Power cords

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2010-01-12 21:52

Another update is in order. I had a few uninterrupted hours yesterday to do some listening and comparing at home and was able to compare a couple more power cables.

The two new power cables I tried were both from Naim Audio - a standard US Naim power cable with the name "Well Shin" on the wire and a PowerLine. I remember reading a couple of years ago that Naim USA had evaluated a bunch of cables and had found one they particularly liked and many of the Naim users were really pleased with it. I think (but I am not sure) that this became the standard power cable for US bound Naim components. Of course, the Naim PowerLine is their $700+US power cable that a few on other forums have recommended for Linn gear.

As I didn't have a lot of time for the testing (the cables were on loan and had to go back) I only did the tests with one component: my Radikal. As I had seen at least one recommendation of using the PowerLine with a Radikal this seemed a good choice for the comparison, it is also relatively easy to do. I used two different pieces of music: a piece by Steely Dan that moves along pretty well and a solo acoustic piano piece by Egberto Gismonti.

What I expected to hear: the Naim pacey, direct sound was somewhat the opposite of what I heard. The Naim PowerLine seemed to slow down the tempo and make it a bit harder to follow. It also made things less tuneful which it seemed to do by dulling the harmonic structure of the notes. The piano sounded almost as though a thin layer of fabric had ben laid on the strings and was dulling the overtones. It sounded like a lesser quality piano and the quality of playing, of the touch on the keys, was lessened. There was the same dulling and muddling of guitar, cymbals, vocals and a triangle on the Steely Dan cut. What was also surprising was that, while it dulled down the harmonics it also emphasized the surface noise on both records making the groove noise a fair bit louder compared to the music than on my Linn Tongyuan/Hubbell cable. Overall I found it a fair bit harder to get into the music with the Naim cable and the surface noise changed from something I didn't really notice on the Linn cable to annoying on the Naim.

When I tested the stock Naim Well Shin cable I heard the same kinds of things but to a lesser degree. It still was harder to follow the notes and the rhythm was less well defined and sluggish but not to the degree it was with the PowerLine. It sounded to me as though the PowerLine had a bigger negative effect on the music than the Well Shin but both pushed things in the same direction.

I was not able to compare the Naim cables with any of the other cables so any additional comments are from memory and not to be completely trusted. However, I believe that any of the better power cables I have tested: the Linn Volex Tongyuan , Ta Hsing and Baohing and the Lejonklou Power One would musically outperform the Naim PowerLine with no problem and would perform at least a bit better than the Naim Well Shin too.

Addendum: I failed to mention this when I posted this but both Naim power cables were burned in on the Nordost Vidar machine as well as having been in use on Naim equipment before I borrowed them. I also have used the Vidar on all the other power cables so that burn in is not a factor in the comparisons.

paolo · Post by **paolo** » 2010-01-13 17:08

I completely concur with Thomas' findings about Powerline.
When it came out in the market I did try it on a Chakra 2200 and on Lingo and both clearly changed for the worse. Though I found the sound somehow pleasant, both timing and cohesion were seriously compromised, resulting in music being much harder to follow.

There was some reports also in this old thread http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... =powerline

Paolo

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2010-01-18 15:54

Thomas, are those the only power cords you've experimented with on the Radikal?

Linntek · Post by **Linntek** » 2010-01-20 20:58

http://www.music-line.biz/shop/product_ ... ce16b74cd7

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2010-01-20 22:50

Tony Tune-age wrote:Thomas, are those the only power cords you've experimented with on the Radikal?

Yes Tony, so far those are the only ones I've tried on the Radikal. As you cab see earlier in this thread I tried a fair few different AC cables on other Linn components and the Linn Tongyuan are still the ones I like the best with the Linn Ta Hsing second.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2010-01-20 22:52

Linntek wrote:http://www.music-line.biz/shop/product_ ... ce16b74cd7

I noticed that when I went to this link it said that customers who bought this cable also bought ceramic mugs...I suppose to suspend their cables on. :)

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2010-01-22 00:27

Thanks for sharing your experience with power cords on the Linn Radikal. There have been a few after-market power cords which I've tried on the Linn Lingo and Radikal, but not the same cords as you. Much to my surprise they can make a positive sonic improvement 8) .

