Re: GIGAPORT HD/HD+
Posted: 2020-01-22 19:00
Sorry for opening up this can of worms again;)
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/
jewa,jewa wrote: ↑2020-01-22 09:13From the GIGAPORT eX specs:The GIGAPORT eX is Thunderbolt3/USB-C and can carry more juice; that will work great with Macs. Macs can also now play at 24/196. We'll have to wait 6 or 7 weeks to hear how it sounds.
USB 3.1 Audio Interface with USB-C connector (different connection cables included)
USB 2.0 compatible
So no worries regarding motherboard.
(Also I have just asked Jenving about any plans making a USB-C cable.)
Accuphase has a different and very sophisticated approach to DAC design than any other DAC manufacturer that I'm aware of. The Australians use it for computer audio.Ron The Mon wrote: ↑The $32,000 Accuphase DC-950 DAC FairPlayMotty alluded to is only USB 2.0 capable. It may sound good with their CD transport connection. But USB 2.0? Seriously!? For 30K?From the GIGAPORT eX specs:
USB 3.1 Audio Interface with USB-C connector (different connection cables included)
USB 2.0 compatible
So no worries regarding motherboard.
(Also I have just asked Jenving about any plans making a USB-C cable.)
Ron The Mon
This is indeed a very hot topic.
Indeed hot. And there are two really important things to keep in mind:matthias wrote: ↑2020-01-23 11:07This is indeed a very hot topic.
Emile from Taiko Audio claims that the highest specs USB3.1 output of his Extreme server sounds best.
Some other very experienced people claim that some motherboards with higher CPUs sound better than these with lower CPUs but only when they are supplied with excellent power supplies.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topi ... nt-1014096
Matt
As far as CPU power goes I've found the audiophilestyle forum less reliable than the Australian forum. And the vast majority of commercial motherboard streamers seem to be based on either Atoms or the J series of low power CPUs from Intel, e.g. the lauded 12k Belgian player is based as far as I can see on an Asrock Intel J series processor and otherwise largely follows the Australian design type.Emile from Taiko Audio claims that the highest specs USB3.1 output of his Extreme server sounds best.
Some other very experienced people claim that some motherboards with higher CPUs sound better than these with lower CPUs but only when they are supplied with excellent power supplies.
ad 1. Of course is evaluation with the tune method mandatory.lejonklou wrote: ↑2020-01-23 23:16 Indeed hot. And there are two really important things to keep in mind:
1. What are they listening for and how are they judging better/worse?
2. What does the entire digital replay design look like? Depending on the approach the answer to "what's the optimal property of X?" can vary a lot.
Let us consider the Australian design type, the pick of the bunch is Antipodes Audio.FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2020-01-23 23:28 As far as CPU power goes I've found the audiophilestyle forum less reliable than the Australian forum. And the vast majority of commercial motherboard streamers seem to be based on either Atoms or the J series of low power CPUs from Intel, e.g. the lauded 12k Belgian player is based as far as I can see on an Asrock Intel J series processor and otherwise largely follows the Australian design type.
I think the pick of the bunch from the Southern hemisphere is probably the final build by Tasso etc. or the best SotM model. I think they compared the two and they were very close.Let us consider the Australian design type, the pick of the bunch is Antipodes Audio.
The best sounding combo is CX/EX.
The CX is a server with a 6 core i7 processor, even the EX has a quad core Celeron processor.
For Roon for example is a high powered CPU server favorable, it is like driving a high powered car in demanding traffic circumstances, more safe, more fun:-)
Matt
I amended my post above to add USB 1.1, which is what the GIGAPORT HD+ is. In that case, you shouldn't find USB 3.0 better in any way over USB 2.0 as the protocol forces 1.1/2.0 to be used. Have you used an actual USB 3.0 DAC with HAKAI tried into both types of connectors?lejonklou wrote: ↑2020-01-23 09:48 Ron, my experience with digital audio points in a different direction than what you're suggesting in your last post.
Higher speed is not better for audio. The opposite is not necessarily true either, but more likely. On the HAKAIs that I built, the USB 2 ports sound better than USB 3. And the lower the clock frequency of the motherboard, the more musical it sounded.
Then you confuse current capacity with quality. The DAC doesn't need much power. The reason why it's good is a couple of things, one of them being that the transfer is isochronous.
They are married to each other via USB protocols, especially the isochronous audio transfer protocol, so how does that not matter? Quality is also a function of connectors and cables. The standard for cables and connectors in USB-C is much higher than any other USB type.This is also why the motherboards play such a dramatic role in the performance of HAKAI - it's married to the DAC and will influence its performance both through the clock and the USB power quality (not quantity).
Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-01-25 00:09Fashion and compatibility with other equipment which uses USB C. The cost differences will be very small indeed.lejonklou wrote: ↑2020-01-23 09:48 Ron, my experience with digital audio points in a different direction than what you're suggesting in your last post.
