Exakt

[MisterH]

Of course, pricing is relative and value is even more difficult to define and Lejonklou prices look very reasonable on the surface. But this has to be compared against the quality of the finish on the product and the level of support offered by the dealers (which is variable of course), rather than just the components in the box.

I do agree price and value are not the same, but to say Lejonklou look reasonable on the surface I think is unfair. I'm not sure whether you have listened to his products, but that is what value should be based on, not on finish, certainly that is what I considered when I compared them to Linn products, which I found you would have to spend a lot more even for used to get the same quality of product.

In fact I have not heard a Linn product that reproduces music as well as Lejonklou at any price.

As for dealer support when I took the plunge and decided to go the Lejonklou route I did have one or two concerns, but having met Chris my fears were unfounded and I can honestly say you would not be disappointed by his service.

[anthony]

I have heard exakt crossovers with Fredriks power amps, the two worked well.
So I think they can coexist on this forum.

[tokenbrit]

Of course, pricing is relative and value is even more difficult to define and Lejonklou prices look very reasonable on the surface. But this has to be compared against the quality of the finish on the product and the level of support offered by the dealers (which is variable of course), rather than just the components in the box.

I do agree price and value are not the same, but to say Lejonklou look reasonable on the surface I think is unfair. I'm not sure whether you have listened to his products, but that is what value should be based on, not on finish, certainly that is what I considered when I compared them to Linn products, which I found you would have to spend a lot more even for used to get the same quality of product.

There also quality of finish of the product, not just on... Fredrik tunes each one, including final components & specific torques - a level of production detail unmatched by Linn. Level of Lejonklou support is exemplary too, with component upgrades such as Tundra Stereo from 1.0 to 1.1 to 1.2, and the forthcoming Tundra Mono to Mono 2, whether through dealers or return to Fredrik. Obviously Linn do this too with their DS products, and previous Dynamik power supply upgrades.

Yes, Anthony - good to see the launch of the Exaktboxes such that customers have a choice of power amps, and speakers subject to the necessary support & digital crossover configuration being available.

(bringing the thread back to Exakt ;)

[tokenbrit]

As for dealer support when I took the plunge and decided to go the Lejonklou route I did have one or two concerns, but having met Chris my fears were unfounded and I can honestly say you would not be disappointed by his service.

I was leaving the thread to get back to Exakt but wanted to echo this, completely, for ThomasOK in the US.

Curious of those that listen to Exakt, and find it better than Klimax, do you listen more predominantly to digital or analogue? How does Klimax LP12, in particular, compare through the digital ADC-DAC path in Klimax Exakt against a comparable spec analogue Klimax system? When I listened to a top spec Exakt system, it was more in the context of demoing Exakt setup and audibility of source changes: digital formats; NASs; LP12 power supplies, rather than differences between all analogue Klimax & Klimax Exakt.

[u252agz]

Listened to a Klimax exact/ Akudoric system set up by Linn.

The initial reaction was wow - this sounds great ( certainly better than some active Linn systems I have listened to) ; but very quickly this feeling was replaced with ' where is the music'.

Of more concern was the fact that it sounded much better at the back of the ( large) room - than the middle - where the large chairs were. Still not nearly engaging enough.

Sounds like someone has extracted the sounds ( tweeter/mid/bass) buffed them up till they sound really good , but then struggled to put them back in exactly the right place.

I am sure there is huge potential in exact - but i suspect there is quite a bit of learning and tweaking which needs to be done to match a well set up single wire passive system. Once sorted - I am sure it will be good.

[Ozzzy189]

It bloody well should be good now considering how much it costs! I'm not bashing linn but their equipment doesn't make my feet tap like Fredrik's in any way shape or form. Lejonklou just gets it, and then does it. And it works, fu*##ng brilliantly. People seem very keen to have opinions on things they've never heard, fine, but don't discount those views of the ones that have.
Exakt - the end of the lin(n)e?

[mrco99]

Frankly, I don't understand the agressiveness and tone of your post. Imo it does not add any weight to the discussion. Maybe it is meant rather tongue in cheek, then sorry that I don't get the point.

