Playground for practical listening exercises

[ThomasOK]

Judging by listening to the samples on an iMac I would say you don't need 2 LP12's (well, maybe one for monos...).
To me the "old digi" borders on unlistenable. On the iMac the new samples definitely have more groove.

+1, I agree fully. But in addition I will say that I also find the old ana to be quite bad. As soon as I heard the bass I was trying to figure out what was wrong with their instrument. Then I listened to new ana and the music was there and enjoyable. For me the new setup is much better for both types of file. While it does make the digital track more musical it does so for the analog track as well.

[lejonklou]

There is no dilemma here, beck. Only two bad recordings (old) and two that are better (new).

There is no "flesh and blood", "botox", "Audio Note" or "human". Only better and worse.

The importance of keeping it simple - better or worse? - is that the number of details to tune are nearly endless. When you're done with the antiskating, there's tracking weight, VTA, suspension, torques, platter clocking, support, leveling, positioning, materials, thicknesses, dimensions, weights, etc etc etc.

The end result - your musical experience and satisfaction - depends on how many details you can optimise. Therefore: Better or Worse? That's the only question you need to ask yourself.

[beck]

Thank you gentlemen for taking your time to listen and answer. That is the whole point of the playground.

Better or worse. I will keep that in mind but to me unfortunately it is not that simple. At least not with my system. I loose some and gain something else. Maybe I am asking too much of recorded music. Maybe if I had the best system in the world I would be disappointed and go back to my study to play music myself. Who knows?

Once again thank you all and goodnight! :-)

[beck]

Simple modification. Simple question (more or less tuneful). Is the answer simple?

Before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/48nipvxzb9mf5 ... 6.mov?dl=0

After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9xbto1utxkppq ... 9.mov?dl=0

Before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/iaszuw6hsl5uv ... 5.mov?dl=0

After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n7mtl7iy99nd3 ... 1.mov?dl=0

[lejonklou]

Before is more tuneful.

[Spannko]

Before sounds good beck - better than it has for a while :-)

[David Neel]

Here is an experiment:

1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vmpu65tmba6r ... 6.mp4?dl=0

2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7cmdt3pbyg803 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

Comments welcomed! One is my LSNAS, the other is a HAKAI NAS.

[Charlie1]

Well, it's certainly possible to consistently hear differences between the two clips.

I find it easier to follow the entire performance on the first clip.

But the second clip has its own virtues. I like the vocals more and that also draws me in, but in a different way.

On balance, I enjoy the first clip more.

Good sounding setup, with the new speakers.

What's the song? I like it.

[beck]

Here is an experiment:

1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vmpu65tmba6r ... 6.mp4?dl=0

2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7cmdt3pbyg803 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

Comments welcomed! One is my LSNAS, the other is a HAKAI NAS.

You did it! :-). Now I can retire. If you can do it many more should be able to.... ;-).

A great first attempt it is. To listen to and just relax into I may prefer the first clip. Not talking about tunefulness as such (or maybe I am?). Just what I like to listen to without being analytical.

Listening again it is easy to hear the improved sound from the second clip. I actually think that the second clip shows a good improvement in sound without making a mess out of the tune.

[David Neel]

Two more, same comparison, same order:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6wq39tcwwucn ... 7.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5e0ml5l203ion ... 6.mp4?dl=0

[lejonklou]

Here is an experiment:

1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vmpu65tmba6r ... 6.mp4?dl=0

2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7cmdt3pbyg803 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

Comments welcomed! One is my LSNAS, the other is a HAKAI NAS.

Your system sounds really good, David!

I think number 1 is better. 2 may be more articulated, but it doesn't flow as effortlessly as number 1 does.

[lejonklou]

Two more, same comparison, same order:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6wq39tcwwucn ... 7.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5e0ml5l203ion ... 6.mp4?dl=0

This one is REALLY interesting!

I recommend everyone who doubts the musical impact of a NAS to listen to these two clips.

Is the streamer a HAKAI?

If you had said "This is the same piece, played on the same piano, by two different pianists" I would have believed you. The interpretation is completely different to my ears!

I am currently unsure of which is the best, I need to hear them a couple of times more. It's apparent they both have strengths.

[David Neel]

The streamer is my ADS/3.

The HAKAI NAS is running Debian and the N3050N-D2P motherboard, the LSNAS Windows 7, which I have felt in the past is very slightly behind Debian.

[Charlie1]

This is a difficult track for me to use.

I think the second track might be more tuneful. I do like the slightly purer sound.