Why is ESI now using a USB-C connector and USB 3.1 protocol on the new GIGAPORT eX model? That connector and the added adapter cable (and/or dongle) will add costs.
Ron The Mon
My new phone uses USB C rather than microUSB. I get zero extra functionality - I simply had to buy yet more cables.
Connector, new software, iOS app, iPad OS app, extra cable/dongle, combined will not be very small.FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2020-01-25 00:19Fashion and compatibility with other equipment which uses USB-C. The cost differences will be very small indeed.Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-01-25 00:09 Why is ESI now using a USB-C connector and USB 3.1 protocol on the new GIGAPORT eX model? That connector and the added adapter cable (and/or dongle) will add costs.
Which phone? Connecting a USB-C to USB-C dedicated cable increases power charging and data transfer speed into a USB-C computer. It is a LOT faster, I have done it.My new phone uses USB-C rather than micro-USB. I get zero extra functionality - I simply had to buy yet more cables.
My last three phones have had fast charge. That's going back five or six years. This is a Xiaomi Redmi Pro.Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-01-25 00:42Connector, new software, iOS app, iPad OS app, extra cable/dongle, combined will not be very small.FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2020-01-25 00:19Fashion and compatibility with other equipment which uses USB-C. The cost differences will be very small indeed.Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-01-25 00:09 Why is ESI now using a USB-C connector and USB 3.1 protocol on the new GIGAPORT eX model? That connector and the added adapter cable (and/or dongle) will add costs.
Which phone? Connecting a USB-C to USB-C dedicated cable increases power charging and data transfer speed into a USB-C computer. It is a LOT faster, I have done it.My new phone uses USB-C rather than micro-USB. I get zero extra functionality - I simply had to buy yet more cables.
Ron The Mon
Agree,Ron The Mon wrote: ↑2020-01-25 00:42 Connecting a USB-C to USB-C dedicated cable increases power charging and data transfer speed into a USB-C computer. It is a LOT faster, I have done it.
It is also a functionality improvement to be able to connect a cable to your phone in the dark or while driving; no need to look down at the proper orientation. It is also less affected by dirt or damage.
ThomasOK wrote: ↑2020-01-25 16:56 As usual there are lies, damn lies and statistics. I looked at Ios vs. Android market share and the first one to pop up indeed showed a worldwide split of 15% to 85% but the next two analyses, which were from different companies, showed a 25% to 75% share. Going in a bit more depth Ios is more popular in the US and Japan and has been more popular in the UK, Ireland and Sweden although now those three are pretty much evenly split. Availability of apps? Well, as of December 2018 Android had 2.6 million apps and Ios had 2 million. Yep, Android has more but how important is that once both are over 2 million apps - how many do you use? I imagine if you went deeper there are likely to be significant differences in apps in different languages so availability of useable apps probably depends on where you are.
As for the idea that all the app writers going to Android due to the number of users, you left out the most important fact that is likely to figure into which platform you design apps for - how much money you will make. On this front the resource I found (a blog about designing apps for mobile platforms) had this statement: "In the 3rd quarter of 2019, Apple’s iOS apps generated $14.2 billion, whereas Android apps earned $7.7 billion through the Google Play Store." This probably is also due to app downloads of 28.4 billion on the Apple store vs. over 20 billion for the Google Store according to App Annie. So there are a few more statistics that would tend to indicate that the playing filed is not as lopsided as some might think. Just sayin' ;-)
Interesting reading Thomas and thanks for the stats update! My iPad usage is minimal - I deeply regret not buying an Android tablet instead. Here's why. On Android you can go to the app store and get numerous streaming apps at zero cost or a small cost for the premium version - say HiFi Cast. Sure ios has lots of streaming apps - most of the ones I downloaded are looking for the user to stream from iTunes. In my book that's very limited streaming capability - my iTunes days were over when I stopped using the iPod Classic. The ability to stream flac files from a NAS is limited to (as far as I could see) apps that would be considered substandard in the Play store.ThomasOK wrote: ↑2020-01-25 16:56 Availability of apps? Well, as of December 2018 Android had 2.6 million apps and Ios had 2 million. Yep, Android has more but how important is that once both are over 2 million apps - how many do you use? I imagine if you went deeper there are likely to be significant differences in apps in different languages so availability of useable apps probably depends on where you are.
I dug out the source of my global market share data which was sourced from statista.com and was second quarter 2018.
The Mac Mini is discussed partly because Ron The Mon found its headphone output capable of delivering music with outstanding quality. Therefore it's of high interest to the forum and not a distraction.FairPlayMotty wrote: ↑2020-01-27 10:13 It's worth adding that the forum is being distracted by Mac Mini discussions. There's already a separate Mac Mini with ESI Gigaport HD + forum.