I have a deep respect for both Linn and Fredrik Lejonklou's products.
I even wonder if we had ever seen any of Fredriks products without Linn being around as an inspiration.

[Ozzzy189]

Maybe it came across the wrong way, I maybe I was being a little protective of a brand I truly believe in after reading sunbeamgls post? Anyway, i can certainly appreciate the direction linn want to go but do you not think the end result is a bit clinical? Yes, it was a little bit tongue in cheek, hence the play on words at the end, I personally have heard exakt at three different dealers now and it's just doesn't make the hairs on the back of my neck go up. You know that amazing feeling that you can sometimes get when you are connected to the tune in that special way? Well I seriously don't know why or how, and the reason I said about Fredrik just 'getting it'. He does, massively.
There's also that end of the road with exakt too, and from a personal point of view I'm sure it's not a road I'll ever take as I believe you can achieve astonishing musical results elsewhere for a lot less money.
How would people feel if they were locked in so to speak? No upgrades, no tinkering, would there even be discussion on those things due to the very nature of the technology?

[hcl]

...
There's also that end of the road with exakt too, and from a personal point of view I'm sure it's not a road I'll ever take as I believe you can achieve astonishing musical results elsewhere for a lot less money.
How would people feel if they were locked in so to speak? No upgrades, no tinkering, would there even be discussion on those things due to the very nature of the technology?

I do not fully understand that view, I mean, if a system performs at an extremely high level, such that one gets much more from music than through any other system at a similar price, then what is the problem? Exakt can do that (yes, I have tried it at home) and at a performance-price relation a lot better than previous Linn systems (or any other that I know of, for that matter).

If one has hifi as a hobby, fine, then one would probably change units, try different approaches... to develop the hobby, but if one is only interested in the music. I just want the best system to play my stuff!

[Ozzzy189]

I totally get that but my issue was I don't find it particularly musical, especially after listening to sagatun and tundra monos, which to be fair is still a significant amount of money!

[u252agz]

To clarify my earlier post re Klimax exact/akudoric, which seems to have instigated a rather heated discussion;

It was a very impressive system.

The clarity, sound staging, and all sorts of other hi fi parameters were excellent - better than many other active ( and passive) Linn systems I have heard; and for the price point - not bad at all.

For many people this will be a revelation and and they will, quite rightly derive enourmous pleasure from the system.

For others however, who may value musicality/engagment/ involvement more than the above; the system I listened to, was not quite as good ( in this respect) , as many well installed and balanced passive systems.

I have a feeling that personal preferences re the hifi parameters vs musicality will dictate the choice of systems and also leads to very polarised view points, with ardent supporters in both camps.

Having recently moved from a basic active system in the past to a less basic passive system - I can appreciate the merits of both, but these days, have a clear preference for the latter.

Lejonklou products have helped to cement this viewpoint over the last two years, with their focus on musicality, and the Linn KDS is a masterpiece front end. The 242s are pretty special as well.

Once the exact system is further developed and refined - this may change; but only if the analogue systems stay stationary.

This seems unlikely, and the next few years should be interesting.

As customers we should be grateful for the research and development in both camps and the choices available to enjoy our music.

[Ozzzy189]

Thank you for putting into more appropriate words what I was trying to get across.
It's a good day today

[hcl]

I totally get that but my issue was I don't find it particularly musical, especially after listening to sagatun and tundra monos, which to be fair is still a significant amount of money!

Without some kind of source and speakers I do not think the Sagatun and Monos sounds very much at all...

[tokenbrit]

That's the beauty of them, hcl: they don't add any sound - they just allow music, musicianship, emotion, and meaning through from source to speakers, whatever those may be ;)

[Ozzzy189]

I totally get that but my issue was I don't find it particularly musical, especially after listening to sagatun and tundra monos, which to be fair is still a significant amount of money!

Without some kind of source and speakers I do not think the Sagatun and Monos sounds very much at all...

Aye, they're absolutely dreadful without speakers especially.

[Music Lover]

I fully understand the differences between opinions but I like to raise my biggest concern with Exakt.

Why not fully integrating Exakt in the speakers, reducing cables and overall complexity - taking full advantage of the technology?

