Well, the discussion was about single source systems. A DS that handles many formats, including web radio, could be ideal for the addition of a high quality volume control.
Linn could also offer volume control as an option. DS fixed or DS+volume. Klimax Linto fixed or Klimax Linto+volume. Don't think for a moment that Linn won't charge appropriately for it. If the performance is similar to what you get with a KK, I'm sure they could charge at least half of what that costs.
Charlie1's System
Moderator: Staff
Took all your advice and finally sourced a Linto (in the right colour.)
:( :? :| :) :lol: :D :shock:
Won't say too much now, but I think it's fantastic! It's really infectious and the bass so tuneful. It has real gusto and is just more fun than the phono in the Majik Kontrol. Also has some of that cleanness I found abundant in the Akiva that makes the previous kit sound distorted by comparison.
Got to go!
:( :? :| :) :lol: :D :shock:Won't say too much now, but I think it's fantastic! It's really infectious and the bass so tuneful. It has real gusto and is just more fun than the phono in the Majik Kontrol. Also has some of that cleanness I found abundant in the Akiva that makes the previous kit sound distorted by comparison.
Got to go!
Having eBay'd just about anything that stays still long enough to be photographed, funding the Linto was completely worth it. And I know the Linto is old hat now (what is it - 10 years old now?), but I can't help writing about what a big difference it's made to my system. I suppose a fully loaded LP12SE hanging off a Majik Kontrol phono stage wasn't really the way to go, but I always presumed it wouldn't make much difference - after all, it's only a little thing sitting inside the pre-amp. Well, I was very wrong.
The Linto has really improved just about everything. It's more tuneful and I notice this particularly in the bass, but piano too. Unlike the Akiva and Ekos SE, it's the Hi-Fi improvements that have struck me the most, especially the bass, tightening it up quite a lot and seeming to go deeper too which has given more drive and power to the music. So much so, that I decided the speakers needed to be re-positioned, which was very worthwhile, although not my idea of fun (3 hours from start to finish!)
The other big Hi-Fi improvement is that it sounds so clean, CD-like, as if a layer of distortion has been removed. Very similar to the Akiva in this respect. And speaking of CD, my LP12 now has a noise floor as equally low - it's super quiet.
Finally, my Ninka speakers just keep improving with each upgrade to the source. I've always pointed the finger at them for being too warm, polite and lacking 'bite', but the Akiva, Keel, Tune Deming their position, and now Linto have all improved the balance and reduced these shortcomings considerably. I was very struck by the sparkling top-end of the Akurate 242's first time I heard them at my dealer, and whilst the Ninka's don't have the full bandwidth of the 3k array, the Linto has really opened up the top end and narrowed the gap significantly. Perhaps, they'll stay for a good few years after all. A solid example of 'Source First' improving the speakers I think.
All I can say is if you've got a Lingo'd LP12, then it's well worth getting a Linto. The better the LP12, the more the flood gates will be opened.
Finally, many thanks for the very sound advice from ML, Azazello and ThomasOK 8) .
The Linto has really improved just about everything. It's more tuneful and I notice this particularly in the bass, but piano too. Unlike the Akiva and Ekos SE, it's the Hi-Fi improvements that have struck me the most, especially the bass, tightening it up quite a lot and seeming to go deeper too which has given more drive and power to the music. So much so, that I decided the speakers needed to be re-positioned, which was very worthwhile, although not my idea of fun (3 hours from start to finish!)
The other big Hi-Fi improvement is that it sounds so clean, CD-like, as if a layer of distortion has been removed. Very similar to the Akiva in this respect. And speaking of CD, my LP12 now has a noise floor as equally low - it's super quiet.
Finally, my Ninka speakers just keep improving with each upgrade to the source. I've always pointed the finger at them for being too warm, polite and lacking 'bite', but the Akiva, Keel, Tune Deming their position, and now Linto have all improved the balance and reduced these shortcomings considerably. I was very struck by the sparkling top-end of the Akurate 242's first time I heard them at my dealer, and whilst the Ninka's don't have the full bandwidth of the 3k array, the Linto has really opened up the top end and narrowed the gap significantly. Perhaps, they'll stay for a good few years after all. A solid example of 'Source First' improving the speakers I think.