Efraim roots · Post by **Efraim roots** » 2010-01-26 00:00

There is something strange in how Linn cables suits Linn and Naim suits Naim. I tested a standard Naim cable today called 'I sheng' on the Lingo2 and it became very boring sounding, the 'ching cheng' outperormed it, more tuneful and fun. When I tried the 'I sheng' vs 'Ching Cheng' on Naim amplification, the I sheng was better. The Ching Cheng was more tuneful but also sucked the life out of the music in some way, sounded flat. The 'I sheng' was more clear, dynamic and rytmic and somehow this felt much more right and I came to the conclusion this was the winner of the two. A bit of tune dem dilemma because 'Ching cheng' was more tuneful but also lifeless.

Maybe this Naim Powerline is great with Naim? Would be interesting to hear more reports about that too.

When I tried Lejonklu kikkin with Naim poweramps NAP110 and NAP200 it just don't feel right aswell, they don't integrate with eachothers musical character.

Also I demoed the Naim Nait XS with Lejonklou Kinki2 and Naim stageline. I was sure the Kinki2 must be better but when I heard the difference I was very confused. The Kinki2 sounded thin and little confused, there was more happening in the music but it didn't feel tight. With stageline it became richer sound and more tight, less notes being played but it was musically tighter. I really doubt that a stageline would outperform a kinki2 on a Linn preamp. I don't know what happens when you climb the Naim ladder if the better preamps will handle Kinki2 better, I will do a demo soon I think as Im using Naim amplification 202/200 with Kinki2.

This maybe has something to do with that some Naim people do like pre-cirkus better aswell. There seems to be some kind of conflict going on between these characters of musicality..

Post by **lejonklou** » 2010-01-26 23:18

My findings differ from yours, roots man. I do agree that to a certain extent, power cords can work slightly differently in different systems. I still find it surprising that not all systems react in the same way when replacing power cords.

This system dependancy is however very small - I still have a bunch of the Ching Chengs that you mention and don't find them very good in comparison with the newer and better cords. Not in any system. So in my opinion it's at least 90% "the quality of the cord" that matters and less than 10% "works well in this system".

In a similar way, I also think most good HiFi components can be mixed and the result will be musically good. The matching of components is again a low percentage of the final result. Lots of people in this business focus on optimal matching, but I think this often comes as a result of 1) focusing on the sound rather than the music, 2) using an inferior source and/or 3) not having a properly installed system.

When the reproduction is not convincing to begin with, the quest for perfect matching easily results in hiding one problem behind another.

Just my 2 cents.

Efraim roots · Post by **Efraim roots** » 2010-01-27 00:28

Lejonklou, that give me hope that you feel confident on this. Life gets easier that way :) I will try some more if I find good power cords and see if this Linn Naim conflict is for real or just a case of my hasty experimentation.

But I still feel that there is something very fundamental different in what makes Linn and Naim good. And as the tests with Kikkin+NAP shows, they not always benefit from eachother.. But ofcourse this could also be something else, like Anders from Tonläget said, there might be something going on with the earthing..

Efraim roots · Post by **Efraim roots** » 2010-01-27 02:40

Now I did organised proper tune dems with the power cords I have and results are very logical and you are right Lejonklou (as usual).

The cables I got is:
'Tongyuan' (supplied by Linn)
'Ching Cheng' (supplied by Linn)
'I Sheng' (supplied by Naim)

I tried 'Ching Cheng' vs 'I Sheng' on my Naim nap200/nac202. I sheng was the winner even if the ching cheng was tuneful in its presentation it was kind of lifeless and I sheng was more right even if it sounded little cold and hardhitting rytmwize.