Regarding architecture, you have two complete opposite approaches:
1. Everything matters
Cable lengths/orientation, isolation and separation, optimizing every step etc.
That approach ultimately leads towards using separate units, putting them on Harmoni-hylla and possibly also towards a passive system (not so sure here)

2. Fully integration
More an engineering approach with focus on the total package taking full advantage of the technology evolution.


With the market CLEARLY moving fast towards the integration approach, I'm rather surprised (and I admit, also deeply worried) that Linn decided to develop Exakt with the need of a separate unit outside the speakers.
More or less with only important duty to convert the signal to the Exakt Link protocol sending the music to the speakers.
Separate units drive cost, complexity and reduce the ability to take advantage of the technical evolution.
If you have an analogue source, connect it to your Exakt speaker.
Likely, Linn going to release a phono module with inbuilt A/D anyway...
Need a display you say? For what, use the app.

To summarize.
I predict Exakt mkII with everything in speakers with support of wireless streaming.
Will Linn be able to transform their products before the customers pick other products?

Consumers of today have a personalized device they use for EVERYTHING, selecting music included. To use a specific Linn app is ONE hurdle when they like using THEIR favorite app and forget about cables, NAS and other limitations.
Linn should be able to offer a simple solution for the "tomorrows buyer" with options for the truly dedicated which are ok with specific arrangements obtaining optimum performance.

Exakt mkI is for me a technology dead-end. THAT is my biggest concern.
Quite sure Linn going to address the performance but who will buy their products if the market consider them obsolete?

[lejonklou]

Sounds like someone has extracted the sounds ( tweeter/mid/bass) buffed them up till they sound really good , but then struggled to put them back in exactly the right place.

This quote sums up my impressions of four different Exakt systems. All of them lacked homogenity and an easy, natural flow.

Others have been super impressed by the very same systems. So the sensitivity to this lack of homogenity apparently differs between us.

To me this phenomenon resembles how (old) DLP projectors could give you the sensation of rainbows all over the screen when you moved your eyes. People who had not yet discovered this phenomenon were completely unaware of it. But once they had the rainbows pointed out to them, they couldn't stop seeing them. And many became irritated and didn't like DLP technology as a result.

For a couple of years, I was very impressed by the 4K and 3K arrays that were first used in Komri and later introduced in other speaker models. After having lived with 212's and started listening to Klångedang T1's, however, I gradually became aware of how the drive units in the arrays didn't overlap one another perfectly. That is: The character of each drive unit differs from the others and instead of them blending into one smooth whole - the music - I can easily by ear pick them out one by one. Klångedang T1 is the complete opposite in this respect, so it deserves credit for raising my awareness in this matter. After a while I couldn't stop myself from hearing this lack of homogenity in the arrays. And when I mentioned this to others that I was listening with, they often started hearing it too.

Now please note that I think Linn speakers are very good and I often recommend them. I have struggled to find decent alternatives, especially floorstanding full range models. I am perhaps overly critical, but most big speakers just make me want to switch the music off after five minutes - they are simply too annoying. I don't feel this with any of Linn's analogue models, but I am nevertheless annoyed with the lack of homogenity in the arrays.

With Exakt, I feel this resolution-at-the-expensive-of-homogenity is taken to a new level. From the drive units to the individual sounds that the music is made of. If the Tune Method is interpreted as "I can easily tell all the sounds and instruments apart" or "I can hear the music very clearly", then Exakt scores high. But if the Tune Method is about understanding the language of music - which I claim is what it's all about! - then the score is low.

[Azazello]

Quite sure Linn going to address the performance

I don't really see why they would? They seem to be quite happy with it as it is? And also, given what we have learned from Linnofils experiments with different storage solutions, it's quite obvious that the digital domain is very sensitive in ways that are very hard to understand. That makes it very hard for me to believe that digitization of an analogue signal will ever be an advantage (as in a LP12-Exakt system).

[Linncredible]

1. Everything matters
Cable lengths/orientation, isolation and separation, optimizing every step etc.
That approach ultimately leads towards using separate units, putting them on Harmoni-hylla and possibly also towards a passive system (not so sure here)

Hi ML
Are you implying that attention to detail when it comes to installation of aktive and/or Exakt systems are not as important as when it comes to passive systems?!?

