Thanks for coming, Broccoli!
It will be really nice to see you too!
Matthias: Thanks for your interest! Yes, certainly pictures will be put up as soon as possible. At present the enclosures are not yet finished, so any pictures at this point will not be showing the final product. The only accurate pictures possible are of the circuit boards. :mrgreen:
Regarding the product pages I will again have to say: As soon as possible!
New Lejonklou Preamplifier
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Google translates pretty well, especially Fredrik's posts in particular (???), but yes, we want to know here!!!It is a pity that I am not able to understand swedish.......
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... n%26sa%3DG
Get some pretty weird wording though - took a while to realise 'lead' was the translation for 'pre-amp'
....and Fredrik, when is the SE version coming out? :D
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2008-11-28 14:31, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks to everyone for a very nice evening!!
Essentially we made four adequate comparisons during the evening (and later some others just for fun, but not as careful):
1. Majik DS with digital volume to Akurate 2200, K400 and Akurate 242.
2. Majik DS to Majik Kontrol (same playback as above).
3. Majik DS to Kikkin (same playback as above).
4. Majik DS to Akurate Kontrol (same playback as above).
My impression is that everyone agreed number 1 was not too exciting. It was the first time I heard the internal volume control of the Majik DS and my impression was that the sound was quite clean and ok. There was a "directness" in it that felt both positive and at the same time a bit flat. More importantly; it wasn't fun, the music was rather lifeless.
Adding a Majik Kontrol (2) resulted a noticeable improvement. I'm quite sure that a more modest preamp will also improve the musical qualities, but I don't know exactly where the lower limit is. At some point (Kolektor?), the internal volume of the Majik DS will be preferable.
I also think - and please do object if I'm wrong - that everyone agreed that replacing the Majik Kontrol with a Kikkin (3) resulted in an improvement.
When Kikkin was compared with Akurate Kontrol (4), opinions became mixed. I will let others fill in what they thought of this.
The Kikkin used last night was not from the first production batch, instead it was the final prototype. The circuit boards are identical so I'd say this is the performance you can expect. Every additional step up in performance can be regarded as a bonus.
Like all Lejonklou products, it will be upgradeable, both hardware and software.
Essentially we made four adequate comparisons during the evening (and later some others just for fun, but not as careful):
1. Majik DS with digital volume to Akurate 2200, K400 and Akurate 242.
2. Majik DS to Majik Kontrol (same playback as above).
3. Majik DS to Kikkin (same playback as above).
4. Majik DS to Akurate Kontrol (same playback as above).
My impression is that everyone agreed number 1 was not too exciting. It was the first time I heard the internal volume control of the Majik DS and my impression was that the sound was quite clean and ok. There was a "directness" in it that felt both positive and at the same time a bit flat. More importantly; it wasn't fun, the music was rather lifeless.
Adding a Majik Kontrol (2) resulted a noticeable improvement. I'm quite sure that a more modest preamp will also improve the musical qualities, but I don't know exactly where the lower limit is. At some point (Kolektor?), the internal volume of the Majik DS will be preferable.
I also think - and please do object if I'm wrong - that everyone agreed that replacing the Majik Kontrol with a Kikkin (3) resulted in an improvement.
When Kikkin was compared with Akurate Kontrol (4), opinions became mixed. I will let others fill in what they thought of this.
The Kikkin used last night was not from the first production batch, instead it was the final prototype. The circuit boards are identical so I'd say this is the performance you can expect. Every additional step up in performance can be regarded as a bonus.
Like all Lejonklou products, it will be upgradeable, both hardware and software.
Bettering the Majik Kontrol for less than a third of the price is a great achievement Fredrik.
To then go and match the performance of the Akurate is quite startling considering the price difference. I don't think you necessarily need to better the Akurate, simply matching it is amazing when you consider its approximately one seventh of the cost!
To then go and match the performance of the Akurate is quite startling considering the price difference. I don't think you necessarily need to better the Akurate, simply matching it is amazing when you consider its approximately one seventh of the cost!