However, I suspect the first track is the one I preferred last time. Whilst I prefer the more tuneful piano intro in clip 2, once additional instruments join, then I prefer this clip. The performance as a whole is more coherent to my mind. The instruments on the second track seem a bit of a jumble, but only by comparison. But as said before, very close and tricky on this one. I thought the other two clips were very different.

It’s worth mentioning now that myself and Beck occasionally differ in preference to most members. For example, we both prefer Radikal first on the mains block. Since you prefer preamp first then my ‘guess’ is that Fredrik, Tom, tokenbrit, etc. will be more reliable in terms of aligning with your own preferences and be a better guide for you. Sorry to muddy the water.

[David Neel]

So here is a different change:

1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/90f88amphntkl ... 9.mp4?dl=0

2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/s56q2z28guew9 ... 3.mp4?dl=0

[Charlie1]

Yeah, same again, track 2 doesn’t sit well with the way I experience music. I can get into a kind of trance in the first clip, but the second is like a cacophony, by contrast, where I’m constantly being surprised by each note and where is sits in the whole. I do hear clip 2 as more dynamic sounding though, but not my thing.

At the end of the day, you should go with what makes you tick. We are not all the same.

Anyway, enough of my thoughts. I’ll shut up and wait to read what other members think.

[beck]

+1

I prefer the first clip for its better flow.

One piece of advice: look at what you are filming (picture) when making the clips. Let the “picture” be the same as much as possible both times to get an even comparison taking into account that the exact spot you place your microphone matters.

To Lejonklou and Spannko: thank you for your comments on my clips. I have now removed them and will retire from clip making. :-)

[lejonklou]

I agree with the two gentlemen above, number 1 is clearly better.

This was not a comparison between the two NASes, was it?

[Spannko]

Thanks for posting the clips David.

I’m usually in agreement with the mob here, but on this occasion I have a preference for the second clips on both pair 1 and pair 2. Both of the first clips sounded to me as though they were really struggling with the rhythm and tune. The second clips appeared to be better in that respect.

For the 3rd pair of clips I preferred clip 1

The recordings are great too. What did you record them on?

[David Neel]

This was not a comparison between the two NASes, was it?

No it wasn't. And it has shocked me, as the result was not what I had expected. It's only two days since I did the same comparison, with a different source and a different result. And now I'm back listening to vinyl, getting very different results from two days ago, and trying to work out what else has changed....

[Charlie1]

I think it can be useful to get input from us lot, but ultimately, you need to decide which you prefer. I know you're good at that, even if it takes a while. You've now got Spannko preferring the second clip (on the first two tracks at least) so, whichever you choose, you will not be entirely alone. Perhaps opinion will divide further as others share their preferences. So, whilst total agreement would have given you a nice warm fuzzy feeling, there is actually only one person that needs to be happy with the final choice.

[David Neel]

Thanks for posting the clips David.

Thanks for prodding me into doing it! I have learned a lot today, and am still trying to understand the final pair...

For the first two pairs, option one was the HAKAI NAS, option 2 the LSNAS. I'm going to do another recording of the other change tomorrow, so won't reveal all just yet.

The recordings are great too. What did you record them on?

Samsung Galaxy A5

[David Neel]

I think it can be useful to get input from us lot, but ultimately, you need to decide which you prefer. I know you're good at that, even if it takes a while. You've now got Spannko preferring the second clip (on the first two tracks at least) so, whichever you choose, you will not be entirely alone. Perhaps opinion will divide further as others share their preferences. So, whilst total agreement would have given you a nice warm fuzzy feeling, there is actually only one person that needs to be happy with the final choice.

I was very, very sceptical about this as an evaluation tool, but I think I'm starting to understand. There is a lot that is lost on these low quality recordings, and some of this is material to the musicality, e.g. concert hall acoustics. Expect a classical vinyl comparison tomorrow, if I can co-ordinate dropping the needle and pressing record...

[tokenbrit]

Thanks for posting the clips David.

.. I have a preference for the second clips on both pair 1 and pair 2. Both of the first clips sounded to me as though they were really struggling with the rhythm and tune. The second clips appeared to be better in that respect.

Agreed. I got the impression that clip 1 was trying to sound more flowing whereas clip 2 was more confident with the timing and, therefore, with the piece & the performance.

[beck]

Two more, same comparison, same order:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6wq39tcwwucn ... 7.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5e0ml5l203ion ... 6.mp4?dl=0

In this set I hear the intention from the musician more clearly from the first clip. The small “waves” at the beginning has an increase/decrease feeling that the second clip does not convey to the same degree.