[Music Lover]

To me this phenomenon resembles how (old) DLP projectors could give you the sensation of rainbows all over the screen when you moved your eyes.

After a while I couldn't stop myself from hearing this lack of homogenity in the arrays. And when I mentioned this to others that I was listening with, they often started hearing it too.

Interesting. For you, is it this a sound issue or a musical issue?
If it only impact the sound, not such a big deal. Or is it once you observe it?
But if it impacting the musicality, it sure is!
Question; do you hear it on ALL array speakers, 2k, 3k and 4k?
And do you hear it on Exakt speakers?

For me, the important item in a projector is motion flow. Some projectors can't handle movements without acting as a stroboscope. As NOTHING moves in small fast steps in reality, nothing - it's killing the experience for me.
I see rainbows but that is ok, nothing I have issues with. Flashes exists in real life as well.

[Music Lover]

If the Tune Method is interpreted as "I can easily tell all the sounds and instruments apart" or "I can hear the music very clearly", then Exakt scores high. But if the Tune Method is about understanding the language of music - which I claim is what it's all about! - then the score is low.

Agreed!
These two different approaches to Tune Dem existed long before the Exakt release - so I wasn't surprised reading about different opinions.

[Music Lover]

Quite sure Linn going to address the performance

I don't really see why they would? They seem to be quite happy with it as it is? And also, given what we have learned from Linnofils experiments with different storage solutions, it's quite obvious that the digital domain is very sensitive in ways that are very hard to understand. That makes it very hard for me to believe that digitization of an analogue signal will ever be an advantage (as in a LP12-Exakt system).

Would, should or could?

It's very clear that Linn enhanced the musical performance of Exakt systems since the first release aug-2013.

Talking with Gilad, he is more interested in few bigger enhancements compared with many small tweaks. Obviously that approach also worked well during his leadership where Dynamik and many other great enhancements have been released.

But I have same fear as you.
In my dreams, I see both approaches combined together!!

[Music Lover]

1. Everything matters
Cable lengths/orientation, isolation and separation, optimizing every step etc.
That approach ultimately leads towards using separate units, putting them on Harmoni-hylla and possibly also towards a passive system (not so sure here)

Hi ML
Are you implying that attention to detail when it comes to installation of aktive and/or Exakt systems are not as important as when it comes to passive systems?!?

Not at all.
Quite the opposite actually. The better system and the more complex, it can sound very strange if not installed with the very highest attention to detail.

But ALL systems should be installed with very highest attention to detail - active or passive.

[u252agz]

Fascinating series of posts starting with Fredriks.

I think I can appreciate the lack of homogeneity in the 242s after reading Fredriks description,- but it does not annoy me at all, and I continue to enjoy the music, as well as the sound.

I certainly heard the lack of homogeneity and flow in the Exact system,but here the music disappeared, and the sound quickly became irrelevant. This was not acceptable, as a boundary had been crossed on the musical front.

I have a feeling that both of the above are different points on the same spectrum and that we all have our individual preferences and boundaries.

It would be interesting to compare 242s to the T1s but I am not sure I want to really discover the answer - I am enjoying the music too much to then discover that there is yet another level that I should be aspiring to. Maybe after a few years when I have had my fill of the 242s.

Also, accepting that the T1s are more musical ( Fredrik is usually correct in these matters), would I be able to live without some of the lovely sounds coming from the 242s.

I suspect I would, but am too frightened to go down that road, at this present moment in time.

I am just grateful that we have such great products to compare and contrast; and find our own particular sweet spot between musicality and sound.

[Charlie1]

For a couple of years, I was very impressed by the 4K and 3K arrays that were first used in Komri and later introduced in other speaker models. After having lived with 212's and started listening to Klångedang T1's, however, I gradually became aware of how the drive units in the arrays didn't overlap one another perfectly. That is: The character of each drive unit differs from the others and instead of them blending into one smooth whole - the music - I can easily by ear pick them out one by one.

What did you think of the Akubarik's Fredrik, in this respect?