Then tried 'I Sheng' vs 'Tongyuan' were tongyuan was better, it was more emotive and tuneful, simply better. I sheng sounds as I said little cold (less emotive) and hardhitting rythmwize.

Then I went to the Lingo and tried 'Ching Cheng' vs 'I sheng' and the winner is I sheng. The Ching cheng is tuneful but somewhat dull/slow and not very good bass timeing. The I sheng is more clear, lively and 'right'.

And as I tested before I know that 'Tongyuan' is superior to the I sheng on the Lingo. Everything very logical at last, I must beware of those hasty experiments and do things proper.

Power cords ranking:
1# TONGYUAN
2# I SHENG
3# CHING CHENG (quite boring)

donuk · Post by **donuk** » 2010-03-05 09:06

Hi guys,
My system is Dynavector 20XL, LP12/Circus/Lingo1/Ittok, Majik control, 2100+Dynamik, Ninka speakers. Also Naim CD5+Flatcap.

A friend recently lent me a Naim Powerline to play around with (I am a bit of a sad experimenter with mains cables, mainly home-made. I concluded that it is very difficult to improve upon the cables that come in the box with the equipment.)

I tried the powerline on various parts of my vinyl playback system. I found that on the Control and 2100 it made a significant difference to the sound, but ruined it. Timing went, everything louder, more bass, and an artifical sounding treble that made high notes "shine" if you can understand what I mean.

Then I tried it on my Lingo 1. Astonishing improvement. Much more tuneful, rhythms tighter, background details appear, much more tied together sound.

The other thing is, that I swear that my CD5 sounds better even though the cable is on the Lingo. Could the powerline be providing some sort of mains filtering function? I understand that the Lingos are known to do bad things to the mains, and it might be the the Powerline isolates mine a bit from the rest of what is going on.

Anyway it is such a clear improvement that one is on order.

By the way, while I have got the attention of you wise people, what is the weak link in my system now? If you were to upgrade one box, what would it be?

Thanks
don

Moomintroll · Post by **Moomintroll** » 2010-03-05 14:17

Glad to hear you're having fun.

I'm not sure how much truth (if any) there is in the Ling doing "bad things to the mains". I'm sure this story came about due to earthing issues experienced by Naim pre-amp users when they added the Lingo and their pre-amp had been relying upon earth to the LP12. There was (still is I think) a modified cable from Linn (CONN 401E) which corrects this. Search the Naim Forum for "CONN 401E" for the full (?) story.

This won't be the issue here.

Can't imagine why your CD should sound any different with the Powerline on the Lingo. Does it sound better still if the Lingo is completely unplugged from the mains?

Upgrade - if you listen to more LPs than CDs, then consider a Radikal to replace the Lingo. If more CDs than LPs, then listen to a Linn DS.

Have fun.

'troll

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2010-03-05 14:17

donuk wrote:By the way, while I have got the attention of you wise people, what is the weak link in my system now? If you were to upgrade one box, what would it be?

Hi Don. To my mind there is nothing that leaps out so depends what you're looking for really.

Radikal would be biggest boost to musicality and also improve the sound quite a lot too.

2nd hand Mk 1 KK would give you more musicality and better controlled and refined sound - less hi-fi and impressive though. 2nd hand Exotic with Dynamik is another good option but not heard it myself

6100 + aktiv cards would give you better musicality and flow and expand the sound way beyond the speakers. Not heard 4200 aktiv but that should be even better.

Majik speakers would give you cleaner and smoother less distorted sound.

Radikal would be my first choice as it's the greatest musical leap I've heard and also a substantial sound improvement. Maybe check out Majik speakers after that if you want to focus more on cleaner sound.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2010-03-05 14:19

Moomintroll wrote:Upgrade - if you listen to more LPs than CDs, then consider a Radikal to replace the Lingo. If more CDs than LPs, then listen to a Linn DS.

I forgot about the CD player so I think Troll's advice above is best to follow.

donuk · Post by **donuk** » 2010-03-07 17:55

Thanks guys - what a friendly forum this is!

