of the main board. This upgrade procedure is far from as complicated as a complete rebuild and I think the performance could become closer to version 7 than to Slipsik 6.1. I haven't tested it yet, but feel pretty certain that "version 6F" is a very cost effective upgrade. The question is how many owners are actually interested when there's a version 7 out.

If you have any opinions on this, please reply below to let me know! I need all the input I can get.

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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by Matteo » 2019-01-07 22:59

Thanks Fredrik and congratulations for the new Slipsik 7.

I’m ideally more interested in the trade-in scheme for my Slipsik 6 and, in suborder, to the “final 6”.

Is it possible to have an idea of the case, both in terms of dimensions and aesthetic?

M.
LP12/Kore/Akito 2b/ARadikal/Adikt/Slipsik 6-ND5 XS 2-152/155/FC XS-M109 [Silver-K20]

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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by lejonklou » 2019-01-08 00:02

Matteo wrote:
2019-01-07 22:59
Thanks Fredrik and congratulations for the new Slipsik 7.

I’m ideally more interested in the trade-in scheme for my Slipsik 6 and, in suborder, to the “final 6”.

Is it possible to have an idea of the case, both in terms of dimensions and aesthetic?
Thank you for the feedback Matteo!

Slipsik 7 looks exactly like Slipsik 6 apart from the bottom, where black screws replace the silver ones, and the rear, where it says Slipsik 7.

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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by Stephan » 2019-01-08 00:18

Trade in the Slipsik 6 for the slipsik 7.
Upgrade traded in Slipsik 6 to ”end version”
Sell this version at a price somewhere between Gaio and Slipsik 7
Make sure that this version is clearly marked as ”not uppgradable”

This Slipsik version might be a cost effective upgrade option for a Gaio owner

Largest difficulty is to put the right price to upgrade and end version.
It also needs to take into account that one of the embedded values of Slipsik is its upgradeability

Regards
Stephan

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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by lejonklou » 2019-01-08 13:25

Stephan wrote:
2019-01-08 00:18
Trade in the Slipsik 6 for the slipsik 7.
Upgrade traded in Slipsik 6 to ”end version”
Sell this version at a price somewhere between Gaio and Slipsik 7
Make sure that this version is clearly marked as ”not uppgradable”

This Slipsik version might be a cost effective upgrade option for a Gaio owner

Largest difficulty is to put the right price to upgrade and end version.
It also needs to take into account that one of the embedded values of Slipsik is its upgradeability

Regards
Stephan
Thank you Stephan!

You reached the same conclusion as I did. The scheme looks good but the pricing is difficult.

The really clever part about Linn's Renew scheme is that they let the customer pay extra to get their old unit back (in a new, simple case). Then the customer sells the old unit. Linn doesn't take any risks or have to do anything. The private sale of the old unit makes the customer earn money to pay for the upgrade. And the customer keeps all of the money from the sale, there are no middlemen or taxmen taking a share of it.

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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by TMV » 2019-01-08 21:09

Why do you say "Perhaps the final version of Slipsik?" Do you feel that a better MM phono stage in the future must have very big design changes to perform better an therefore Slipsik replacement will have a different name?

Since Thomas O'Keefe can (and will) do the upgrade at US labor prices I think you could offer that too. But I would like you to focus on designing new stuff so why not set a price on the upgrade that that really compensate for the work done?

The you can offer (prices are just an example):
- Slipsik 6.x to Slipsik 6.5(?) at lets say 2000SEK
- Slipsik 6.x to Slipsik 7 at lets say 6000SEK
- Slipsik 7 at lets say 11000SEK

Slipsik 6.5 might or might not be a final version, depending on what happens to Slipsik.....

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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-01-08 23:59

Fredrik is in a difficult position on this. While he has a company who can build Slipsik 7s for him, he would have to do the upgrade himself. There are a lot of Slipsiks out there in Europe so this could be very time consuming. Since Lejonklou HiFi is also launching the SINGularity at the same time, and my understanding is that it takes Fredrik about 3 weeks to make a pair of the circuit boards - which he has to make personally, and then assemble them personally as well, you can see how his time is rather short right now. Then add on a couple of other design projects in the works and he needs 72 hour days!