All I can say is if you've got a Lingo'd LP12, then it's well worth getting a Linto. The better the LP12, the more the flood gates will be opened.
Finally, many thanks for the very sound advice from ML, Azazello and ThomasOK 8) .
Glad to hear you are so pleased, Charlie. Indeed the Linto is a really good MC preamp and I suspect one reason Linn haven't yet replaced it is that it's difficult to make something that is a big step up from it. Something a Klimax Linto really needs to be!
Since I started working on MC stages myself I have become even more impressed with it. I had a rather nice sounding proto that was too noisy to be acceptable and in comparison with the Linto it struck me how quiet the Linto sounds to the ear. I'd say the noise floor appears lower than the specifications would suggest. All in all, I get the feeling there were many many details that were perfected by trial and error listening sessions on the Linto. It would be fun talking to the guys who developed it.
Since I started working on MC stages myself I have become even more impressed with it. I had a rather nice sounding proto that was too noisy to be acceptable and in comparison with the Linto it struck me how quiet the Linto sounds to the ear. I'd say the noise floor appears lower than the specifications would suggest. All in all, I get the feeling there were many many details that were perfected by trial and error listening sessions on the Linto. It would be fun talking to the guys who developed it.
Having taken a million and one photo's of my daughter, I thought I'd follow Thomas' lead and add some pic's of the Hi-Fi: -
Couldn't help but include one with her as well :) sleeping through 'The Colour of Spring' which I hadn't played in years and thoroughly enjoyed. I think it's important to begin her musical education at an early age!
The bed can be folded up, but I don't really bother any more. Last time I tune dem'd the speakers, I did so with the bed down as that's how I spend most of my time listening.
Couldn't help but include one with her as well :) sleeping through 'The Colour of Spring' which I hadn't played in years and thoroughly enjoyed. I think it's important to begin her musical education at an early age!
The bed can be folded up, but I don't really bother any more. Last time I tune dem'd the speakers, I did so with the bed down as that's how I spend most of my time listening.
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Music Lover
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Cant agree more!Charlie1 wrote: I think it's important to begin her musical education at an early age!
Lovely photo. Congrats to you and my best to the mother.
Some of the best moments in life are when looking at the kids dancing in front of our Linn system!
Had a smallish party yesterday and the 18month old danced like never before. Well, she can only turn around and continue until getting dizzy falling down. She then gets up and starts all over again.
Amazing endurance.
Azazello, I hope you used that incident to obtain buy-in for some proper speakers instead of those tiny ones :mrgreen:
[/b]
It's all about musical understanding!
Maybe that will be a good excuse for an upgrade and she can have mine, although I think I'll need a new job for that to happen.vicdiaz wrote:The only drawback is that when she is 15-16 she will not ask for a BMW, she will ask for a Linn system!!!
Wow, that's scary! I do worry about the Akiva in particular, but hadn't thought they could knock over speakers. Do you have dedicated Hi-Fi insurance or just home contents insurance?Azazello wrote:And don't expect to be safe just because of that, my son tripped one of my Ninkas over a few years ago. I was lucky to have both a good dealer and a good insurance compan
This may seem like a coincidence what with the hierarchy topics at the moment and my comment that I'd previously thought my system too source heavy, but I have been thinking the following for a few weeks now.
I can finally say that I'm happy enough with my system to leave it alone and stop investing further and tweaking it. Having said that I do have another upgrade in the pipeline, but if that opportunity had not presented itself, I would have been happy where I am. I also intend to torque screw the speakers and sort out a better platform for the LP12, but apart from all that, I'm done. Not sounding very convincing is it, but it's going to happen!
I think the real break through was the Linto as it finally enabled a much cleaner, tighter and punchier sound to shine through and provide a much better overall balance. The system is no longer too warm and soft (often unfairly blamed on the Ninka's by myself :oops:), although I find it does need the volume turning up well to really get going and entirely satisfy, but this is perhaps normal. I know that this is all Hi-Fi stuff, but until it sounded 'right' to me, I don't think I would have settled no matter how tuneful it was.