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Music Lover
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- Location: In front of Lejonklou/JBL/Ofil
Agree, Kikkin and AK are VERY close.lejonklou wrote: When Kikkin was compared with Akurate Kontrol (4), opinions became mixed. I will let others fill in what they thought of this.
Some musical aspects are better in Akurate (treble), some better in Kikkin (bas). Kikkin had a nice groove but the treble in Akurate made more sense.
They sounded similar.
Knowing that the demo Kikkin wasn't fine tuned (as Fredrik normally do but didn't had the possibility on this pre) I'm sure Kikkin going to better Akurate!
WELL done Fredrik, this going to be a massive success, MASSIVE :!: :!:
Reading about how good the internal Majik DS volume was, it was a BIG surprise hearing how unmusical it really was. Or really...a big surprise that not all persons testing it hear.
It really killed the music.
Majik Kontrol is a LOT better! Majik&Sneaky DS really deserve a good pre.
And the jump up to AK/Kikkin is again large.
btw, did I mention how bloody GREAT Kikkin is?
It's all about musical understanding!
Yes - Kikkin is a LOT cheaper than AK..... but have anyone noticed what an AK can do:
Don't get me wrong, this is not a bashing against Mr. Lejonklou and the Kikkin - but things should be put in perspectice - comparing prices. You get a LOT more (usefull) features with an AK. But then again, i haven't heard anyone saying the AK was expensive, just that the Kikkin was cheap :D .
Don't get me wrong, this is not a bashing against Mr. Lejonklou and the Kikkin - but things should be put in perspectice - comparing prices. You get a LOT more (usefull) features with an AK. But then again, i haven't heard anyone saying the AK was expensive, just that the Kikkin was cheap :D .
Last edited by Linntek on 2008-11-29 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
ML: Thanks for the kind words!I'm sure Kikkin going to better Akurate!
I don't guarantee that Kikkin will be better than AK, but I agree that they perform on about the same level.
This I find really interesting. I don't know the circuits of AK in detail, but it's easy to see that the Kikkin is differently designed in every aspect. They probably don't have a single component in common.They sounded similar.
That they still sound quite similar means that it's the method of evaluation that results in similar performance. Even when the starting points are totally different. And in line with this, I can easily show how the sound of a Kikkin can be completely changed just by replacing two resistors.
Linntek: Yes, you are correct. The AK is a complete preamplifier with lots of functions.
The Kikkin is only the heart of a preamplifier. Designed for those who only need the heart of a preamplifier.
Last edited by lejonklou on 2008-11-29 21:59, edited 2 times in total.
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Music Lover
- Very active member
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- Location: In front of Lejonklou/JBL/Ofil
You are right, I can't be sure. But the early Kikkin prototypes (all made with different technologies and components) were not as good and sounded quite different as well. The better the Kikkin got, the more I felt it resembled the Linn preamps in sound.
I just thought this pattern was interesting since the constrution of Kikkin and AK differs so much. It's very frequent in HiFi - and especially HiFi magazines - that generalisations are made from how things are constructed: Switch mode power supplies sound like this, conventional ones like that. Discrete components sound like this, integrated circuits like that. Etc. My opinion is that this focus on hardware is wrong and that the end result will most of all depend on what the designer tries to accomplish.
I just thought this pattern was interesting since the constrution of Kikkin and AK differs so much. It's very frequent in HiFi - and especially HiFi magazines - that generalisations are made from how things are constructed: Switch mode power supplies sound like this, conventional ones like that. Discrete components sound like this, integrated circuits like that. Etc. My opinion is that this focus on hardware is wrong and that the end result will most of all depend on what the designer tries to accomplish.
Sorry I'm a bit late with my impressions. Mostly I agree with Music Lover above. But I actually thought that the Kikkin was better than the Akurate Kontrol! In the first comparison, they were pretty equal, in the second comparison the Kikkin was better. The Akurate Kontrol was correct and rigid sounding while the Kikkin was musical and swinging. But it was a pretty even match, with differences much smaller than between Akurate and Majik Kontrol. Considering the Kikkin wasn't fully tuned this was really impressive!