I don't have as many Slipsiks in the market over here and I don't have to build SINGularities so I am able to handle this better. Also, the labor rate for Hi-Fi repair over here is generally less than in Europe. Indeed Fredrik has told me before that my labor rate is too low. Maybe I need to start listening. :-)
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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by Matteo » 2019-01-09 08:55

Prices are also important for my decision.

For the trade-in scheme I would spend till € 500, while for the "final 6" upgrade € 250/300 could be a fair price.

BTW, I saw last night on the L website a 6.2. version of the Slipsik; what is it?

M.
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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by u252agz » 2019-01-09 09:51

This is a tricky one.

From a 6.1 owners perspective a trade in offer against a 7.0 would be great - this could be done by the dealer or Lejonklou HQ.

Any new customer could then buy the 6.1 as it is, or request the upgraded version, if Fredrick has the time to do this.

Could the European 6.1s be shipped in batches to the USA for Thomas to do the upgrades at his leisure and with a more attractive labour rate?
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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by lejonklou » 2019-01-09 14:58

Matteo wrote:
2019-01-09 08:55
Prices are also important for my decision.

For the trade-in scheme I would spend till € 500, while for the "final 6" upgrade € 250/300 could be a fair price.

BTW, I saw last night on the L website a 6.2. version of the Slipsik; what is it?
I'm afraid I won't be able to meet the €500 figure, it will be more expensive. Announcement coming up soon!

Slipsik 6.2 is the last unit with the version 6 circuit board. The case was however built with the new thin-walled copper tube instead of the copper mesh screen assembly used on all other Slipsik 6's. So this 6.2 unit has the same internal screening as Slipsik 7.

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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by lejonklou » 2019-01-09 15:16

u252agz wrote:
2019-01-09 09:51
Could the European 6.1s be shipped in batches to the USA for Thomas to do the upgrades at his leisure and with a more attractive labour rate?
The labour rate discussion I had with Thomas can be condensed to this:

Everyone I know says I charge too little for upgrade and repair work. They might be right, but I think spare parts, repairs and upgrades should be regarded more as a service to the owner than a new sale. So I maintain my position that their pricing should be kept low.

When I heard that Thomas charged even less than me for the quite complicated and often unique labour he did on customer's units and systems, it was my turn to say "Come on! That's crazy!". And it was his turn to explain that there's a bigger picture to consider. :)

Trust me; if Slipsik's were shipped to North America and back, the upgrade would cost A LOT more than if they're done here.

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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by lejonklou » 2019-01-09 15:34

TMV wrote:
2019-01-08 21:09
Why do you say "Perhaps the final version of Slipsik?" Do you feel that a better MM phono stage in the future must have very big design changes to perform better an therefore Slipsik replacement will have a different name?
I knew someone would spot this and ask!

Well, this seventh version is in a way the simplest phono stage I've ever done. The components are fewer than any previous Slipsik model and the repeatedly revised layout has become extremely clean and precise. At the same time, the parameters and values of the components are the most tightly specified so far - with the exception of SINGularity. Actually the simple design of Slipsik 7 doesn't work properly without the pre-measuring and -selection process.

What's left to improve? I have no idea. Have I felt that way before? Yes, admittedly I have. But this time the feeling of "completed" is stronger than before. I suspect I will need to start from scratch to improve upon Slipsik 7.
TMV wrote:
2019-01-08 21:09
Since Thomas O'Keefe can (and will) do the upgrade at US labor prices I think you could offer that too. But I would like you to focus on designing new stuff so why not set a price on the upgrade that that really compensate for the work done?
Yes, thank you for your input!

I think I'll skip the currently untested "version 6F" and trade-in schemes and instead focus on offering an upgrade to version 7.

This might require a pre-order of the upgrade and a certain time period when they're all done.

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Re: Slipsik 7

Post by u252agz » 2019-01-09 17:03

That would suit me and whilst a lot of work, would avoid the difficulties of trading in and flooding the market with different versions of Slipsik 6.

I am happy to wait until an ideal window of opportunity arises -the Slipsik 6.1 is no slouch and has until now been the best MM phonostage in the world.
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