Of course it is much much more tuneful and musically involving and despite what some people think, all the small tweaks using the Tune Method really do add up to a substantial improvement. Perhaps we should collate them all within a single topic for newcomers to easily access?
I also need to stop obsessing about the Lejonklou forum - constantly checking for new topics and to see if someone has responded to one of my posts, and get on and listen to more music! (Vic will be pleased that his nagging is having a positive effect :) ). Being the obsessive sort, talking about Hi-Fi has become as much of a hobby as listening to one, but spending too much time on the PC is not very family friendly and spare time should involve more listening and less talk. I don't mind if I check in here once a week and submit the odd post, but things have got a little out of kilter. Let's see if I can keep to my good intentions.
Many thanks to everyone for their support and advice, particularly Fredrik for his many helpful responses and for running such a great forum in managing to balance the difficult task of keeping people in check but allowing a certain amount of freedom. Also to ThomasOK for his generously in-depth answers and willingness to share his knowledge and experience with everyone. Also to ML for this good advice and Leo for his good humour plus liking the Woolies extension block I recommended! I feel like I'm at the Oscar's......
Hope I haven't asked too many daft questions or dreamed up too many silly topics of debate whilst bored at work. I have learned a tremendous amount from the forum and had a bit of a laugh too. Keep it up everyone!
All the best, Charlie1
I can finally say that I'm happy enough with my system to leave it alone and stop investing further and tweaking it. Having said that I do have another upgrade in the pipeline, but if that opportunity had not presented itself, I would have been happy where I am. I also intend to torque screw the speakers and sort out a better platform for the LP12, but apart from all that, I'm done. Not sounding very convincing is it, but it's going to happen!
I think the real break through was the Linto as it finally enabled a much cleaner, tighter and punchier sound to shine through and provide a much better overall balance. The system is no longer too warm and soft (often unfairly blamed on the Ninka's by myself :oops:), although I find it does need the volume turning up well to really get going and entirely satisfy, but this is perhaps normal. I know that this is all Hi-Fi stuff, but until it sounded 'right' to me, I don't think I would have settled no matter how tuneful it was.
Of course it is much much more tuneful and musically involving and despite what some people think, all the small tweaks using the Tune Method really do add up to a substantial improvement. Perhaps we should collate them all within a single topic for newcomers to easily access?
I also need to stop obsessing about the Lejonklou forum - constantly checking for new topics and to see if someone has responded to one of my posts, and get on and listen to more music! (Vic will be pleased that his nagging is having a positive effect :) ). Being the obsessive sort, talking about Hi-Fi has become as much of a hobby as listening to one, but spending too much time on the PC is not very family friendly and spare time should involve more listening and less talk. I don't mind if I check in here once a week and submit the odd post, but things have got a little out of kilter. Let's see if I can keep to my good intentions.
Many thanks to everyone for their support and advice, particularly Fredrik for his many helpful responses and for running such a great forum in managing to balance the difficult task of keeping people in check but allowing a certain amount of freedom. Also to ThomasOK for his generously in-depth answers and willingness to share his knowledge and experience with everyone. Also to ML for this good advice and Leo for his good humour plus liking the Woolies extension block I recommended! I feel like I'm at the Oscar's......
Hope I haven't asked too many daft questions or dreamed up too many silly topics of debate whilst bored at work. I have learned a tremendous amount from the forum and had a bit of a laugh too. Keep it up everyone!
All the best, Charlie1
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Music Lover
- Very active member
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- Location: In front of Lejonklou/JBL/Ofil
Cheers Charlie!
I think it's good if you listen more to music and spend less time behind the computer - something I'll try practicing myself this summer.
But I also have to point out that you have asked a lot of really good and inspiring questions here. None of them daft, all of them contributing to the high quality of this forum!
Thanks and talk to you next week. :!:
I think it's good if you listen more to music and spend less time behind the computer - something I'll try practicing myself this summer.
But I also have to point out that you have asked a lot of really good and inspiring questions here. None of them daft, all of them contributing to the high quality of this forum!
