SONDEK BASHING

[Tony Tune-age]

There's a website that simply puts down the Linn Sondek turntable, even with it's current upgrades. Has anybody seen this website, or know why it's so against the Sondek?

http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Linn.html

[Charlie1]

Yeah, I've read a fair bit on that site - he's big into low level information being the key thing to hi-fi as I recall. I doubt he's heard a perfectly setup lp12. Even if he has, then may have been so long in audiophile wilderness that he wouldn't even realise what he's missing. He's also very keen on the Classic Records re-issues of older LPs which says it all :D

I feel sorry for him in a way as I think he's lost and been there myself to varying degrees over the years. If your system is musically unsatisfying then the tempation is to focus on the sounds it makes in order to fix the problem. But that's not where the magic is and whilst the investment in upgrades might reward nicer sounds, it doesn't make for long-term enjoyment. No doubt his system sounds very pleasent in many ways.

[ThomasOK]

That site has been around for some time and isn't worth the paper it isn't written on. The lack of credibility is quite obvious form the comment that the "the Linn's basic design was obsolete after the Goldmund, Townshend Rock and Oracle designs came out". Seeing as the original Oracle was not even as musically enjoyable as a Rega Planar 3 of the time, and in many cases just plain didn't work at all, the idea it obsoleted the LP12 is ludicrous at best. The Goldmund and the Townsend Rock, while they did at least function, were also not able to convey music as realistically and enjoyably as the LP12.

The ridiculous thing is that he relates the success of the LP12 to "marketing skills"! Marketing skills? Certainly not in this country - where the marketing of Linn products is mostly notable by its absence.

Whenever you have a product as popular and as long-lived as the LP12, especially when the company is run by someone who combines vision with a tendency not to suffer fools lightly (no I'm not talking about Steve jobs, but I could be!), you are bound to end up with some people who feel it is their job to "bash the cult". Their jaded viewpoint holds no validity and their comments should be taken with a truckload of salt (as opposed to a grain). :)

[Tony Tune-age]

That site has been around for some time and isn't worth the paper it isn't written on. The lack of credibility is quite obvious form the comment that the "the Linn's basic design was obsolete after the Goldmund, Townshend Rock and Oracle designs came out". The Goldmund and the Townsend Rock, while they did at least function, were also not able to convey music as realistically and enjoyably as the LP12.

Whenever you have a product as popular and as long-lived as the LP12, especially when the company is run by someone who combines vision with a tendency not to suffer fools lightly, you are bound to end up with some people who feel it is their job to "bash the cult". Their jaded viewpoint holds no validity and their comments should be taken with a truckload of salt (as opposed to a grain). :)

For the most part, that's how I felt about that particular website and the people that maintain the website. But I was wondering if that type of negative information prevents people from considering the Sondek over other brands :?: Basically, it just makes me mad that anybody would be so passionate about hating a product that is simply incredible :!:

[skiffle0]

There's a website that simply puts down the Linn Sondek turntable, even with it's current upgrades. Has anybody seen this website, or know why it's so against the Sondek?

http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Linn.html

I have read it before, my mental image of the chap isn't particularly complimentary.
I have no problem with people not liking the Lp12; and do not stick to "linn doctrine" myself - I enjoy the plattamat in preference to the Linn felt, use a Heed Orbit power supply, still have a pre cirkus bearing (late),and am saving for a Sole subchassis :)

I think that you need to take note of his own admissions that he hasn't felt the need to listen to an LP12 for 30 or more years, and was the "best selling VPI dealer in the world in the 1980's"; yet he calls people who question his rant arrogant :shock:

I take it that you enjoy your music, let the "guru" have his day. I am fairly certain that Linn would allow him to post on their forum, I very much doubt that he would show them the same courtesy.

best wishes, Guy.

[Tony Tune-age]

I have read it before, my mental image of the chap isn't particularly complimentary. I have no problem with people not liking the Lp12; and do not stick to "linn doctrine"

I think that you need to take note of his own admissions that he hasn't felt the need to listen to an LP12 for 30 or more years, and was the "best selling VPI dealer in the world in the 1980's"; yet he calls people who question his rant arrogant :shock:

I take it that you enjoy your music, let the "guru" have his day. I am fairly certain that Linn would allow him to post on their forum, I very much doubt that he would show them the same courtesy.

Thanks for the information 8) . I didn't know who the people were that developed the website, or any history regarding their experiences.

[Cymbiosis]

I am fairly certain that Linn would allow him to post on their forum, I very much doubt that he would show them the same courtesy.

best wishes, Guy.

Hi.

Yes, I think they would and I'm sure he wouldn't return the courtesy back.

One really has to wonder about the reasons behind such a website like this.

Anyway, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it and personally he's best to stay with selling his VPIs - I just hope anyone having to listen to him and his wares, will then go away and have a demo at a Linn dealer first before deciding what to do!