I haven't seen this mentioned here, so I thought I would mention how you interact with the Kikkin. The volume is controlled by a standard Linn (any Phillips RC5) remote. The volume is controlled in steps between 0-100. Since there is no display, only a LED, the LED changes color for every decade. (Except for 0-30?) This really is a brilliant way to clearly indicate volume level! I think this will work really well in practice. It's fast to learn the colors and know the approximate level it is at. To be exact, you can do as Fredrik did, step to when it changes color and count button presses after that. UC: Press vol+ to just get into the 50'ies, (i.e. level 50), then press vol+ five times to get to 55. Very user friendly, considering the single LED.
How it looks? According to Fredrik it will look very similar to a Kinki. Only exception is the small LED on the front. This is turned off after 10 sec when you have stopped using the remote. Thanks for that Fredrik, I hate bright LED's! I didn't see the IR eye on the front, so I have no clue to where that is. The back was just the regular in/out RCA's and power in. There was also a standby switch.
A truly stunning product for all that doesn't need more than one input. The great thing is that I think we're all winners in this, regardless of what we end up choosing, Lejonklou or Linn. Thanks Fredrik for great products and for pushing Linn!
I haven't seen this mentioned here, so I thought I would mention how you interact with the Kikkin. The volume is controlled by a standard Linn (any Phillips RC5) remote. The volume is controlled in steps between 0-100. Since there is no display, only a LED, the LED changes color for every decade. (Except for 0-30?) This really is a brilliant way to clearly indicate volume level! I think this will work really well in practice. It's fast to learn the colors and know the approximate level it is at. To be exact, you can do as Fredrik did, step to when it changes color and count button presses after that. UC: Press vol+ to just get into the 50'ies, (i.e. level 50), then press vol+ five times to get to 55. Very user friendly, considering the single LED.
How it looks? According to Fredrik it will look very similar to a Kinki. Only exception is the small LED on the front. This is turned off after 10 sec when you have stopped using the remote. Thanks for that Fredrik, I hate bright LED's! I didn't see the IR eye on the front, so I have no clue to where that is. The back was just the regular in/out RCA's and power in. There was also a standby switch.
A truly stunning product for all that doesn't need more than one input. The great thing is that I think we're all winners in this, regardless of what we end up choosing, Lejonklou or Linn. Thanks Fredrik for great products and for pushing Linn!
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rowlandhills
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Fredrik - Does this mean that you'll be launching a UK version of the "Power One" as well?lejonklou wrote:Testing UK power cords at the moment. The best model will be fitted to the UK version of Kikkin.
As there are a lot of possible cords and lengths, the UK Kikkin release might be a tad later than the Euro (Shuko) version - which starts shipping in a few weeks.
I'd probably be interested in 4 of them if you did something at a similar price to the Shuko version...
KRDSM, Tundra to 242s
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
Thanks to your input, Linnofil, I managed to squeeze in a last minute production change regarding the volume LED: It is now less bright and more pleasant to the eye thanks to the addition of an optical filter between the LED and the emitting hole on the front.
It's correct that the volume is indicated by a colour. Each step is 1 dB and the range is from 0 (not mute, but very very low) to 100. Volume 80 is unity gain. Mute is indicated by the LED flashing slowly.
The colours are as follows, from highest to lowest:
90 to 100 - RED
80 to 89 - ORANGE
70 to 79 - YELLOW
60 to 69 - GREEN
50 to 59 - CYAN
40 to 49 - BLUE
30 to 39 - VIOLET
20 to 29 - DARK VIOLET
0 to 19 - VERY DARK VIOLET
There is actually a second hole, just beside the LED, where the IR receiver is mounted. It is difficult to see on a black enclosure, unless you look closely. There is no remote control supplied with the Kikkin, but it works with all remotes that uses Philips RC5 standard (Linn, Naim, Marantz, Philips and several others). The Kikkin only responds to the amplifier commands +VOL, -VOL and Mute.