Thanks and talk to you next week. :!:
Obsessive people on Hi-Fi forums???...surely you jest! :)Charlie1 wrote:Being the obsessive sort, talking about Hi-Fi has become as much of a hobby as listening to one...
I don't mind if I check in here once a week and submit the odd post, but things have got a little out of kilter. Let's see if I can keep to my good intentions.
All the best, Charlie1
To be honest I haven't noticed any daft questions just ones that got us thinking.
What is it they say about the road to Hell being paved with good intentions...I see that resolution hasn't panned out so far.
Enjoy the system and the music.
Just re-read your last post Azazello - You're bang on. I think I'll keep quiet about 'no more tweaks' etc as it's never going to happen :D
Run out of cupboard space for LPs so moved them out into the room and positioned to disperse first reflections off the side walls. Seems more tuneful, but haven't actually done a tune dem yet.
I'm just surprised that this has tightened up the sound, especially the bass. Why do first reflections affect the sound in this way? I just thought it would just sound a bit less lively in the room plus a more clearly defined sound stage.
There are still first reflections from the rear wall, so was thinking of trying something to absorb that - I sit up against the wall, so don't think a reflector is suitable. Any thoughts anyone as to whether its worth bothering with?
Lastly, there are first reflections coming off the front wall (just inside each speaker), but no sure whether I should do anything there either, especially as anything positioned there would be very close to the speakers.
Run out of cupboard space for LPs so moved them out into the room and positioned to disperse first reflections off the side walls. Seems more tuneful, but haven't actually done a tune dem yet.
I'm just surprised that this has tightened up the sound, especially the bass. Why do first reflections affect the sound in this way? I just thought it would just sound a bit less lively in the room plus a more clearly defined sound stage.
There are still first reflections from the rear wall, so was thinking of trying something to absorb that - I sit up against the wall, so don't think a reflector is suitable. Any thoughts anyone as to whether its worth bothering with?
Lastly, there are first reflections coming off the front wall (just inside each speaker), but no sure whether I should do anything there either, especially as anything positioned there would be very close to the speakers.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2008-11-22 15:23, edited 1 time in total.
Today my wife asked how I would feel if she played my records during the week whilst I'm at work. I said 'no' obviously, but this is real progress :) Seriously, I did offer to teach her what to do, but I think the responsibility has put her off. Real progress though as she doesn't take much interest usually.
My daughter loves listening to it though (louder the better) and waves her arms about madly, mainly cos I'm dancing around like an idiot trying to entertain her. She gets excited as soon as I put her in the room. Arrr.
My daughter loves listening to it though (louder the better) and waves her arms about madly, mainly cos I'm dancing around like an idiot trying to entertain her. She gets excited as soon as I put her in the room. Arrr.
Time to check into the DS. One thing for sure is that no damage comes to your music collection from anyone using the Linn GUI. Nothing can be accidently moved or deleted.
The networking is not as bad as you might think from reading the Linn forum. This would need to be handled before turning things over to her - the last thing to do is give her any frustration in using the system. Most of the problems come from people that want to do what they want to do instead of doing what works.
My nine year old daughter can use the DS. She has her own playlist with her name on it.
The networking is not as bad as you might think from reading the Linn forum. This would need to be handled before turning things over to her - the last thing to do is give her any frustration in using the system. Most of the problems come from people that want to do what they want to do instead of doing what works.
My nine year old daughter can use the DS. She has her own playlist with her name on it.
I think that's a lovely idea and a great advantage of digital.SaltyDog wrote:My nine year old daughter can use the DS. She has her own playlist with her name on it.
I did offer to buy her a CD player, but she wasn't interested. I think its the record collection she wants to play. I need to dig deeper, but I'm guessing that she just wants to play records for my daughter cos she enjoys it so much.
Thanks for the suggestion though and I will bare a DS in mind for the future as something for all the family to enjoy as you are doing.
Charlie,
Just to give you an idea of how much the DS has changed my life I had only 1 instance of both CD and LP of the same from 1993 to this year. Previously used Karik/Numerik. This wasn't even close to the LP12. Now I'm buying all kinds of CDs and downloads of things already in my LP collection.