Perhaps the beneficial effect the Powerline is having on my CD player (which it is not connected to) is more psychological than electronic! More likely the affect of unplugging all the equipment and plugging it in again, making the interconnect and power cables tidier could well account for a little more life in the CD player.

I should have mentioned that my LP12 has a Tramp2 which is sitting on Isoblue supports. I will enjoy things as they are at the moment, and perhaps consider active later on.

Cheers, Don

Ludwig271 · Post by **Ludwig271** » 2010-03-07 20:31

lejonklou wrote:My findings differ from yours, roots man. I do agree that to a certain extent, power cords can work slightly differently in different systems. I still find it surprising that not all systems react in the same way when replacing power cords.

This system dependancy is however very small - I still have a bunch of the Ching Chengs that you mention and don't find them very good in comparison with the newer and better cords. Not in any system. So in my opinion it's at least 90% "the quality of the cord" that matters and less than 10% "works well in this system".

In a similar way, I also think most good HiFi components can be mixed and the result will be musically good. The matching of components is again a low percentage of the final result. Lots of people in this business focus on optimal matching, but I think this often comes as a result of 1) focusing on the sound rather than the music, 2) using an inferior source and/or 3) not having a properly installed system.

When the reproduction is not convincing to begin with, the quest for perfect matching easily results in hiding one problem behind another.

Just my 2 cents.

My system consists of:
Unidisk1.1
Kairn
4xLK140
Keltik
In the past I did a lot some mess with power cables (shortening, changing plugs, etc.). I would now like to restore my gear with best LINN power cables.
Please advise type, manufacturer and where can I buy them. I live in Milan Italy, but I can place an order to any European supplier through Internet (if supplier does have it and can ship to Italy).
Thanks.
Ludwig

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2010-03-07 22:28

Charlie1 wrote:
Moomintroll wrote:Upgrade - if you listen to more LPs than CDs, then consider a Radikal to replace the Lingo. If more CDs than LPs, then listen to a Linn DS.
I forgot about the CD player so I think Troll's advice above is best to follow.

I agree with this as well. Another interim step might be to upgrade the Lingo 1 to a Lingo 2 as it is quite a bit less expensive than the Radikal (but nowhere near as big a musical improvement). Although you might want to wait a little on upgrading to a newer Lingo until the dust settles on the new announcements.

I wasn't able to try the Naim Powerline on a Lingo but your findings on the other Linn equipment is similar to what I found trying one in my system. As noted earlier, I did find the same kinds of problems with using it on the Radikal in my setup.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2010-03-08 01:37

Ludwig271 wrote:In the past I did a lot some mess with power cables (shortening, changing plugs, etc.). I would now like to restore my gear with best LINN power cables.

Hi Ludwig and welcome here!

I'm afraid it's not easy to find the very best sounding power cords. Currently Linn supply cords from Volex and I think these are very good. The problem arises when you try to order them: There are many variations. It doesn't really help trying to order them directly from Volex either, as they have a policy of changing parts without saying so.

Last year my stock of Power One cords ran out and I really needed good sounding cords for both US, UK and European markets. I spent a lot of time searching and making connections with people who kindly helped me getting cords with the right specifications. I am particularly pleased with the UK model, which is an out of stock model that I bought the entire last batch of. But you need European Shuko cords and I still have some of the best model for sale:
http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=600

If you need any further help or advice, have you spoken to Paolo of Key Systems, in Rome? He's a very competent retailer!

Ludwig271 · Post by **Ludwig271** » 2010-03-08 09:13

lejonklou wrote:
Ludwig271 wrote:In the past I did a lot some mess with power cables (shortening, changing plugs, etc.). I would now like to restore my gear with best LINN power cables.
Hi Ludwig and welcome here!

I'm afraid it's not easy to find the very best sounding power cords. Currently Linn supply cords from Volex and I think these are very good. The problem arises when you try to order them: There are many variations. It doesn't really help trying to order them directly from Volex either, as they have a policy of changing parts without saying so.

