Posted: 2011-10-18 12:18
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/
It is now being imported into the US and was reviewed recently in the Absolute Sound, might have been reviewed in Stereophile too. Aimed pretty much directly at the VPI 16.5 but is a little more expensive. I was surprised and disappointed to see that the importer raised the price $100 immediately after it received the good reviews. Might have an effect on the reviewer's feeling of value for money.Linntek wrote:Anyone tried this one
http://www.okkinokki.co.uk/
Seems like a fair price - if it works..
Klaus, could you please tell me what record cleaning machine you have?k_numigl wrote:For the famous Hannl RCMs there's a 'Rotation Brush' available...
That's not a bad idea, one of my friends own a vpi record cleaning machine and he'll bring it over periodically for me to use too!Broccoli wrote:Sounds really interesting. I'm thinking one should by one of those machines, maybe share it with a few people to reduce investment cost.
Presently I let them spin for a couple of minutes 2,3,4 - depending on myBroccoli wrote: I am curious to know how long it takes to clean each side of a record?
But I agree, naturally, that the survey can be downgradedlejonklou wrote: The normal approach would be to just try and see how you like it.
This fits to the following comment from the Audiogon Forum:ThomasOK wrote: Finally, I do believe I have an answer for Klaus as to why new records sound better after a cleaning and it does have to do with mold release compounds. This information also comes from the maker of the AI fluids who has done a large amount of research into perfecting the cleaning fluids and has studied what is in the groove thoroughly in order to understand what is needed for best cleaning. We talked about mold release compounds and I had always thought, as I believe Klaus and many others did, that this was something sprayed on the stamper before it pressed the record. It turns out that this is not the case at all. Mold release compound is actually a material that is mixed in with the vinyl that is released by the heat and pressure of pressing the disk and allows the vinyl to be easily removed from the stamper. He is not sure the exact substance used currently but in the mid 1900s it was
actually vegetable oil! This compound not only allows it to release from the stamper but is also necessary to keep the PVC pliable. He pointed out that PVC left out in the sun for years has this compound leach out and becomes very brittle. Interestingly, this oil also gradually leaches out of the grooves so even a record that had a thorough 3 step cleaning when new might benefit musically from a single step cleaning after a year or so. The things we do to care for our records!
If you keep the fluid well mixed (brushing), the concentration gradientThomasOK wrote: Interestingly, the manufacturer of the AI fluids feels that scrubbing the record really isn't necessary, or even useful, with their fluids as they are designed to do the work by themselves.
This is a good idea: to distinguish between cleaning action and residuals.ThomasOK wrote: In the end it turns out that it is actually simpler to compare cleaning fluids than you would think. This is because the most musical and enjoyable record will be the cleanest record. If one fluid doesn't sound as good as another it is because it is not cleaning as much out of the grooves OR it is leaving something behind. So to test two fluids just clean the same record with both listening each time. A record cleaned with the AI 3 step cleaner will sound worse if it is then "cleaned" with L' Art du Son while a record cleaned with L' Art du Son will sound better after cleaning with the AI 3 step cleaning (or even the 1 step).
I can't help to comment on this one: maybe 50 times is more correct? :-)ThomasOK wrote: According to AI the Ultra Pure water is not just hyperbole - they claim you would have to distill water 48 times to achieve the same level of purity.
I have really never done much in the way of comparison of the machines themselves and certainly no tune method comparisons of different machines. This is one of the reasons I asked if anyone had done a musical comparison of a Keith Monks vs. a VPI or similar as their suction mechanisms are certainly quite different and many swear by the KM type machines. The only direct comment I can make is that I have found the VPI machines to do a much better job than the Nitty Gritty ones and it does seem to me that the bristle brushes as supplied by VPI and Osage Audio (the AI fluid people - they also sell applicator brushes) work better than the applicators that use felt pads. While I have cleaned records on all three VPI machines (HW-16.5, HW-17 & HW-27) I can't honestly say I've noticed any difference. But then I've never really listened for any difference.Charlie1 wrote:Hi Thomas, what's the best cleaning machine you've found on the market today, to combine with the Audio Intelligent fluids? You mention VPI and Hannl. I'm not too keen on buying an old Keith Monks, even though many people love them. I've never cleaned any of my records, so not too clued up on all this. Thanks.