I have received excellent help from Linntek on this forum with the programming of the Kikkin. Thanks to him it's really smooth and easy to operate.
It's correct that the volume is indicated by a colour. Each step is 1 dB and the range is from 0 (not mute, but very very low) to 100. Volume 80 is unity gain. Mute is indicated by the LED flashing slowly.
The colours are as follows, from highest to lowest:
90 to 100 - RED
80 to 89 - ORANGE
70 to 79 - YELLOW
60 to 69 - GREEN
50 to 59 - CYAN
40 to 49 - BLUE
30 to 39 - VIOLET
20 to 29 - DARK VIOLET
0 to 19 - VERY DARK VIOLET
There is actually a second hole, just beside the LED, where the IR receiver is mounted. It is difficult to see on a black enclosure, unless you look closely. There is no remote control supplied with the Kikkin, but it works with all remotes that uses Philips RC5 standard (Linn, Naim, Marantz, Philips and several others). The Kikkin only responds to the amplifier commands +VOL, -VOL and Mute.
I have received excellent help from Linntek on this forum with the programming of the Kikkin. Thanks to him it's really smooth and easy to operate.
No current plans for a UK Power One.rowlandhills wrote:Fredrik - Does this mean that you'll be launching a UK version of the "Power One" as well?
Actually, the Euro (Shuko) version of Kikkin does not use a Power One. After a lot of trial and error I found a cord that sounds slightly better with the power supply used in Kikkin.
I have come to understand that in part, the power cord can be regarded as one end of the power supply. Which means that if you make certain changes to the power supply, you can't be certain that the previously best cord will still be the best.
But regardless of how you change the power supply, it seems there are still only a few cords that sound really good. So the cords do have a quality in themselves. Hope that made sense, if not just ask.
There has now been an addition to the Kikkin remote control command set: The user can set the Kikkin to also respond to the TV remote commands +VOL, -VOL and Mute (RC5 standard).lejonklou wrote:The Kikkin only responds to the amplifier commands +VOL, -VOL and Mute.
The reson for this addition is that there are several nice and cheap remotes available, but usually they only send TV commands. Now they are possible to use with the Kikkin!
Here's an example: http://www.netonnet.se/index.asp?iid=104045
Universal remotes that can handle amplifier remote commands are more expensive and often have lots of buttons.
Tack så mycket lejonklou! :D I love sweden, I really miss it... (visited last year), we have family in Sollentuna!lejonklou wrote:Welcome dastrix!
Photographs will come very soon. I have promised to deliver the first Kikkin's before Christmas, and I intend to keep that.
Since I don't yet have any specific Australian power cords, you will need to fit a plug. But that shouldn't be a problem.
That is fine, if it uses a 220 to 240V power supply, we can use a standard Aussie cord. Ie: All Linn Products work perfectly from the UK in Australia!
I look forward to seeing your product, how do we go about pre-ordering/listening?
The power cords are attached to the enclosure on Kikkin, Slipsik and Kinki. Due to this, you need to chop off and replace the plug at the end of the power cord.
I can send a Kikkin to you or to your retailer, if he is interested. If you're not happy, you can send it back within 2 weeks for a full refund.
Pm or email me directly and we can arrange the details.
I can send a Kikkin to you or to your retailer, if he is interested. If you're not happy, you can send it back within 2 weeks for a full refund.
Pm or email me directly and we can arrange the details.
So my misstake on the Swedish forum in thinking that the above remote could control the Kikkin (when it couldn't) actually lead to the fact that it now can be controlled by it? Interesting, and a great addition to the Kikkin! I hope that this new SW option and the optical filter hasn't slowed you down in bringing the Kikkin to the market.lejonklou wrote:There has now been an addition to the Kikkin remote control command set: The user can set the Kikkin to also respond to the TV remote commands +VOL, -VOL and Mute (RC5 standard).
...
Here's an example: http://www.netonnet.se/index.asp?iid=104045
dastrix, you don't need to listen. Just order it! :mrgreen: It really is a "No Brainer" for anyone not needing more than one input. You could soon have the best reasonably priced preamp in Australia!