I've just played my LP12 for the first time since getting the DS. It is better than I remembered. But - first clean LP with Loricrft PRC3 - clean stylus - turn album over, etc. and still have to tune out surface noise. However I will NEVER part with it.
Considering both the cost difference and convenience I think the Akurate DS is a fantastiK value.
The LP12 sure is just right! Thanks for getting me to give a go today.
Do I sound mixed? I am.
Just to give you an idea of how much the DS has changed my life I had only 1 instance of both CD and LP of the same from 1993 to this year. Previously used Karik/Numerik. This wasn't even close to the LP12. Now I'm buying all kinds of CDs and downloads of things already in my LP collection.
I've just played my LP12 for the first time since getting the DS. It is better than I remembered. But - first clean LP with Loricrft PRC3 - clean stylus - turn album over, etc. and still have to tune out surface noise. However I will NEVER part with it.
Considering both the cost difference and convenience I think the Akurate DS is a fantastiK value.
The LP12 sure is just right! Thanks for getting me to give a go today.
Do I sound mixed? I am.
You're welcome - not sure I really did anything, but glad you enjoyed an LP.SaltyDog wrote:The LP12 sure is just right! Thanks for getting me to give a go today.
I think for convenience sake, digital is much easier and more accessible. But I quite like the involvement of playing vinyl and as the system has got better, the surface noise has reduced to the point where its no longer intrusive.
Glad you're happy with the ADS though.
Finally found the time and enthusiasm to do a tune dem last night having lived with the in-room storage a few weeks.Charlie1 wrote:Run out of cupboard space for LPs so moved them out into the room and positioned to disperse first reflections off the side walls. Seems more tuneful, but haven't actually done a tune dem yet.
It is more tuneful with the LP storage at the first reflection points each side of the room. Probably sounds a bit better without them though as its a little open and lively. Bass is also well controlled without the storage, but gets quite boomy with, so there is obviously something going on there. However, most listening is at low volume so I can put up with that.
Sounds like conflicting results, Charlie...
Acoustics is quite interesting and often a challenge. I suspect that your storage should probably be moved slightly. You might have created one or two new "subcavities" in the room if the storage is placed symmetrically. This can cause a boom in the bass as some frequencies are trapped there.
It's also possible that the room would benefit from placing things in the corners, they reflect a lot of energy.
I don't know what your room looks like, so I'm just tossing ideas around.
Acoustics is quite interesting and often a challenge. I suspect that your storage should probably be moved slightly. You might have created one or two new "subcavities" in the room if the storage is placed symmetrically. This can cause a boom in the bass as some frequencies are trapped there.
It's also possible that the room would benefit from placing things in the corners, they reflect a lot of energy.
I don't know what your room looks like, so I'm just tossing ideas around.
I've moved the left hand LP storage column further away from the speakers, using a mirror to check that it was still catching the first reflections. This minimised the bass boom nicely, so I think you were absolutely right there Fredrik with your 'subcavities' theory.Lejonklou wrote:I suspect that your storage should probably be moved slightly. You might have created one or two new "subcavities" in the room if the storage is placed symmetrically. This can cause a boom in the bass as some frequencies are trapped there.
It then got me thinking why not Tune Dem its position entirely just like a speaker. I'm glad I did this cos I've found a really sweet spot where the music is notiably more tuneful and communicative - down to about 2cm to get the right spot. Oddly, the final position is even further away from the speakers and you can see the back half of the nearest speaker in a mirror when in the listening position. However, it's the best place, so that's where I'll leave it.
Tune Dem'ing the other storage column on the other side was still beneficial but there didn't seem to be such a sweet spot, but that side doesn't have a chimney jutting into the room near by it, so perhaps its just less critical.
Obviously the benefits are on the subtle side in the gland scheme of things (except maybe the bass boom which was more intrusive apart from low listening levels), but I would definitely encourage anyone to have a go and tune dem their furniture if they were considering it :) As if there isn't already enough to do :roll: I dread the idea of moving house - I'll need to take a week off work just to sort the stereo out!