Kind regards,

Peter :)

[ThomasOK]

I am fairly certain that Linn would allow him to post on their forum, I very much doubt that he would show them the same courtesy.

best wishes, Guy.

Hi.

Yes, I think they would and I'm sure he wouldn't return the courtesy back.

One really has to wonder about the reasons behind such a website like this.

Anyway, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it and personally he's best to stay with selling his VPIs - I just hope anyone having to listen to him and his wares, will then go away and have a demo at a Linn dealer first before deciding what to do!

Kind regards,

Peter :)

Hi Peter,

Welcome and good to see you on this forum (not that you aren't on enough forums to keep you busy already ).

It is interesting how low overall he rates the VPIs - makes you wonder why he sold so many of them? I guess they were good enough for his customers! :(

[Tony Tune-age]

It is interesting how low overall he rates the VPIs - makes you wonder why he sold so many of them? I guess they were good enough for his customers! :(

To some extent, that's an example of why some audio consumers are so confused about component selection. They don't always know what to believe .

[donuk]

I too had a look at the site. I don't understand why someone would want to put so much effort into discribing something he does not like. Perhaps it is an example of what the psychologists call "reaction formation."

But, being a sucker for a tweak, I tried the experiment of putting a disc of paper, like a large washer, between the platter and sub-platter. I used just a plain sheet of typing paper. It completely killed the sound. Not subtle - awful.

Of course, placing a spacer between the platters would also adjust the VTA, so perhaps that is what some folk are hearing.

All the best
Don

[Tony Tune-age]

But, being a sucker for a tweak, I tried the experiment of putting a disc of paper, like a large washer, between the platter and sub-platter. I used just a plain sheet of typing paper. It completely killed the sound. Not subtle - awful.

Of course, placing a spacer between the platters would also adjust the VTA, so perhaps that is what some folk are hearing.

I never would have thought of tweaking my Sondek in that fashion, primarily because it makes absolutely no sense to me... :!:

[Tony Tune-age]

I don't understand why someone would want to put so much effort into discribing something he does not like.

I agree with that statement. Perhaps his goal is to reduce the number of Sondek turntable sales, by virture of bashing their performance. Although, his approach could possibly work in reverse - and generate more sales. In any case, his website would be comical if it wasn't so mean :!:

[skiffle0]

I too had a look at the site. I don't understand why someone would want to put so much effort into discribing something he does not like. Perhaps it is an example of what the psychologists call "reaction formation."

Don

he wants to be thought of as an/the expert - ego

[SaltyDog]

Nobody bashes a Sondek like Gallagher :lol:

[Tony Tune-age]

Nobody bashes a Sondek like Gallagher :lol:

So far in my experiences with negative turntable opinions, he certainly takes first place :!:

[Tony Tune-age]

Just came accross a website that looks like an official Linn website, but it isn't... :!:

http://www.gb2001.it/sez/area51/sondek- ... ge=RC-Linn

[SaltyDog]

I was making a funny. :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallagher_%28comedian%29

[Tony Tune-age]

Just came accross a website that looks like an official Linn website, but it isn't... :!:

http://www.gb2001.it/sez/area51/sondek- ... ge=RC-Linn

I thought this might be a patent infringement issue...but maybe not :?:

[Tony Tune-age]

I was making a funny. :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallagher_%28comedian%29

That is good... 8)

[ThomasOK]

Just came accross a website that looks like an official Linn website, but it isn't... :!:

http://www.gb2001.it/sez/area51/sondek- ... ge=RC-Linn

I thought this might be a patent infringement issue...but maybe not :?:

I would certainly think it would be. It is pretty blatant in its use of Linn's logo.

[Tony Tune-age]

Just came accross a website that looks like an official Linn website, but it isn't... :!:

http://www.gb2001.it/sez/area51/sondek- ... ge=RC-Linn

I thought this might be a patent infringement issue...but maybe not :?:

I would certainly think it would be. It is pretty blatant in its use of Linn's logo.

Is there any legal action that Linn could take :?: Or will the internet police pursue legal action :?:

[lejonklou]

Arthur Salvatore is a moron on a mission. In my opinon, he's not worth being mentioned, it's all just too far off to debate.

[Cymbiosis]

It is interesting how low overall he rates the VPIs - makes you wonder why he sold so many of them? I guess they were good enough for his customers! :(

To some extent, that's an example of why some audio consumers are so confused about component selection. They don't always know what to believe .

Indeed. That's why I just play them something...... Normally something with a Radikal and watch their surprised expressions. :mrgreen:

KR

Peter

[Charlie1]

Welcome to the forum Peter - nice to see you here.

[Tony Tune-age]

Indeed. That's why I just play them something...... Normally something with a Radikal and watch their surprised expressions. :mrgreen:

Welcome aboard Peter :!: Basically, that's what I do as well. Just play two or three songs, and people realize exactly how special a Sondek turntable truly is, especially when compared to other brands 8) . However, the price usually causes them to do some serious thinking before actually buying...