Last year my stock of Power One cords ran out and I really needed good sounding cords for both US, UK and European markets. I spent a lot of time searching and making connections with people who kindly helped me getting cords with the right specifications. I am particularly pleased with the UK model, which is an out of stock model that I bought the entire last batch of. But you need European Shuko cords and I still have some of the best model for sale:
http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=600

If you need any further help or advice, have you spoken to Paolo of Key Systems, in Rome? He's a very competent retailer!

Thanks for your quick reply.
I just read some posts on the link you mentioned above and checked my cables:
Unidisk1.1: Ching Cheng-writing from unit to wall
Kairn: Ching Cheng-writing from wall to unit
LK140's:Pirelli-writing from wall to units
Do power cables need any time to perform at best?
What do you suggest to do?
Thanks.
Ludwig

Post by **lejonklou** » 2010-03-08 13:38

I can send you some power cords to try. Then you can decide whether the improvement is worth the expense. If not, you just return them.

I've sent you a pm.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2010-03-09 15:32

lejonklou wrote:I also think most good HiFi components can be mixed and the result will be musically good. The matching of components is again a low percentage of the final result. Lots of people in this business focus on optimal matching, but I think this often comes as a result of 1) focusing on the sound rather than the music, 2) using an inferior source and/or 3) not having a properly installed system.

When the reproduction is not convincing to begin with, the quest for perfect matching easily results in hiding one problem behind another.

Good point Lejonklou, that might explain why some lower priced systems can sound better than more expensive systems (i.e., not having a properly installed system, etc.).

Pedro · Post by **Pedro** » 2011-05-21 11:56

New standard Power Cord from LINN

On occasion of upgrading my RADIKAL with the new DYNAMIK at my dealer, I noticed that the new RADIKAL had new Power cord type: “… Longwell –P 2011”. The name is on the cable and on the plugs (Schuko and connector plug).
At home I compared the new power cord with my favourite, the LINN “Tongyuan” power cord.

I found the new one considerably more musical.

Same findings with the UNIDISK 1.1, AK KONTROL and CHAKRA 4200.
Rest of the hifi-system is LP 12 SE with URIKA and AKIVA and KELTIKs (torque-settings details for speaker adjustements from Thomas were very helpfull !).

I have tried the new power cord on all equipment and the musicalty increases.

During the plugging I noticed, that the connector plug fits like a glove in contrast to the TONGYUAN connector, which is a little a wobbly.

Has anyone else tried the new power cord?

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-05-21 18:05

Well Pedro, this is interesting news which I read with both anticipation and a little dread. The dread comes from the idea of having to change over all my beloved Tongyuan cables for Longwell versions and doing the tests to confirm their superiority and whether they, too, are more musical with Hubbell AC plugs. The anticipation is over being able to upgrade my system yet again at a quite modest price. Also dread because it makes my "unobtanium" Tongyuan-wired system less exclusive countered by the anticipation of being able to maximize the performance of all my customer's systems as well.

I have not seen a "Longwell" Linn power cord in the US yet. The most recent unit I received from Linn (about two weeks ago) still came with the Ta Hsing cable. Of course, Linn go through cables for different areas at different rates so it could be a while before they go through their stash of North American Ta Hsing cables. I look forward to hearing the Longwells whenever they do manage to get them into the US market.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-05-21 18:41

I agree with you, Pedro. The new Longwell cable is indeed very musical. I have so far only seen it in Shuko (Euro) version, in the UK it seems a Volex cord is still supplied.

I have tried some other variations from Longwell, with other plugs and connectors, and found another model which is about as good as the one Linn supplies. Other models have been worse, so the name Longwell doesn't guarantee anything.

What I'd like to know is which direction of the Longwell cord sounds best. I first borrowed one which had the text on the cable running from wall to product (I call this WITH TEXT). Now I've bought one with the text going from product to wall (AGAINST TEXT). But I haven't had the chance to compare them. Anybody knows?

Power cords

New Linn Power cord with Schuko plug